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  1. #1
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Default Single weapon fighting and Board revamp

    Hi there. I wish everyone a good day.

    My suggestion is simple and nowhere overpowered.

    The possiblity of Sword and board style for small shields and bucklers for all classes without having to pick Bard class for only grabbing Swashbuckler 3 enhancement. (Runearms and Orbs can allready use the style free. Why should not other classes be able to enjoythe shield bonuses ?)

    Putting a restriction of Single weapon and shield style fighting to let the character use the style free with shield and medium sized weapon but not with any type of shield bashes to ensure the virtual focus at main hand weapon and the style.

    Focus here is the Single weapon style and to let Main hand weapon get the SWF bonus while wielding small sized shields. Not Heavier shields and their bonuses; Not the shield bashes.

    Right now, wielding any type of shield ,automatically, cancels Single weapon style although it is still Single weapon fighting while holding a shield without level 3 Swashbuckler. This can be as new martial feat that requires Single weapon fighting and Shield feats to get unlocked with its own bonuses and restrictions. for non Swashbuckler bard splashed Martial classes.


    Thank you.




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    Last edited by Kutalp; 09-09-2019 at 02:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Indubitably's Avatar
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    Eh, it's called single weapon fighting for a reason, and they already have a line of feats for weapon and shield. Your not really meant to really combine the weapon lines.

    I think its fantastic that you can, but it requires a very dedicated solution, which makes sense. For starters, your looking at a number of feats that most classes wouldn't be able to achieve... so there is almost a fighter requirement, just like the bard requirement... fighting single weapon style with a shield in your offhand would require a LOT of finesse, which is characteristic of the bard, so that makes sense.

    Its a good reason to promote multiclassing, and if its a style your interested in you can fiddle around with a build that works. Having them both intrinsically works potentially creates an overpowered setup, and also takes away from the bards uniqueness and advantages.

    I love the sword and board style, and when I roll melee it's probably my most common one. But I think it would become a clear winner if it worked the way you wanted it to. And it would also frustrate a LOT of non fighter builds who wanted to go sword and board, but clearly couldnt complete the necessary setup to achieve the full potential of the style.

    A paladin would have to choose between these...
    Precision/PA, Improved Critical, Knights Training/exotic weapon/swords to plowshares, 3 shield feats, 3 SWF feats (4?), Force of personality, Cleave & Greater Cleave (depending)
    It's possible, more so for a Human... but leaves VERY little customisation choice.

  3. #3
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    The problem isnt that you cant S&B with SWF. The problem is that S&B by itself is not competitive with SWF.

    It shouldnt match point-for-point with DPS, obviously - but there just isnt much need for the greater defense you would logically get with S&B. It doesnt really have a role in the game.

    They could take away the 1s CD on shield bash, that'd be a start, anyway - especially for Vanguard builds. But they need to put more tankiness in the S&B line - maybe a Greater Shield Mastery feat that gives you a stacking 20% HP and 20 PRR/MRR.

  4. #4
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indubitably View Post
    Eh, it's called single weapon fighting for a reason, and they already have a line of feats for weapon and shield. Your not really meant to really combine the weapon lines.

    I think its fantastic that you can, but it requires a very dedicated solution, which makes sense. For starters, your looking at a number of feats that most classes wouldn't be able to achieve... so there is almost a fighter requirement, just like the bard requirement... fighting single weapon style with a shield in your offhand would require a LOT of finesse, which is characteristic of the bard, so that makes sense.

    Its a good reason to promote multiclassing, and if its a style your interested in you can fiddle around with a build that works. Having them both intrinsically works potentially creates an overpowered setup, and also takes away from the bards uniqueness and advantages.

    I love the sword and board style, and when I roll melee it's probably my most common one. But I think it would become a clear winner if it worked the way you wanted it to. And it would also frustrate a LOT of non fighter builds who wanted to go sword and board, but clearly couldnt complete the necessary setup to achieve the full potential of the style.

    A paladin would have to choose between these...
    Precision/PA, Improved Critical, Knights Training/exotic weapon/swords to plowshares, 3 shield feats, 3 SWF feats (4?), Force of personality, Cleave & Greater Cleave (depending)
    It's possible, more so for a Human... but leaves VERY little customisation choice.






    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    The problem isnt that you cant S&B with SWF. The problem is that S&B by itself is not competitive with SWF.

    It shouldnt match point-for-point with DPS, obviously - but there just isnt much need for the greater defense you would logically get with S&B. It doesnt really have a role in the game.

    They could take away the 1s CD on shield bash, that'd be a start, anyway - especially for Vanguard builds. But they need to put more tankiness in the S&B line - maybe a Greater Shield Mastery feat that gives you a stacking 20% HP and 20 PRR/MRR.




    Thank you very much for the valuable input friends. Nice catch there.

  5. #5
    Community Member Indubitably's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutalp View Post
    Thank you very much for the valuable input friends. Nice catch there.
    I should be more constructive.
    I feel, as droid pointed out, that the S&B style should be able to stand up by it'self, without the need to try and splice in a second weapon line or use a funky fighter/bard setup.
    Its great you can get some unique blending in... but the S&B style should be competitive by it'self.

    If it's under performing, then the 3 feats should be improved to match, instead of trying to make S&B people take 6 feats instead of 3.
    I agree, S&B damage shouldn't be up there with the other style... but it should be close. And the defenisve benefits atm are a bit of a yawn.

    I've not thought about the maths enough to make a fair suggestion as to how to improve it... but more PRR/MRR would be the bland solution to it, and the removal of the 1second cooldown on bash would be a clear dps improvement with little effort.

    I would REALLY like to see one of the shield feats also give+1[w] to your shield, much like point blank shot... and maybe even give increase crit range and/or multiplier to your shield (like knights training, swords to plowshares).
    Some of the current S&B feats are very underwhelming to take... so this would go a long way to promoting more people to roll a tank playstyle.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    FYI SWF and Shield Mastery stacking was an unintended consequence of Swashbuckling. The original intent had been that you were supposed to only use one feat line. Fortunately the devs chose not to nerf it.

    S&B has always been the "tank-y" melee style; the problem is the defensive benefits don't outweigh the DPS loss for most players. Another casualty of the never ending power creep.
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  7. #7
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    FYI SWF and Shield Mastery stacking was an unintended consequence of Swashbuckling. The original intent had been that you were supposed to only use one feat line. Fortunately the devs chose not to nerf it.

    S&B has always been the "tank-y" melee style; the problem is the defensive benefits don't outweigh the DPS loss for most players. Another casualty of the never ending power creep.
    Butbutbut vanguards get attack speed and goodies with shield!

    I always liked the s&b and swf animation/style/aspect, played em before the swf thingie more times that after the line creation xD

    Pretty sure it wouldn't be op mixing both, would be broken tho, suddenly the stone could be able to do some dps and have ways to get more aggeo too, more like wow tanking used to be, a mix of taunt and hate xD
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  8. #8
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    IMO Weapon & Shield Style should be more defense and less offence than the other melee 3 styles (THF, TWF, SWF). I would like to see shields add more avoidance than what they already do so what I would do is add a new Dodge Chance call Shield Deflection the requires a shield to be equipped to be active and then have the 3 shield feat add 15% deflection per feat.

    Alternatively I would rebalance all combat styles at once you can see my idea of that in my sig though.

  9. #9
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Humbled by the fellow veteran players' comments; seasoned with years of practical experience.

    I really hope dear developing team will be able to add some curve to the existing basic class and basic feat abilites to support casual/starter and permadeath play styles. I am pretty sure this will attract and hold more players.

    Single weapon and 'small' boarding would be a very flexible choice for adventuring classes in general; if not a hardcore choice for focused builds such as a core tank or agressive vanguard style shield charging fighter.

    Another random and most probably mad idea pops at mind is the game seems to take a route to universal trees. This somehow seems much easier to handle compared to revamping the entire mechanics for old classes (?) for developers.

    Out of joke from some other random threads; may e we will see new universal trees for Universal DC for casters. Universal trapping and skillng tree with stealth. Universal Warrior class with optimal choices for weapons and builds at their unique trees in the future; instead of sticking to a class.


    ...Just random thoughts if you beg pardon of the vilage fool.



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    Last edited by Kutalp; 09-13-2019 at 06:17 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Indubitably's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    IMO Weapon & Shield Style should be more defense and less offence than the other melee 3 styles (THF, TWF, SWF). I would like to see shields add more avoidance than what they already do so what I would do is add a new Dodge Chance call Shield Deflection the requires a shield to be equipped to be active and then have the 3 shield feat add 15% deflection per feat.
    There is already a feat called Shield deflection,
    Understandable you might not know as no one in the history of DDO has ever taken it.
    (I'm kidding, you probably know, I'm just taking a stab at how unpopular and worthless this feat is).

    My suggestion would be to make this optional shield feat mroe worthwhile... and a physical component to it's alreayd magical component, and add a smaller bonus for when not blocking.

    E.G. Based on size of shield equipped...
    You receive 10/15/20/25 % chance to ignore elemental damage while actively blocking. You receive Half bonus while not blocking.
    You receive 6/9/12/15 % chance to ignore a physical attack while actively blocking. You receive half bonus while not blocking.

    Considering no one actively blocks...ever... this might give some incentive (probably not) to block, but still useful otherwise... Similar to wind through the trees.

    Finally, Add the 4 shield mastery feats to the list of feats that count for epic defensive fighting.... its rediculous that they don't count!
    Last edited by Indubitably; 09-15-2019 at 11:34 PM.
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