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  1. #21
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    looks good - didnt really want to have tank type abilities -

    but why dragonborn?

    why not aasmair?
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    looks good - didnt really want to have tank type abilities -

    but why dragonborn?

    why not aasmair?
    Because Dragonborn gives you what you need in this build:

    * +3 evocation DC, which is awesome for this build !
    * +1 Caster Level and +2 Max Caster Level for cold spells, which is awesome too !
    * +30 cold spell power
    * a dragon breath weapon, which is an instant which does very high damages
    * +3 DC to breath weapons, for dragonborn breath and draconic incarnation breath
    * +40 HP and 20 healing amplification

    Aasimar is far far from all these bonuses. Dragonborn is the obvious choice for this build.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipav View Post
    Because Dragonborn gives you what you need in this build:

    * +3 evocation DC, which is awesome for this build !
    * +1 Caster Level and +2 Max Caster Level for cold spells, which is awesome too !
    * +30 cold spell power
    * a dragon breath weapon, which is an instant which does very high damages
    * +3 DC to breath weapons, for dragonborn breath and draconic incarnation breath
    * +40 HP and 20 healing amplification

    Aasimar is far far from all these bonuses. Dragonborn is the obvious choice for this build.
    just as a counterpoint -

    aasimar gives you +4 wis - so +2 to all dcs
    +60 amp and +10% hp.
    +3 to all saving throws
    +30 to pos sp
    healing hands for additional healing - not as attractive on a healing class like druid
    your not an ugly lizard that runs slow.

    i do like the breath weapon and sp from lizard though
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    just as a counterpoint -

    aasimar gives you +4 wis - so +2 to all dcs
    +60 amp and +10% hp.
    +3 to all saving throws
    +30 to pos sp
    healing hands for additional healing - not as attractive on a healing class like druid
    your not an ugly lizard that runs slow.

    i do like the breath weapon and sp from lizard though
    It's true.

    Your proposition is good, but it's a question of choice.

    If we compare the bonuses between dragonborn and Aasimar:

    1) +1 evocation DC in dragonborn is important
    2) +1 Caster Level and +2 Max Caster Level for cold spells in dragonborn is VERY important; at the end, all bonuses to up the level and max level of cold spells allow to push the numbers, the main goal being to do nuke damages
    3) +30 cold spell power in dragonborn, same as 2, very important boost
    4) a new instant cold spell in dragonborn, the dragonborn breath, and +3 DC to the 2 breath weapons, huge bonuses given by dragonborn; the 2 breath weapons do huge damages
    5) what Aasimar really gives comparing to all these awesome bonuses is a huge boost on HP, and better healing capacity, which is really nice, but not the main goal of the build

    Dragonborn is really superior to Aasimar if you want to have the best nuke damages.

    If you want to be more oriented in healing, I agree with you. But I can say you that with the build I have presented, I am able to be the main healer without problem. In the last screen I made on the baba raid, we were only 2 healers, and on the final part of the raid, with all the adds, I focused on healing the raid, and some people thanked me for the great heals. If you look at the picture, my spell points pool was empty at the end, but I was 1st on the score card and healed the raid. It's what I like so much with druid: you can do several things, it's the reason I take so much pleasure with this class, I can DC, heal and DPS.

    But it's up to you.
    Last edited by tipav; 09-02-2019 at 04:55 AM.

  5. #25
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    A short example in sharn (in reaper 1 to show the numbers).

    https://youtu.be/ue5q6coOCG4

    Last edited by tipav; 09-02-2019 at 01:14 PM.

  6. #26
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    Default Draconic DC question

    Thanks for posting and sharing.

    What is your DC for the Draconic SLAs? And do you have trouble with mobs saving against them?

    I'm currently running a nuking Sorc in Draconic and have reliable DCs with Energy Burst but find mobs often save against Breath. (The Breath DC is significantly lower even tho the description says the DC calcs are the same. )

    I would think it would be very difficult as a Wisdom based build with dumped CHA and INT to reliably hit with the Draconic SLAs. If I understand things correctly if you have a 109 Evoc DC with Wisdon, you would have a CHA based DC of 83 (88 WIS and 36 CHA from your screenshot so 26 lower DC) My experience is that an 83 Evoc DC will be saved against most of the time in Mid-High Endgame Reaper.

    I though of trying a build like this after the destiny revamp but decided not to because I did not think Burst, Breath, and Vortex would have high enough DCs to work. I'd love to know they are working for you and anything you did so that I can give it a try.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by WetWip View Post
    Thanks for posting and sharing.

    What is your DC for the Draconic SLAs? And do you have trouble with mobs saving against them?

    I'm currently running a nuking Sorc in Draconic and have reliable DCs with Energy Burst but find mobs often save against Breath. (The Breath DC is significantly lower even tho the description says the DC calcs are the same. )

    I would think it would be very difficult as a Wisdom based build with dumped CHA and INT to reliably hit with the Draconic SLAs. If I understand things correctly if you have a 109 Evoc DC with Wisdon, you would have a CHA based DC of 83 (88 WIS and 36 CHA from your screenshot so 26 lower DC) My experience is that an 83 Evoc DC will be saved against most of the time in Mid-High Endgame Reaper.

    I though of trying a build like this after the destiny revamp but decided not to because I did not think Burst, Breath, and Vortex would have high enough DCs to work. I'd love to know they are working for you and anything you did so that I can give it a try.
    To be honest, I did not really look at the Draconic SLA DC. Why ? Because I think you're right on the fact that a lot of mobs will succeed their reflex save ... so you could be very surprised by my response, no ?

    In fact, I easily counterbalance this "problem" with the orientation I have taken:

    1) I have the highest possible numbers in cold spell power (1181), cold spell critical (100%) and cold spell multiplier (95%, could be possible to go to 100%, but I prefer 50 more cold spell power)

    2) I have the highest caster level on all the cold spells I use; all the instant cold spells are used at level 43, except tsunami, which is used at level 39

    So, the numbers are so high that even if the mobs succeed at their save, they often die on the first aoe (not all the time, but often) or after 3 aoe for the most resistant mobs. The fact that all my spells make criticals, with the highest cold spell power possible and with virtually the highest spell critical multiplier largely compensate the "problem" on save on a few cold instant spells used. I must add that the mobs miss anymway save rolls, but I could give you more precise indications on this point.

    So, as I have already explained, my DC is really important for earthquake in my opinion, I don't really try to have the highest CHA possible, it's a waste of time, I did the effort to boost it, but it was not a really issue on the gear setup. With an earthquake being able to put mobs on the ground in r8 to r10 (I play sometimes in R10 with my guild), you have the most important tool to let you do damages with all your instant spells, it was my thinking. It's on this particular aspect of the build that I made a lot of tests, trying to boost DC at the expense of smaller numbers of cold sp/scc/scm, and I have concluded that Reflection was totally indispensable in the initial idea of the build, ie do nuke damages.

    In conclusion, I think I have found a good balance between DC, heal and DPS. And the "low" DC, I can really tell you that it's really not a problem to do massive damages and kill monsters at an imporessive rythm, even in r8, with the help of my fiends naturarly, but my nuke damages in r8 make a difference, in my opinion.

    What is really amazing with this build is that you can play as an elementalist, but with some heals and probably the best DC spell in the game. The main goal of the game is to take pleasure , and I really take a lot with the druid for all of these reasons.

    I hope to have convinced you that this build is a sorcerer like build with heals ! Try it, and you will never abandon it. At least, you should try it.
    Last edited by tipav; 09-04-2019 at 02:52 AM.

  8. #28
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    How do you deal with immune and resistant mobs?

    Great stuff otherwise, cannot help but think that this is a bit of a neutered sorc (you lose DPS), but more generalist (better heals, CC, support). Would you agree with that assessment?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    How do you deal with immune and resistant mobs?

    Great stuff otherwise, cannot help but think that this is a bit of a neutered sorc (you lose DPS), but more generalist (better heals, CC, support). Would you agree with that assessment?
    Druid bypasses all resistance and immunities with his 9th level spell 'Mantle of the Icy Soul' when he is in water elemental form (you have another spell for fire in fire elemental form). Each time you go in the water elemental form, this spell is cast freely on you.

    Valid Forms: Water Elemental. You are shrouded in the mantle of the icy soul. When your cold spell's damage is reduced by a creature that is immune/resistant/healed by cold, that target is debuffed to take full damage from cold effects that follow. This does not stack with effects that amplify damage beyond 100%. Target also is debuffed with 10% Attack Speed Slow, 25% Movement Speed Slow, -4 to Fortitude and Reflex Saving Throws.

    I must specify that I count this debuff in the 109 DC.

    I played a sorcerer too, I think you are right for aoe spells, yes. But druid is better for single target damages with his awesome 4 dot spells. I did not speak a lot on this aspect of the build, but druid is recognized as a single target nuker with his 4 dots.

    So, even if sorcerer could do better aoe damages, in all of the aspects, and in the character I want to play, druid is by far superior to sorcerer. But I can sincerely understand that you could prefer sorcerer, or another class. Sorcerer has spells druid does not have. But druid can do other things sorcerer can not do, you used the correct word for me, druid is more generalist. As I already said, it's a question of choice in the game, and a question to know what you are looking for. I just wanted to present a little known game option.
    Last edited by tipav; 09-04-2019 at 07:11 AM.

  10. #30
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    Thanks for the response.

    I can understand your view on a low DC being OK for the Draconic SLAs, but I think it may still be a problem for mobs with evasion.

    It sounds like you are fortunate to have a group of people to play with, I end up running solo most of the time. Do you have to solo much? Can you provide me some insight on how it does solo in mid end game reaper? I am guessing that Earthquake and Tsunami are your main CC but I don't believe that either affect reapers. Do you have a method to CC reapers? I used to just nuke reapers but with the increased reaper HP and new Vengance reapers I think a way to CC them is more important.

  11. #31
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipav View Post
    Druid bypasses all resistance and immunities with his 9th level spell 'Mantle of the Icy Soul' when he is in water elemental form (you have another spell for fire in fire elemental form). Each time you go in the water elemental form, this spell is cast freely on you.

    Valid Forms: Water Elemental. You are shrouded in the mantle of the icy soul. When your cold spell's damage is reduced by a creature that is immune/resistant/healed by cold, that target is debuffed to take full damage from cold effects that follow. This does not stack with effects that amplify damage beyond 100%. Target also is debuffed with 10% Attack Speed Slow, 25% Movement Speed Slow, -4 to Fortitude and Reflex Saving Throws.

    I must specify that I count this debuff in the 109 DC.

    I played a sorcerer too, I think you are right for aoe spells, yes. But druid is better for single target damages with his awesome 4 dot spells. I did not speak a lot on this aspect of the build, but druid is recognized as a single target nuker with his 4 dots.

    So, even if sorcerer could do better aoe damages, in all of the aspects, and in the character I want to play, druid is by far superior to sorcerer. But I can sincerely understand that you could prefer sorcerer, or another class. Sorcerer has spells druid does not have. But druid can do other things sorcerer can not do, you used the correct word for me, druid is more generalist. As I already said, it's a question of choice in the game, and a question to know what you are looking for. I just wanted to present a little known game option.
    Thanks for the answer. I came back to the game a few months ago, and don't recall druids being to fully strip of immunity before.

    I agree, druid can be more versatile, and my no means I think it is worthless. Just wanted your thoughts on it.

    I might even try it out!

    I like that with dragonborn, one could possible move to a decent melee build after eTRing or LRing.

  12. #32

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    This is awesome. So happy to see a pure caster druid posted, it's been a long time. I will be recommending this post to folks looking at my build who are looking for a more traditional and less tanky caster druid than mine

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by WetWip View Post
    Thanks for the response.
    I can understand your view on a low DC being OK for the Draconic SLAs, but I think it may still be a problem for mobs with evasion.
    For mobs with evasion, I use one other aspect of the build: I use salt ray on them to stun them, and after I put creeping cold and greater creeping cold dots, and if I want to be sure to kill them, I put freezing spray; and I let them die. I use salt ray and creeping cold SLA. If there is a second mob in life, I use salt ray, creeping cold and greater creeping cold spells. But it's really rare I have to do that. I also use call lightning if needed. On the short video, you can see I kill one mob like that in the first group of mobs.

    Sincerely, when I use 3 to 5 instant, I try to think about that, but it's really rare to see mobs alive, even if mobs have evasion. And mobs of evasion are not so numerous, but they exist, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by WetWip View Post
    It sounds like you are fortunate to have a group of people to play with, I end up running solo most of the time. Do you have to solo much? Can you provide me some insight on how it does solo in mid end game reaper? I am guessing that Earthquake and Tsunami are your main CC but I don't believe that either affect reapers. Do you have a method to CC reapers? I used to just nuke reapers but with the increased reaper HP and new Vengance reapers I think a way to CC them is more important.
    True ! I have the luck to play with a group of great players on the server. There is a good group of end-game players on the server, we know each other, and we usually go on r7 to r10 together. In fact, I never play solo now. The people I play with are great players, not only in the gameplay, but as well as friends.

    So, if I had to play in solo, it's obvious I will change things on the DC. At the moment, I can't give you indications on playing the build in solo in mid-reaper. About reapers, believe me, with freezing spray, creeping cold, greater creeping cold, and on them envelopping swarm and creeping doom, I am able to kill them fast enough, I insist on the fact that the druid has really 4 dots to be a nuker on single target, and without any save. But, to really answer to all your questions about playing in solo, I should have to make some tries.

    Now, if you want to try it in solo, you could perhaps:

    1) replace the cannith crafting trinket by a SL trinket for a +4 WIS
    2) take 'Lightning coil' as weapon for a +9 evocation DC instead of +7
    3) take 'Legendary giant's platter' for more HP and AC
    4) change filigrees to take eye of the beholder for a +2 DC to all spells
    5) take the 'Scion of the Plane of Air' instead of 'Scion of the Plane of Fire' for a +4 DC to evocation

    This changes will improve your evocation DC:

    1) to 119 all the time if mobs are under sleet storm or ice storm.
    2) to 122 with reaper boost.
    3) to 129/132 with the magister debuff if it applies.
    4) +1 to all these numbers with yugoloth pots.
    5) +6 to all these numbers with arcane insight instead of wellspring of power
    6) if all the stars are aligned, you are at 139

    All these options, I thought about it. At the moment, I play in 2 types of play sessions: 1) 10 raids in reaper 1 every tuesday and every saturday (kt and sharn raids in hard mode atm) 2) quests in reaper 7 to 10. But it's true I never play solo. In raids, I should stay modest ..., but I am really the king: I heal the raid, have the highest number of killed ennemies on most of the raids, and I tank and self-heal in KT. On quests, because I have the luck to play with very good end-game players (they have 80 to 140 reaper points each, and an impressive number of reincarnations), my build is perfect to complete the group. I will really look at my earthquake efficiency to be able to give you a return on it. And I will try to make tests on solo reaper quests.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachomammashouse View Post
    This is awesome. So happy to see a pure caster druid posted, it's been a long time. I will be recommending this post to folks looking at my build who are looking for a more traditional and less tanky caster druid than mine
    Ah, my hero answers !

    Tyvm Nacho, as I told in my first post, you have inspired me when I came back to the game several months ago, so it's a real pleasure to see you here.

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    I add this section in the initial post.

    GAMEPLAY

    I speak here about gameplay for game sessions of quests done from r7 to r10. I am always playing in groups of 6.

    Before we enter in a new room or a new zone:

    1) I cast greater vigor mass an regenerate mass on the group.
    2) I always cast winter heart if available for 704 temporary HP, and I refresh spring resurgence if needed. In very difficult passages, I use 'Fearsome Invulnerability' before entering.

    When we enter in the new zone:

    3) I cast earthquake, sunburst and ice storm to put the cold debuff on the mobs. Sometimes, when there are a lot of mobs, I cast sleet storm.
    4) I can cast storm of vengeance, because it does very good damages, but with the groups in which I play, it becomes an option.
    5) I use wellspring of power, draconic hunger, and one reaper boost if available.

    NB: steps 3 to 5 must be used very fast

    6) I go on melee and cast the instant spells in this order (sometimes, I simply forget steps 3 to 5, except earthquake):

    a) burst of glacial wrath is always the first to try to freeze the mobs
    b) energy burst
    c) energy vortex if available
    d) the 2 dragon breaths
    e) tsunami
    f) ice flowers if needed
    g) 4 single target dots on doom reapers, with sunburst, word of balance and call lightning (all in SLA)
    h) sometimes, i cast call lightning storm for fun

    Sincerely, when I have all the spells up, even in r8, the mobs die, even if they were not yet damaged. But I rarely have to use all the instant spells, my companions doing a very high output dps too.

    The key of the sequence is to cast the healing spells before entering the room. With a high pool of spell points, it's really a good choice and not an issue for spell points management. With healing done preventively, I can focus on instant cold spells, even if I always have an eye on the life of each member of the group.

  16. #36
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    any other races that would be ok for this?

    only ones i can think of are human/helf/tiefling (thinking about this for racial 1-30)
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipav View Post
    I add this section in the initial post.

    GAMEPLAY

    I speak here about gameplay for game sessions of quests done from r7 to r10. I am always playing in groups of 6.

    Before we enter in a new room or a new zone:

    1) I cast greater vigor mass an regenerate mass on the group.
    2) I always cast winter heart if available for 704 temporary HP, and I refresh spring resurgence if needed. In very difficult passages, I use 'Fearsome Invulnerability' before entering.

    When we enter in the new zone:

    3) I cast earthquake, sunburst and ice storm to put the cold debuff on the mobs. Sometimes, when there are a lot of mobs, I cast sleet storm.
    4) I can cast storm of vengeance, because it does very good damages, but with the groups in which I play, it becomes an option.
    5) I use wellspring of power, draconic hunger, and one reaper boost if available.

    NB: steps 3 to 5 must be used very fast

    6) I go on melee and cast the instant spells in this order (sometimes, I simply forget steps 3 to 5, except earthquake):

    a) burst of glacial wrath is always the first to try to freeze the mobs
    b) energy burst
    c) energy vortex if available
    d) the 2 dragon breaths
    e) tsunami
    f) ice flowers if needed
    g) 4 single target dots on doom reapers, with sunburst, word of balance and call lightning (all in SLA)
    h) sometimes, i cast call lightning storm for fun

    Sincerely, when I have all the spells up, even in r8, the mobs die, even if they were not yet damaged. But I rarely have to use all the instant spells, my companions doing a very high output dps too.

    The key of the sequence is to cast the healing spells before entering the room. With a high pool of spell points, it's really a good choice and not an issue for spell points management. With healing done preventively, I can focus on instant cold spells, even if I always have an eye on the life of each member of the group.
    is tsunami worth it now?

    i havnt used it since they reworked sharadi
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  18. #38
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    and sorry - this has got me excited,


    but is the comparatively low wisdom an issue for dcs? on my wizard life i was around 108-110 int.

    or do all the debuffs take care of that with no save spells?
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    and sorry - this has got me excited,


    but is the comparatively low wisdom an issue for dcs? on my wizard life i was around 108-110 int.

    or do all the debuffs take care of that with no save spells?
    No problem.

    About the race, Dragonborn is the best choice for the build.

    About tsunami, he's really better now. You should try it. He's more simple to use.

    About the DC, I have already made responses on this issue. You should read the last posts, you will find all my responses on this topic.

    I could be interested to know how you have a so high INT, ie to have details on how you do to have 108-110 INT. I see how to go to 100, but not to 108. And if I do that, I have to choose another epic destiny, and draconic incarnation is too much important in the concept of the build to do that.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipav View Post
    No problem.

    About the race, Dragonborn is the best choice for the build.

    About tsunami, he's really better now. You should try it. He's more simple to use.

    About the DC, I have already made responses on this issue. You should read the last posts, you will find all my responses on this topic.

    I could be interested to know how you have a so high INT, ie to have details on how you do to have 108-110 INT. I see how to go to 100, but not to 108. And if I do that, I have to choose another epic destiny, and draconic incarnation is too much important in the concept of the build to do that.
    I know lizard is best..... but trying to see if I can make it work with others to add in racials or wait to do this for a "final" build

    ok for int.......

    drow.

    20 base
    +7 tome
    +7 levels
    +22 item
    +10 insightful
    66
    +1 exceptional
    +5 quality
    +2 festive
    +5 from pm and ek and harper
    +2 drow
    +4 lich
    +2 cap
    +2 from harper cores

    88

    +2 completionist
    +1 gnome racial


    95



    +6 from magister

    +2 twisted in

    +2 guild

    +1 reaper core

    +3-11 fili (i run 3, but you could put all slots int)

    + 3-4 artifact (esoteric gives +3 arcsteel 4)

    113 with my setup i run - 122 if i went all int.

    with more grinding i could get a little higher


    this was before pm revamp, but i believe that the int gain is the same

    this is not to knock your either, this looks very effective. it seems like its more damage over time, so dc is not as important
    Last edited by Hobgoblin; 09-05-2019 at 11:12 AM.
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

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