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  1. #1
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Default Underpowered: a Feedback only thread

    In 2014 we initiated the Great Balancing Plan with our Executive Producer Severlin. Turbine had recently polled us about the state of balance in the game, and we had responded that: i) there were severe imbalanced (classes, ranged vs melee, light vs heavy armor), ii) that it was not fun to play an UP character. To answer these concerns, Severlin initiated an ambitious buffing plan that has, over the course of the last 5 years, revamped every single class in the game along with numerous systems (PRR, melee power, sneak attack, reaper).

    Whether the game is more balanced now than in 2014 is up to debate, but the overall state of the game is not the purpose of these thread. I would like this thread to allow players to, undisturbed, explain what they think is currently underpowered and why. This could include PrEs, feats, classes, abilities, weapons, fighting styles, items, or whatever you feel is currently underpowered.

    The goal of this is for the devs to be able to look over our feedback and consider it. For this reason, I want to ask every single poster to subscribe to this very simple posting rule. I am not a mod, so I can only ask you to please play nice.

    • Only post following the template below. No other posts should be added to the thread. If you agree with someone, copy their message and repost it. If you disagree, feel free to start your own thread about it. If you feel this thread is great / stupid / flawed, feel free to PM me or start your own thread about it.



    Posting template:

    What:
    Why:
    Further comments / suggestions:

  2. #2
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Default An example

    What:
    The Legendary Glittering Waistwrap
    Why:
    Mainly, the Melody:Bulwark effect is insignificant.
    Suggestions:
    Buff or change the effect to something else. Following the template of the new fate singer, perhaps have two effects: i) lower bonus for full party, ii) double that bonus for the person wearing it. Something like 20/40 or so, for example.
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 09-10-2019 at 03:08 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default

    What: Sunder
    Why: The effect is insignificant. Not worth putting on hotbar.
    Further comments / suggestions: Add minor PRR debuff or vulnerability.

  4. #4
    Community Member leesun's Avatar
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    Default

    What: Henshin Mystic
    Why: It is alright to delve into for melee power, but as an actual 41+ point tree why make a staff monk when can make a staff rogue? It's almost as though what we have is a Frankenstein's monster in which staff fighting has been forcibly put into a pre that isn't focused around staff fighting.
    Suggestions: Remove staff fighting from Henshin Mystic, and focus more around the force//fire sla gimmick. Make Monkey Shen tree that is focused on staff fighting. Would fit thematically as both Henshin Mystic and Monkey Shen are from Oriental Adventures.

  5. #5
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
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    Default

    What: Battle Engineer (Artificer Tree)
    Why: Its Tier 5 and Core 6 is rougly equal to Inquisitive' Core 4 (by itself)
    Suggestion: Maybe make the Tier 5 of BE have the expanded Crit Range and increased multiplier? Maybe make the Core 6 of BE add Ranged/Melee Alacrity or Double Shot/Double Strike


    What: Warforged Race or Bladeforged Race
    Why: Armor costs a feat
    Suggestion: Put Mythril or Adamantium Body into the Warforged/Bladeforged Racial Tree

    What: Mechanic (Rogue) needs Conjure Bolts
    Why: It is a ranged class that does not have the ability to conjure bolts
    Suggestion: Allow Mechanics to expend trap parts to make elemental bolts or just regular bolts. If they can make bombs...they should be able to make bolts.
    "Hireling" and "Hjealer"
    Member of THACO on Ghallanda

  6. #6
    Community Member Potatofasf's Avatar
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    Default

    What:
    All outdated named itens, pré-Ravenloft and Sharn

    Why:
    They are irrelevant, not worthy using or farm for. A bunch load of content wasting hardware space. Most of them are Bound to Character. Some itens aren't match for news itens on Level 6 (White Plume Mountain Loot), 7 (Red Fens Revamped Loots), 8 (Slavers) and 10 (Ravenloft Loots).
    I.e. Sands Loots, GH Loots, Storm Horn Loots, Wheelon Loots

    Further comments / suggestions:

    First of all, make them on par with the new game reality, Prefix+Suffix+New standard effect+Augment Slot+Special effect. Second reduce de min level to usage. Third Set Bonus. Forth make them at least competitive with the same level loot cited above.
    No Signature...

  7. #7

    Default

    What:
    Casual/new players
    Why:
    There are no PUGs below Reaper
    Suggestions:
    Since PUGs overwhelmingly favor Reaper/whatever the highest difficulty and/or current reward system (BB, Reaper, farm favor/gear/past lives), revamp the LFG/LFM system (not to mention friends list and the whole Adventure Compendium) to make it easier for those who want to advance while at less than Reaper-level group-ready competence/comfort level to find people to group with while they work their way up. Give people who aren't ready to commit to a guild (or who are still looking for the right fit) a path to advance that isn't just "solo till you can run with the elites"
    Last edited by Arianrhod; 09-10-2019 at 07:22 AM.

  8. #8
    Community Member legendkilleroll's Avatar
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    Default

    What: Repeating xbow

    Why: Inquisitive released

    Suggestion: Realistically, im not sure as it cant be on par with inq as $ plus inq already too strong. Unrealistically, remove inq from game and distributes its power to repeaters/bows :P



    What: Random loot, especially weapons

    Why: Apart from low levels i cant remember last time i even bother to look at them, not asking for them to compete with raid ones but vendor trash or left in chest is not what i want. Dont see why u cant get super lucky on a good roll and have a great endgame weapon.

    Suggestion: Id like to see a return of the old enchantments from years ago, "Thousand suns" "Obscenity" to name a few, then with the hundread ingredients we have, be able to make them sentient.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post

    What: Warforged Race or Bladeforged Race
    Why: Armor costs a feat
    Suggestion: Put Mythril or Adamantium Body into the Warforged/Bladeforged Racial Tree
    ditto
    ditto plus mithril sucks
    suggestion: Free body feat at level 1, add a medium option, really increase the dodge cap on mithril.

    Quote Originally Posted by legendkilleroll View Post
    What: Random loot, especially weapons

    Why: Apart from low levels i cant remember last time i even bother to look at them, not asking for them to compete with raid ones but vendor trash or left in chest is not what i want. Dont see why u cant get super lucky on a good roll and have a great endgame weapon.

    Suggestion: Id like to see a return of the old enchantments from years ago, "Thousand suns" "Obscenity" to name a few, then with the hundread ingredients we have, be able to make them sentient.
    ditto
    ditto
    suggestion: random loot should have a chance to scale higher than crafted/named levels. Named items are much easier to get than a random with the right combo of effects, random should have a small chance to scale higher at all levels including cap. Loot bonus + gem +map +chest blesser in highest level content should match or rarely beat newest raid level of effects, not every time but possible. I remember having lots of fun on loot bonus weekends with a chest blesser chasing +4 tomes in DD. For weapons: rare chance of improved crit profile.

    What: Bows
    Why: the iconic ranged weapon and it's worse than everything but throwinq (excluding shuriken).
    suggestion: Every viable ranged option has gone full-on barrage of shots. Bow is already super slow and can't compete. I'd like to see something unique, rather than ramp up the speed.
    1. many new enchanted returning arrows options like the summon from void.
    2. Revamp archer's focus to add special effects for bows. I like the idea of never miss. To-hit has become much more important in legendary content. If when standing (ie archer's focus active) bows never missed that would be a unique advantage that isn't just more speed/shots/etc. (balanced by bow speed and no IPS)

    What: radiant servant
    Why: the worst tree (I was going to say possibly but... it is)
    suggestion: Any ability that has 3 ranks and is 2 AP change to 1 ap. Change aura to core 4, fill out T5 with something to boost TU, temp HP, and a very long duration heal over time. Boost the stat in capstone. Improve scaling of core 5, perhaps x3 or x4. Fix mighty turning to first apply turn then apply kill, so it works on deathwarded mobs. Add spell power scaling light damage to attacks and spell casts somewhere in the tree like spiritual retribution in ES (maybe in cores like pally KotC).
    Last edited by Cantor; 09-10-2019 at 08:13 AM.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    In 2014 we initiated the Great Balancing Plan with our Executive Producer Severlin. Turbine had recently polled us about the state of balance in the game, and we had responded that: i) there were severe imbalanced [...]

    Posting template:
    What: Pure ranger using long/shortbows fighting style 100% of the time
    Why: Mechanics, Inquisitive, 8 rogue/8 fighter/4 artificer kind of builds 4+ x more DPS
    Suggestion: Make Manyshot cool down the same as the cool down for finger of death: or just eliminate the cool down; and surprisingly, its not overpowered considered the many inquisitive/mechanics running around with dual hand crossbows, or the many master of fire/earth maximized empowered intensified emboldened meteor throwing sorcerers.

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  11. #11
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Default

    What: F2P classes

    Why: P2P classes are made too OP to stimulate sales

    Further comments / suggestions: P2P classes can be made more powerful by 10% using the scaling mechanisms without having to make it so powerful it needs to be nerfed later on due to being on its own playing field.
    Historically: If every melee nerf after each melee class revamp was reverted back to its pre-nerf version, which melee build(s) are OP in the current meta?

  12. #12
    Community Member CSQ's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    What: F2P classes

    Why: P2P classes are made too OP to stimulate sales

    Further comments / suggestions: P2P classes can be made more powerful by 10% using the scaling mechanisms without having to make it so powerful it needs to be nerfed later on due to being on its own playing field.
    Sorry, I know this is not in the format, but can you clarify your comment's suggestions? Do you mean that F2P classes should be made more powerful by scaling? Do you mean that P2P classes should have increased dungeon scaling, effectively making the game more difficult for them which brings them into parity with F2P? The suggestion as it reads doesn't make sense to me.
    I primarily play Zunzyne Siegemaker, and am the guild master of Ares Macrotechnology on Ghallanda.
    Reaper Experience Calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ewE/edit#gid=0 (out of date as of U42.4, needs testing for new values)

  13. #13
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    What: Enhance Pay to win

    Why: I need to be able to solo all raid

    Further comments / suggestions:
    It takes a long time to find Raid teammates.Very long
    Many people lack the Riad experience or not speak English

  14. #14
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CSQ View Post
    Sorry, I know this is not in the format, but can you clarify your comment's suggestions? Do you mean that F2P classes should be made more powerful by scaling? Do you mean that P2P classes should have increased dungeon scaling, effectively making the game more difficult for them which brings them into parity with F2P? The suggestion as it reads doesn't make sense to me.
    P2P classes can be made slightly more powerful than F2P classes (the 10% suggested in my previous response) without having to make them so powerful that F2P versions cant be viable in the same settings with equal investments.

    Scaling mechanisms include melee power, ranged power, PRR, MRR, etc...

    Example: If F2P class gives X melee power, then if they want the P2P class to have more it can be X*1.1 (10% more)

    There are exceptions to this, where F2P classes hold their own, but not many. Typically they require far more investment.
    Last edited by Chai; 09-10-2019 at 11:10 AM.
    Historically: If every melee nerf after each melee class revamp was reverted back to its pre-nerf version, which melee build(s) are OP in the current meta?

  15. #15
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Potatofasf View Post
    What:
    All outdated named itens, pré-Ravenloft and Sharn

    Why:
    They are irrelevant, not worthy using or farm for. A bunch load of content wasting hardware space. Most of them are Bound to Character. Some itens aren't match for news itens on Level 6 (White Plume Mountain Loot), 7 (Red Fens Revamped Loots), 8 (Slavers) and 10 (Ravenloft Loots).
    I.e. Sands Loots, GH Loots, Storm Horn Loots, Wheelon Loots

    Further comments / suggestions:

    First of all, make them on par with the new game reality, Prefix+Suffix+New standard effect+Augment Slot+Special effect. Second reduce de min level to usage. Third Set Bonus. Forth make them at least competitive with the same level loot cited above.
    Quote Originally Posted by legendkilleroll View Post
    What: Random loot, especially weapons

    Why: Apart from low levels i cant remember last time i even bother to look at them, not asking for them to compete with raid ones but vendor trash or left in chest is not what i want. Dont see why u cant get super lucky on a good roll and have a great endgame weapon.

    Suggestion: Id like to see a return of the old enchantments from years ago, "Thousand suns" "Obscenity" to name a few, then with the hundread ingredients we have, be able to make them sentient.
    I don't understand both replies. I use almost nothing but those you see as "underpowered". Maybe you are looking at them from an elite perspective ?

    I'm stil playing my first-lifers below level 10, mostly, and I just cannot say that they are underpowered. I doN't have any way to measure them against something else, though.

    Maybe you are so much used to the luxury that a slice of bread has lost all taste to you, metaphorically speaking ?
    If I was onstantly driving a racing car, every beetle car would be like **** to me.
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

  16. #16
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    I don't understand both replies..
    Then feel free to PM the posters, or discuss it publicly in another thread.

    I am going to ask the rest of the people to please edit the content of their message, simply post your own UP comment, or remove your questioning of the others.

    The whole point of the thread is to offer feedback, something that becomes very hard in these forums because it immediately gets into a back and forth.

    I do understand that I cannot do anything to stop any of you from ignoring it and doing whatever you want, but consider this:

    Do you really want to be that guy?

  17. #17
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    What: Curse-Spewing.

    Why: The effect is now insignificant, rendering Curse-Spewing as trash

    Further comments / suggestions: Before, CS weaps proc'd on a hit, subject got a save to negate. Very useful at low levels, not so much higher.
    But long ago it was nerfed into "enter for a chance to win a spot in our lottery drawing"... ie, hurdles within hurdles. CS now only procs on a vorpal hit, creature still gets save to negate? Making the odds of proc so slim for a mere -4 effect that it's no longer worth it.

    Try it with a CS bow to see what I mean, you will kill the poor critter before you can curse it.
    Last edited by Fenrisulven7; 09-10-2019 at 12:32 PM.

  18. #18
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    What: Cannith Crafting

    Why: Overpowered, rendering almost all random loot into trash

    Further comments / suggestions: Sorry, I love Cannith Crafting, but in all honesty it is overpowered for it's level. I came back from a several year break, discovered the new crafting system and dove in. Now, geared up with custom made items, I am pulling named gear that used to be Desired, now I look at the +4 Gloves of Strength (level X) and say to myself: Too bad, I can craft those gloves at 2 levels lower AND add Deadly to them, munch munch.

    Adjust the stat and skill bonuses downward to dovetail with named loot you can pull from Splinterskull, Redfens etc so that the older gear is useful again.

    Her: "Bloodstone Seeker +6 trinket at 9th lvl?"

    Me: "LOL. Vendor it!"

    Her: "But but, I used to farm for WEEKS to get this..."

    Me: "Nope, not anymore, I'll craft you a better one."

    Here:
    Goggles 10th lvl
    Accuracy +9
    Seeker +5
    Ins Seeker +2

    = Seeker +7, with Accuracy +9 and hell, lets throw in a Green Aug slot....

    Her: Oh... yah that.
    Last edited by Fenrisulven7; 09-10-2019 at 12:36 PM.

  19. #19
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Then feel free to PM the posters, or discuss it publicly in another thread.

    I am going to ask the rest of the people to please edit the content of their message, simply post your own UP comment, or remove your questioning of the others.

    The whole point of the thread is to offer feedback, something that becomes very hard in these forums because it immediately gets into a back and forth.

    I do understand that I cannot do anything to stop any of you from ignoring it and doing whatever you want, but consider this:

    Do you really want to be that guy?
    You're not the boss of me!

    But here's the issue... I care about the game same as you.

    If you post a "problem" that I don't see as a problem, I can let it go, but if you then post a possible fix that I think will make the game WORSE, then I will want to speak up to make sure a dev doesn't implement a change I dislike.

    This should make sense to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    You're not the boss of me!

    But here's the issue... I care about the game same as you.

    If you post a "problem" that I don't see as a problem, I can let it go, but if you then post a possible fix that I think will make the game WORSE, then I will want to speak up to make sure a dev doesn't implement a change I dislike.

    This should make sense to you.
    The magical feat - how to disturb a thread!

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