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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    What's that role they have? Inq is better and safer DPS. That leaves what, only tanking?
    Tanking is one role yes. Melee builds can take advantage of EDF, for one thing. Melee can still DPS, the Wolf nerf notwithstanding. Melee have way better options for CC and debuffing - Tactics and Stunning, all the various class enhancement attack-based effects - and Inqui has a daze, whoopee.

    And melee can fight in situations where you cant kite. Kiting is a great strategy but its not a total win-button God mode like you're making it out to be. There's a lot of quests where you're forced into close-quarters fighting, or fights against lots of ranged mobs with no cover, boss fights, etc. There's also a little thing called CC...if you fail your save on a Hold or Stun, it makes it kinda tough to kite. When you cant kite, Inqui shows your squishiness a lot faster.

    Again, let me just reiterate that a lot of the complaints people have with Inqui are really complaints about IPS - just Inqui is the first ranged build powerful enough to make it noticeable. The ability to turn all your attacks into functionally useful DPS is a huge damage multiplier. But that's not an issue with Inqui itself, that's just a disparity in fighting style mechanics for melee. I think when THF finishes its incremental improvements, we'll see it take that same role for melee of broad-spectrum AOE, and suddenly people wont be so salty about Inqui.
    Last edited by droid327; 08-24-2019 at 11:14 AM.

  2. #42
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    its not just melee is bad and range is good, its that they still nerfing melee and buffing range for no god dang reason. make ppl really lose hope that this can be turned around for all we know they will nerf melee again next patch just for fun.

  3. #43
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concavenator View Post
    its not just melee is bad and range is good, its that they still nerfing melee and buffing range for no god dang reason. make ppl really lose hope that this can be turned around for all we know they will nerf melee again next patch just for fun.
    I expect them to fully overshoot the mark with ranged.

    I really have no interest in whether melee are too good, good enough, or not good enough, but I do find the argument that melee is fine if they have a tank and the idea that they need to run ahead of everyone to get kills counter to each other.

    Can someone explain how you combine those two things?
    - inactive player -

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Tanking is one role yes. Melee builds can take advantage of EDF, for one thing. Melee can still DPS, the Wolf nerf notwithstanding. Melee have way better options for CC and debuffing - Tactics and Stunning, all the various class enhancement attack-based effects - and Inqui has a daze, whoopee.

    And melee can fight in situations where you cant kite. Kiting is a great strategy but its not a total win-button God mode like you're making it out to be. There's a lot of quests where you're forced into close-quarters fighting, or fights against lots of ranged mobs with no cover, boss fights, etc. There's also a little thing called CC...if you fail your save on a Hold or Stun, it makes it kinda tough to kite. When you cant kite, Inqui shows your squishiness a lot faster.

    Again, let me just reiterate that a lot of the complaints people have with Inqui are really complaints about IPS - just Inqui is the first ranged build powerful enough to make it noticeable. The ability to turn all your attacks into functionally useful DPS is a huge damage multiplier. But that's not an issue with Inqui itself, that's just a disparity in fighting style mechanics for melee. I think when THF finishes its incremental improvements, we'll see it take that same role for melee of broad-spectrum AOE, and suddenly people wont be so salty about Inqui.
    Yay, they can get more hp that they'll inevitably lose significantly faster than someone sitting at range. CC though, really? Casters are light years ahead in the CC department and I'll take auto-kd and pin/whistler over Dire Charge any day, especially from a safe distance. Inq also gets a free extra 25% fort bypass and auto-diplo to tell mobs to go away. It's not even close. Not tomention all that extra uncapped dodge and free Improved Uncanny Dodge.

    Melees absolutely need to kite. It's always been that way. Even tanks can't just stand in front of high reaper mobs and expect anything good to happen. Melee positioning has always come at a premium vs any other playstyle. You think melees that get CC'd aren't instagibbed like everyone else?

    So what we end up with is the need for tanks in certain scenarios. And that's it. For aoe dps, single target dps, overall survivability, overall utility, and basically anything else that isn't purely a tank role Inq and casters are superior.

    I'm not going to TR my melees simply because it's by far the most engaging style in the game and requires the most skill. But it really sucks to spend all that time getting good at it, making good builds, just to have a garbage universal tree and a few poorly thought out updates make it 2nd rate at best.

    At the end of the day the only people defending Inq and the melee nerfs are, not surprisingly, the people that exclusively play Inq.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emerge2012 View Post
    At the end of the day the only people defending Inq and the melee nerfs are, not surprisingly, the people that exclusively play Inq.
    hah i know this guy run life after life on inq alone and he wouldn't stop talking about how good his build is, but as soon as someone says it might need a nerf he gets super defensive about it.

  6. #46
    Community Member MrTrolol's Avatar
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    I suppose I play melee in a way that goes well, unless I play like an absolute idiot I really don't have issues staying alive, if a raid wipes i'm generally one of the last few to be standing. Guess people play melee differently to me that has them think it sucks.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTrolol View Post
    I suppose I play melee in a way that goes well, unless I play like an absolute idiot I really don't have issues staying alive, if a raid wipes i'm generally one of the last few to be standing. Guess people play melee differently to me that has them think it sucks.
    sry not everyone can be a technical genius like u.

  8. #48
    Community Member MrTrolol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concavenator View Post
    sry not everyone can be a technical genius like u.
    I'm not I suck lol, that's why I wonder why people think melee sucks.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by draven1 View Post
    DDO is a shooting game now.
    Crossbows and Meteors Online.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    Why should i use all my neural cells when i can go inqui and go pew pew pew ???

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cave_diver View Post
    And assassins can assassinate things that are lifeless (undead, constructs, oozes)
    So can ranged toons with IPS using the Shadowdancer thingy
    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    Why should i use all my neural cells when i can go inqui and go pew pew pew ???

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavidDynch View Post
    Reduce all spellpower by 50% and add some champs with 90% magic/pierce immunity; mirror the anti-melee champ: stoneguard.
    Blunt breaks their DR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    Why should i use all my neural cells when i can go inqui and go pew pew pew ???

  12. #52
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by count_spicoli View Post
    They have been completly nuetered in the game.

    Paladins, fighters barbs and monks are essentially a trap for returning and new players who enjoy the playstyle but will find it very difficult. When i post lfms i hardly have any melee join anymore. The devs have made it perfectly clear they dont care for that playstyle. Why not just remove them and be done with it?
    In lower levels I don't have much problems with these classes ... But on the other hand you'd assuume i fell into this trap ?

    I really have no idea when I'll reach levels so high that I might find it diffictlt to play with a melee class. But until then I plan to enjoy the game.

    And, remember that I mainly play for story, not for xp.
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

  13. #53
    Community Member Hawkwier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTrolol View Post
    I suppose I play melee in a way that goes well, unless I play like an absolute idiot I really don't have issues staying alive, if a raid wipes i'm generally one of the last few to be standing. Guess people play melee differently to me that has them think it sucks.
    Rubbish.

  14. #54
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkwier View Post
    Rubbish.
    He's got it more right than wrong, but in DDO it's usually not your play that matters most. It's your build, your gear, and your PLs. This isn't a twitch game, but a tiny bit of twitch-style play does go a LONG way to differentiate players here.

    Most melee mobs, for instance, can have their attacks manually dodged pretty easily if you're paying attention. Melee can work with casters for greater effect. Be first in. Even if you can't take a hit, that gives the CC'er an extra 1-2s to stick it on the group (can land both crushing and mass-hold in that gap where the critters are deciding to swap agro). Even a weak bard can time their fascinate to "pause" things long enough to make it VERY easy to land hard-cc (crushing won't wake things and then stuff is all grouped for an easy hold). A tactical melee can dire-charge, which gives hard-cc or AE insta-killers 6s to act.

    Ranged can easily kite to let melee hit things -- just jump around on top of the melee. I do it all the time on my inquisitive. It doesn't hurt ranged dps much and significantly ups party dps and survivability. Build-wise, ranged can splash in no-save CC like ice-storm, sleet, and fogs that help slow the kite and increase melee dps. Gotta remember that increasing your dps by 5% is meaningless compared to increasing party dps by 5%.

    Melee build? Well, get FoM on your boots and stand in the sleet. It is the single best spell in the game for melee. No-save blind means all attacks are sneak attacks and mobs going into "blind-mode" for attacks mean they'll attack the air more often than you. A melee without FoM is about the most foolish gear choice you can make in DDO and it's available at L10.

    --

    BTW, even with all that said, I kinda agree with the "DDO hates melee" sentiment. My bard is built specifically to deal with "dancing kobold syndrome". My DC caster is a holder for the same reason. My other melee will be rebuilt to deal with it too on the next TR. I created my ranged character specifically to avoid having to chase things.

    One BIG fix that SSG could do would be to prevent melee NPCs from jumping on top of my melee character, who then has to back up to hit it again. You don't have to implement collision physics, but at least make the mobs pretend they can't wear your shoes.

  15. #55
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavidDynch View Post
    Reduce all spellpower by 50% and add some champs with 90% magic/pierce immunity; mirror the anti-melee champ: stoneguard.
    Understanding how to effectively fight mobs is pretty key for those that want to succeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaboom2112 View Post
    Blunt breaks their DR.
    IE; bring a club.

  16. #56
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    -- just jump around on top of the melee. .
    That is one of the most stupid things a player should have to do. Unfortunately, it's how a segment of the game has to be played. Not for me, I don't do mario bros nonsense.

    pew pew pew, jump around like a flea, pew pew some more, get off a spell, rinse repeat. Yeah sounds like fun. NOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    If you die in a trap, it sort of is your fault. Unless it's my fault, then IT IS my fault


  17. #57
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagin View Post
    That is one of the most stupid things a player should have to do. Unfortunately, it's how a segment of the game has to be played. Not for me, I don't do mario bros nonsense.

    pew pew pew, jump around like a flea, pew pew some more, get off a spell, rinse repeat. Yeah sounds like fun. NOT
    In DDO, the man with the gun is the one dancing. Kobold says, "Dance Inquisitor, Dance!"

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Understanding how to effectively fight mobs is pretty key for those that want to succeed.



    IE; bring a club.
    ... til you face a zombie or a rakhasa.
    O M N I P R E S E N C E
    J i c h a e l
    -&- D i l l i n j a h

  19. #59
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LavidDynch View Post
    ... til you face a zombie or a rakhasa.
    Then you switch back to your real weapons.



    spoiler: most good players focus on DR breaking
    Last edited by Shadow_Jumper; 08-25-2019 at 03:47 AM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Then you switch back to your real weapons.



    spoiler: most good players focus on DR breaking
    Why should i use all my neural cells when i can go inqui and go pew pew pew ???
    In game in Cannith as
    Aborim Master (main toon) --- Nickallin (my tank)--- Jjnick (warlock 30) --- Nickpunick ()--- Nickruvido (my healer)--- Nickallinone (shuri build)
    KVP Korthos Village People

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