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  1. #1
    Community Member Pomdude's Avatar
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    Cool Hardcore - Nothing else

    Just wow.
    I am sold.
    Having watched experienced players too nervous to go near a trap.
    Having seen groups fill easier than i spread butter
    Having seen all quests being played
    Having heard more people speak and chat about strategy in years

    This is what dnd was always about for me. This is awesome.
    Make all servers hardcore and see what happens.

    You risk grinding for loot - you loose it - have to do it again.

    Those that survive hardcore reaper go to a reaper server (and can progress)
    Those that survive favour go to a non reaper server and progress. Being able to play to R4. If they wish to do more they need to run reaper


    Something like that.
    Get rid of all that TR'ing / grinding / moaning....
    Pom may refer to: An alternative word for the British /Polyoxymethylene, a common plastic polymer / Pompom, a decorative ball / Baby Pom, the youngest of the Fimbles /Puddle of Mudd, an American hard rock band

  2. #2
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    It is amazing how much more fun games are when you take them seriously. When you treat your character's life as if it were your own and seek to avoid death at all costs, the game is a thrilling experience. It is sad how hard it is to get people to do this on the main servers. Death is so trivial in their minds that they behave recklessly so the game becomes a grind instead of an adventure.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    It is sad how hard it is to get people to do this on the main servers. Death is so trivial in their minds that they behave recklessly so the game becomes a grind instead of an adventure.
    I don't think it's a mental thing. More of a logical response to the way the game works - the fact that your character dying in DDO has very little consequences. It almost doesn't matter the vast, vast majority of the time. If death penalties were more than just a slap on the wrist you'd see more of this type of play.

  4. #4
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    If death penalties were more than just a slap on the wrist you'd see more of this type of play.
    If we had a roll-back to the old death penalty somehow as a quest option, that would open a few eyes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Under no circumstances will tomorrow's work "fix lag".

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    I don't think it's a mental thing. More of a logical response to the way the game works - the fact that your character dying in DDO has very little consequences. It almost doesn't matter the vast, vast majority of the time. If death penalties were more than just a slap on the wrist you'd see more of this type of play.
    The thing is, it shouldn't be necessary to punish people for dying. The desire to avoid death is a visceral part of being alive. Our natural desire as humans to avoid death should be enough to keep us from taking unnecessary risks even in a game, if we are properly immersed. Part of the problem is the third person point of view (it destroys immersion to see the back of your own head and makes your mind better recognize that what you are seeing isn't real).

    For the longest time in any first-person game I played I would do everything I could to avoid dying. My heart raced when I was being hurt. In DDO, partially because games have made the third-person point of view too advantageous and partially because DDO made dying something that can happen instantly all too often, this response has largely been removed. The game was definitely more fun when dying mattered to my mind (whether or not I was punished for it).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Part of the problem is the third person point of view (it destroys immersion to see the back of your own head and makes your mind better recognize that what you are seeing isn't real).
    From my perspective third-person is necessary due to the lack of peripheral vision. The view you get in first person does not accurately reflect what you would have if peripheral vision were included. My fix for that is a close third-person view that is aware of sudden developments to the sides of my toon.

  7. #7
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    The HC server is great and i hope it keeps cycling every 90 days (or less 45-60 days may be better)!

    Once a lot of people figure out that going through on Elite gathering all Favor lowers the risk to get to endgame you will see a lot more people progress.
    At end game farm and then do Reaper mode as needed to keep the lead. You can also go back and get the favor quests done so a lot of flexibility in leveling tactics at this point.

    Shared bank and mules means you can keep good items then if you need to restart wont be as much of a hastle.

    Forcing players to collect Favor and Reaper as they progress would make it a lot more difficult but the way it is allows for more population of players throughout the levels.

    Thanks for HC SSG!
    Last edited by Coffey; 08-23-2019 at 01:52 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Maldorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pomdude View Post
    Just wow.
    I am sold.
    Having watched experienced players too nervous to go near a trap.
    Having seen groups fill easier than i spread butter
    Having seen all quests being played
    Having heard more people speak and chat about strategy in years

    This is what dnd was always about for me. This is awesome.
    Make all servers hardcore and see what happens.

    You risk grinding for loot - you loose it - have to do it again.

    Those that survive hardcore reaper go to a reaper server (and can progress)
    Those that survive favour go to a non reaper server and progress. Being able to play to R4. If they wish to do more they need to run reaper


    Something like that.
    Get rid of all that TR'ing / grinding / moaning....
    Hardcore on the real severs?

    Everytime you die in reaper you lose a reaper point.

    Hardcore.

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagin View Post
    If we had a roll-back to the old death penalty somehow as a quest option, that would open a few eyes.
    I had always felt that it was the original death penalty created the consequence of death. The penalty change actually wasn't punishing enough.

    When death has a consequence it changes how you approach situations and the "Hulk Smash" and "DPS is King" does not become the "Right way to play"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldorin View Post
    Hardcore on the real severs?

    Everytime you die in reaper you lose a reaper point.

    Hardcore.
    lol, yes! love it.

    Reminds me of the old AD&D days where (as I recall) a res cost a permanent Con point and a haste cost youayear of life ...

    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- -10 - -11- -12 - -13- -14! years & still spawning kobolds
    From Turbine to SSG, who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  11. #11
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    Ha I would NOT want to be Cordo on the day after a patch when a new bug kills off 5% of the playerbase and they all perma-die

  12. #12
    Community Member Potatofasf's Avatar
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    Great Permadeath is niche playstyle...

    Why not enforce it on everyone?

    People already did a tantrum (myself included) when Devs tried limiting the daily culture... now imagine enforce an arbitrary game mode on the live servers...

    No! Leave Hardcore server as a choice, not as mandatory.
    No Signature...

  13. #13
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    It is amazing how much more fun games are when you take them seriously. When you treat your character's life as if it were your own and seek to avoid death at all costs, the game is a thrilling experience. It is sad how hard it is to get people to do this on the main servers. Death is so trivial in their minds that they behave recklessly so the game becomes a grind instead of an adventure.
    Yeah but death is TOO painful on the hardcore server..

    Sure, it's fun for a while, for a change of pace, but dying at level 13 is pretty terrible, and if all the servers were like that, I'd probably quit at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potatofasf View Post
    Great Permadeath is niche playstyle...

    Why not enforce it on everyone?

    People already did a tantrum (myself included) when Devs tried limiting the daily culture... now imagine enforce an arbitrary game mode on the live servers...

    No! Leave Hardcore server as a choice, not as mandatory.
    ^This

    Any change that you force on all your players because some players (or devs) like it and think everyone else should too is WRONG. Let people decide for themselves and don't force anything, that breeds resentment not satisfaction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Games which not only allow, but embrace players playing differently in their own game space, succeed far more often, as well as succeed in far higher measurable degree, than those which force players into playing a specific way.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    The thing is, it shouldn't be necessary to punish people for dying. The desire to avoid death is a visceral part of being alive. Our natural desire as humans to avoid death should be enough to keep us from taking unnecessary risks even in a game, if we are properly immersed. Part of the problem is the third person point of view (it destroys immersion to see the back of your own head and makes your mind better recognize that what you are seeing isn't real).

    For the longest time in any first-person game I played I would do everything I could to avoid dying. My heart raced when I was being hurt. In DDO, partially because games have made the third-person point of view too advantageous and partially because DDO made dying something that can happen instantly all too often, this response has largely been removed. The game was definitely more fun when dying mattered to my mind (whether or not I was punished for it).
    I've thought about this quite a bit and realized I completely agree with you, though I didn't know it at first.

    I too lost my fear of death in game, and the experience paled as a result.

    For me, the loss was caused by repeatedly dying despite careful play. Around MOTU we had (for me) the first of the terrible lag, and I'd frequently be unable to move for a while, only to recover and find myself dead. I quit playing for a year, my first break from DDO, and when I came back discovered that the game was much less real for me. I didn't fear death, and didn't care nearly as much about my character.

    Today, lag and champions continue to insure I don't care that much about my characters' deaths in this game (I care in others), I can see them die with frustration not fear or regret. I try to think back to when the game really mattered to me, when it had that visceral fear you describe, but that's just not possible to sustain that suspension of disbelief when unpredictable death can be anywhere, when the laws of physics change overnight, and obvious bugs intrude on play.

    Sigh, it has so much potential ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Games which not only allow, but embrace players playing differently in their own game space, succeed far more often, as well as succeed in far higher measurable degree, than those which force players into playing a specific way.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Yeah but death is TOO painful on the hardcore server..

    Sure, it's fun for a while, for a change of pace, but dying at level 13 is pretty terrible, and if all the servers were like that, I'd probably quit at some point.
    I totally agree. Hardcore was fun for about a week, but I've lost three characters now at levels 4, 5 and 7. I think my last two character died because I was getting bored running the same low-level stuff again and again, and I kind of stopped caring. I am not going back and running Korthos, Harbor, Catacombs, Tangleroot, etc. for yet another time for a long while now, and I can't imagine how painful it would be to lose a 13th level character. The problem that everyone is missing about Hardcore, unlike PnP, is that there is no benevolent DM watching out for the players to make sure the game play experience makes sense and is fun. When you die and you lose everything you worked on in almost an instant, that's not fun. I thought the original death penalty was more of where it should be, where you lose XP. There should be more of a penalty for death on the main servers, but perma-death is way too harsh. I would end up quitting as well once I lost my characters.
    The best part of the 10th Anniversary of DDO...the description on the Oatmeal Raisin Kookie,
    "From a distance you thought this was a chocolate chip kookie. Now you're sad."

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    I totally agree. Hardcore was fun for about a week, but I've lost three characters now at levels 4, 5 and 7. I think my last two character died because I was getting bored running the same low-level stuff again and again, and I kind of stopped caring. I am not going back and running Korthos, Harbor, Catacombs, Tangleroot, etc. for yet another time for a long while now, and I can't imagine how painful it would be to lose a 13th level character. The problem that everyone is missing about Hardcore, unlike PnP, is that there is no benevolent DM watching out for the players to make sure the game play experience makes sense and is fun. When you die and you lose everything you worked on in almost an instant, that's not fun. I thought the original death penalty was more of where it should be, where you lose XP. There should be more of a penalty for death on the main servers, but perma-death is way too harsh. I would end up quitting as well once I lost my characters.
    I completely "get" where you are coming from. Maybe change your approach? You can focus on slayer areas for example for one life and go for 20 instead of favor. Then go back to questing.

    Or do a different mix each life.

    You do not have to "max" favor unless you are driving for 5K - and I think we can all see what an incredible achievement that would be for anyone who can do it.

    I did catch an at level Chrono raid this morning - it was a blast (we had 11). Keep on eye out for the unusual and you can fight the grind, be it here or on the regular channel.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- -10 - -11- -12 - -13- -14! years & still spawning kobolds
    From Turbine to SSG, who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  18. #18
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    I'd like to hit 1750 favor and lvl 20 but after that.. I have no desire to deal with the pain of doing the reaper points or 5k favor. And even then, it's only because I know that character (and others) will be getting a free transfer over to a server I play on to act as an alt that'll be alive and kicking again. If not for the transfer process, my desire for hardcore would drop drastically.

  19. #19
    Chaotic Evil Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    lol, yes! love it.

    Reminds me of the old AD&D days where (as I recall) a res cost a permanent Con point and a haste cost youayear of life ...

    I wasn't paying attention. I was 135. Sigh.

  20. #20
    Community Member Maldorin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    There should be more of a penalty for death on the main servers, but perma-death is way too harsh. I would end up quitting as well once I lost my characters.
    Or when they close the current hardcore. Open a new hardcore. Make death penalties more harsh but not permadeath and rewards greater and unique. Offer free transfers to VIP everyone else pays a little bit of points.

    Bam you have a server merge and a more interesting game in one fell swoop.

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