Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,899

    Default What I hated of Shan-To-Kor

    Hello everyone,

    today I played Shan-To-Kor through.

    And then I noticed - once again - why I hated this Adventure Pack.

    Here is my list.

    • It is too long - no real possibilirty to do a break betwen the parts
    • I got ... what's the term ? - Motion Sickness ? "Game Sickness" ? - And still, I had to go on, if I didn't want to get thrown out by the game ... Nothing told me I could break it up and restore the quest at any point ...
    • In all game mauals there's a passage saying that after a long time of playing, one should take a rest. Yet there is a quest - suimilar to the Temple Of Elemental Evil - that is so long that it really doesn't give the player the idea of taking a break.
    • It is rather like one super long tunnel, with no incentives to take a break - no light, no vendors, just one super long dungeoin crawl. And did I crawl !
    • The original level for it is level 3. Has any one of the devs tried to play this through with a level 3 F2P inventory space ß I guess no. I had almost one tab free - and yet I had to throw things away. A bigger gem bag would have helped, but which Newbie has the idea of having to have that during THAT long tunnel run ?



    tl;dr : Far too long, no possibility to take a break, motion sickness, too much loot for a level 3 inventory, no vendors.


    It is unlikely I'll play that within the next time again. Together with TOEE this is the longest quest I know (even although it is a chain), and I just can't pull myself into playing a dungein crawl that long.

    In my list of adventure pack purchases, this and TOEE are the only ones I label as "missed chance" and "no good buy".

    Please, if you're EVER going to rework them - or plan to so THAT LONG dungeon crawls in the futuire :

    For God's sake DO SMALLER PARTS OUT OF IT !

    Like a puzzle, with small parts one can easily abandon when the telephone rings and pick up later.
    And actually GIVE the player the idea WHERE he or she can easily abandon and pick up again these parts !

    Alrik,
    exhausted
    and still recovering from that ... motion sickness ... (Which, interestingly, became stronger when having headphones on) ...
    "You are a Tiefling. And a Cleric, with the Domain of the Sun. Doesn't that contradict each other ?" "No, all my friends are playing evil. I found that so boring that I decided to be on the good side. And, besides, Sun and Fire, where is the difference, really ?"

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    tl;dr : Far too long, no possibility to take a break, motion sickness, too much loot for a level 3 inventory, no vendors.
    You don't have to do all 3 in a row. The entrance to the first will take you to whichever quest you're on.

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    The Abyss
    Posts
    588

    Default Hard disagree

    STK is probably my favorite low level adventure pack, and probably one of my favorite quest packs in terms of design.

    If it's too long for you just take a break between parts, unlike other long quests STK is actually a chain of 3 quests that you can run individually and only compares to longer quests when you include them all together. even if you ran the entire chain in a row it's shorter than most of the ultra long quests like TOEE/Slavelords pt2.

    Not sure why you're comparing it to TOEE, STK is basically the polar opposite of TOEE in design, TOEE is a sprawling dungeon that is easy to get lost in, where you can easily spend 1+ hour looking for a RNG placed item, just part 2 of TOEE is longer than the entirety of STK, and you only get a single break in TOEE (2 parts) unlike STK which is split in 3 on top of being less than 1/5th the length of TOEE.

    STK also has the benefit of being one of the most atmospheric and well designed dungeon(s) in the entire game outside of Ravenloft, unlike TOEE era dungeons STK isn't filled with hordes of mobs with 10s of thousands of hitpoints every 20-30 feet, STK is very carefully crafted and only occasionally throws large groups of mobs at you when it makes sense (kobolds in pt1, and hobgoblins in their city, and other times is fairly sparse and atmospheric).

    STK was the very first p2p adventure pack I played and it's been one of my favorite quest chains ever since.

  4. #4
    Community Member Sir_Noob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    625

    Default You are so wrong in your assessment.

    This is one of my favorite low level chains, it is hugely fun with a few challenging areas and as stated earlier one of the chains that make the most sense adventure wise and with mob placement. My first time through it was huge fun! (As is every time I play it)
    As also stated, rather than go through the door at the end of the adventure to the next chapter, finish out, clean up, and come back later when you are ready to take on the adventure again. The original entrance takes you to the next chapter.

    I have to say I so disagree with your assessment with this chain. If anything the end rewards could use an update to be more relevant but other than that I love this chain.
    After a little Tolkien I am usually up for anything.

  5. #5
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    ¿
    Posts
    20,011

    Default

    STK is fantastic, imho - one of the best chains in the game. Yes, each one leads rather nicely and organically into the next. Much better than, say... all the NPC to entrance, dungeon, back to NPC - back to same entrance, same dungeon, back to same NPC/back to same entrance, same dungeon/move on to 2nd half of dungeon, back to NPC - etc of Splinterskull. That is so numbingly redundant and dull to me. I think STK has a fantastic rhythm to match the story.

    You can recall out at any time at the end of each quest, you don't have to take the door to the next bit. Once that XP hits, you're good to go. Sell, restock, etc. It's just like every other quest/chain in the game in that regard. I almost always duck out between Pt II and Pt III to rebuff and sell/repair.


    I have always enjoyed running STK, ever since I played it for the first time in the closed beta in 05. Everybody is different, and no quest can be universally loved. But, STK is one of DDO's all-stars imho.
    Last edited by Memnir; 09-07-2019 at 06:01 PM.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

    .58098.

  6. #6
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,555

    Default

    I really enjoy StK. The underground mushroom + city terrain is beautiful. Someday I hope they use something similar maybe with a touch more mushrooms & waterfalls as in Sykros' Jewel but with Underdark lighting and maybe some of that sparkly lichen and we get a quest featuring Mychonids.

    I usually take a break between P2 & P3, especially if I'm at level to repair and sell. Your unbound stuff can take quite a lot of wear by that time. Just go back to the original quest entrance and it will put you in the next part, provided you completed any previous portions.

    The only thing I get cranky about are the traps which can be entirely unforgiving. *waves fist at screen* Curse you fire trap on ladder!
    Blood Scented Axe Body Spray (Thelanis)
    Aelonwy - Wydavir - Metaluscious - Aertimys - Aelyrra - Kaelaria - Lunaura - Aelurawynn - Saurscha - Crystalorn - Aurvaeyn - Vaelyns - Wyllowynd

  7. #7
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    3,669

    Default

    Arlik has generally been a mostly positive player in my experiences with him through the forums...

    I don't know if you knew this, but you can indeed take a break in between quests. Think of it like like Tangleroot Gorge Chain. It'd just be the same entrance.

    Also, sorry you got motion sickness. When I play Destiny 2 for too long with headphones on, I also get that weird headache. Try to take some more breaks.

    Also do you play in extreme first person POV or is the "camera" panned back for a more 3rd person view?
    "Hireling" and "Hjealer"
    Member of THACO on Ghallanda

  8. #8
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    ¿
    Posts
    20,011

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bacab View Post
    Arlik has generally been a mostly positive player in my experiences with him through the forums...

    Also, sorry you got motion sickness. When I play Destiny 2 for too long with headphones on, I also get that weird headache. Try to take some more breaks.
    Agreed.

    While I don't get motion sickness, I do have a significant blindspot in my vision that restricts my playtime. It's neurological, brain injury instead of nerve or eyeball damage, due of an injury and not ever gonna go away. I get splitting headaches because my brain won't stop trying to process the visual input that should be there, but no longer is. As a result, I take breaks a lot. It's all good to do so. If I can offer any advise, please let me know.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

    .58098.

  9. #9
    Community Member Bacab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    3,669

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Agreed.

    While I don't get motion sickness, I do have a significant blindspot in my vision that restricts my playtime. It's neurological, brain injury instead of nerve or eyeball damage, due of an injury and not ever gonna go away. I get splitting headaches because my brain won't stop trying to process the visual input that should be there, but no longer is. As a result, I take breaks a lot. It's all good to do so. If I can offer any advise, please let me know.
    Ugh, as a CT Tech and Army Vet, I have had a lot of patients that had that problem. Its just crappy.

    And, like you Memnir, I generally can "feel" or "sense" one of these headaches, so I just take breaks a lot more often.

    OH and on my thread "Which old school quests would you like Epic'd?" STK would probably be my third choice behind "Caverns of Korromar" and "Invaders!"

    STK is great to me.
    "Hireling" and "Hjealer"
    Member of THACO on Ghallanda

  10. #10
    Community Member Diesel_Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    Hello everyone,

    today I played Shan-To-Kor through.

    And then I noticed - once again - why I hated this Adventure Pack.

    Here is my list.

    • It is too long - no real possibilirty to do a break betwen the parts
    • I got ... what's the term ? - Motion Sickness ? "Game Sickness" ? - And still, I had to go on, if I didn't want to get thrown out by the game ... Nothing told me I could break it up and restore the quest at any point ...
    • In all game mauals there's a passage saying that after a long time of playing, one should take a rest. Yet there is a quest - suimilar to the Temple Of Elemental Evil - that is so long that it really doesn't give the player the idea of taking a break.
    • It is rather like one super long tunnel, with no incentives to take a break - no light, no vendors, just one super long dungeoin crawl. And did I crawl !
    • The original level for it is level 3. Has any one of the devs tried to play this through with a level 3 F2P inventory space ß I guess no. I had almost one tab free - and yet I had to throw things away. A bigger gem bag would have helped, but which Newbie has the idea of having to have that during THAT long tunnel run ?



    tl;dr : Far too long, no possibility to take a break, motion sickness, too much loot for a level 3 inventory, no vendors.


    It is unlikely I'll play that within the next time again. Together with TOEE this is the longest quest I know (even although it is a chain), and I just can't pull myself into playing a dungein crawl that long.

    In my list of adventure pack purchases, this and TOEE are the only ones I label as "missed chance" and "no good buy".

    Please, if you're EVER going to rework them - or plan to so THAT LONG dungeon crawls in the futuire :

    For God's sake DO SMALLER PARTS OUT OF IT !

    Like a puzzle, with small parts one can easily abandon when the telephone rings and pick up later.
    And actually GIVE the player the idea WHERE he or she can easily abandon and pick up again these parts !

    Alrik,
    exhausted
    and still recovering from that ... motion sickness ... (Which, interestingly, became stronger when having headphones on) ...

    Oh no!! I don't think you realize that you can actually just recall out of the dungeon at the end of part 1 and 2. And go sell and repair if you need to. Then entrance to part 1 is also the entrance to part 2 and part 3.
    Eventually, you might wanna buy an inventory slot for your main character. It stays with you through each life. And it's so nice starting out with more bags in your back pack each life to take stuff out of your TR bank that you need.
    Bank slots too when you are able too. Not just shared but character bank slots.

    Hope you will try STK again, and this time take a nice break to sell and repair and grab a cup of coffee in between dungeons
    Don't purify the healing spring!!!! Trust me!!!
    Unless you have a high dodge, .........at least it was paper cups and not arrows LOL
    Some dwarves can be so touchy!!!

  11. #11
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    You don't have to do all 3 in a row. The entrance to the first will take you to whichever quest you're on.
    Nobody told me so. Even the Wiki doesn't say that, as far as I know.

    On the positive side : The architecture is great. It has only a few logical problems : I enter the town from above through a few tunels - how did the Hobgoblins come there in the first place ? How do they maintain contact to the surface ? Where do they get their food from ? Only mushrooms ? Especially since the way the adventurer goes has several points-of-no-return.



    Apologies for being so emotional, but I actually was feeling sick and angry. More sick than angry, though.
    Last edited by Alrik_Fassbauer; 09-08-2019 at 04:04 AM.
    "You are a Tiefling. And a Cleric, with the Domain of the Sun. Doesn't that contradict each other ?" "No, all my friends are playing evil. I found that so boring that I decided to be on the good side. And, besides, Sun and Fire, where is the difference, really ?"

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    Nobody told me so. Even the Wiki doesn't say that, as far as I know.

    On the positive side : The architecture is great. It has only a few logical problems : I enter the town from above through a few tunels - how did the Hobgoblins come there in the first place ? How do they maintain contact to the surface ? Where do they get their food from ? Only mushrooms ? Especially since the way the adventurer goes has several points-of-no-return.



    Apologies for being so emotional, but I actually was feeling sick and angry. More sick than angry, though.

    Hope you're feeling better.

    The info is in the wiki, but that's an unofficial open source as far as I know, so SSG isn't responsible for updating it, we are.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/The_Cloven-...erns_of_Shaagh
    You can enter this quest either directly from the previous one, or by returning to the Kobold's Blockade.
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Halls_of_Shan-To-Kor
    You can enter this quest either directly from the previous quest, or by returning to the Kobold's Blockade. Either way, Hetman Shaagh's Notes can be destroyed at any point.

  13. #13
    Community Member LTForge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    On the positive side : The architecture is great. It has only a few logical problems : I enter the town from above through a few tunels - how did the Hobgoblins come there in the first place ? How do they maintain contact to the surface ? Where do they get their food from ? Only mushrooms ? Especially since the way the adventurer goes has several points-of-no-return.
    Good questions.

    Hobgoblins are typically the most cunning and strong of the goblinoids, as well as excellent miners and craftsmen, it's entirely plausible that they have passageways we as players simply don't see or have access to. Maybe the pipes guarded by spiders and traps are actually alternate entrances that lead to far more complex sections of the winding steam-tunnels? Maybe they're entirely self sufficient down in their homes and have other settlements, villages and farms we don't see as they'd simply lead us away from our objective and into danger for seemingly no reason.

    One of the most interesting aspects of the sewers and steamworks is that we, across a total of about a dozen quests, actually see very, very, little of it. It's a massive work built by giants and reaches a depth and span of absolutely staggering proportions and houses likely thousands of monstrous denizens. Given hobgoblin ingenuity and the sheer weight of their numbers, it's unlikely we're seeing more than a tiny portion of their clan and how it functions as a whole in this single quest.

    Also they probably eat the kobolds too.

    Finally, how they got there. Well the hobgoblins are old as sin, with a dated history going back well over 10,000 years. It's entirely possible the clan has existed there since the time of the Giants, which would explain why they know of the very Seal the party is seeking, where it is, and how valuable it is to the very same Giants, as they mention in the Notes you collect from Hetman Shaagh after you murder him in cold blood.
    Perhaps they were once slaves or workers for the Giant empire and simply survived the destruction of the giants in their tunnels and caves hidden away under Stormreach until a plucky band of murderhobos decided they wanted their stuff.

    Who knows! Fun to think about though.

  14. #14
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,782

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    Nobody told me so. Even the Wiki doesn't say that, as far as I know.

    On the positive side : The architecture is great. It has only a few logical problems : I enter the town from above through a few tunels - how did the Hobgoblins come there in the first place ? How do they maintain contact to the surface ? Where do they get their food from ? Only mushrooms ? Especially since the way the adventurer goes has several points-of-no-return.



    Apologies for being so emotional, but I actually was feeling sick and angry. More sick than angry, though.
    Read about the Dhakaani Empire.

  15. #15
    Community Member Diesel_Smurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    Nobody told me so. Even the Wiki doesn't say that, as far as I know.

    On the positive side : The architecture is great. It has only a few logical problems : I enter the town from above through a few tunels - how did the Hobgoblins come there in the first place ? How do they maintain contact to the surface ? Where do they get their food from ? Only mushrooms ? Especially since the way the adventurer goes has several points-of-no-return.



    Apologies for being so emotional, but I actually was feeling sick and angry. More sick than angry, though.
    I feel for ya, sorry I'm a day late on reply, and hope you're feelin better. I know how ya feel there. I get to feelin really tired and woosey when there's to many Otto balls up, and the glitter dust cloud the hobgoblin in GH use is so much thicker and brighter than the ones the players have. I have my bloom density down and brightness down on my computer and phone cause bright light just messes with me.
    Talk about making ya queasy......
    The Rift quest....
    I'm one of those that kinda moves with her char a bit.... OISEY MOMMY!!
    Don't purify the healing spring!!!! Trust me!!!
    Unless you have a high dodge, .........at least it was paper cups and not arrows LOL
    Some dwarves can be so touchy!!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload