Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    1,307

    Default Favor on the hardcore server

    I have to bring up it here again and I try to make it as short as possible to read...

    The current rule that a character loses all favor on the leaderboard after he did a TR is in my opinion clearly unacceptable and not logically.
    If you demand us to gain the maximum possible favor within one single life then the gained favor from this life should count for the leader board.

    Currently, the most rational option is to get as much as any possible favor on one character and then you are basically stuck at this point on this character.
    Your only option to get more favor for the leaderboard is to start an all-new character, but why?
    The modest proposal here is that a character who TR and never died falls of course NOT off the favor leaderboard, because why? the player never failed and die in a quest in a whole character life!
    After a TR the favor gain on the leaderboard should be preserved because he gained this favor in a whole character life and ended this life with the consequence of not having a chance to get more favor.

    On the next life, he should have an all-new chance to get a favor.
    This absolutely conforms with the normal rules in DDO for favor and is just logical.

    The only reason I can imagine that this is not the case is, that it is just easier to code if you look upon a character for his current favor and take this information for the leaderboard and the favored reward.

    And of course also just by logic, if the character dies in another new life, the achievements only from his current life should disappear on the leaderboard.
    And the achievements from the previous lives should remain

    This proposal is in my opinion quite obviously rightful and I just hope that the developers are not deft here to a good reasoned suggestion for a change.



    Additionally to mention, that I would like that you can accumulate the favor of several lives on the leaderboard and also for the favored reward.
    But this is just a matter of my personal opinion and nothing that is evident.
    My reason is that a player can continue on his strive for more favor even after a TR and this only ends at the moment he fails.
    Always keep in mind that a character can already die by a technical issue and also this risk accumulates with each life a player dares to play one character on a hardcore server, so the achievements for each life could count.

    I don't know If I can get my current goal of 5k favor and getting level 20 at the same time done at all, I see already several players who dont take this additional risk and doing at the very end only quests on hard or even normal to get level 20 with low risk.
    I'm currently 2 ranks away from level 20 and to now try to run quests like Litany of the death (remember the force trap run at the end) on the elite is a big additional risk I would take here.
    But If I end up at the very end with not enough favor for 5k and have the only option to TR and lose my spot on the leaderboard for another chance on this character I will maybe quit on hardcore at this point even if I never died yet because this is just only a rational decision forced by the current rules.
    To start a new character under another name as Chacka is no option for me, most likely for me there is indeed one single life on hardcore and this ends when I die once on Chacka.
    But currently, it looks like I the story ends already after I got as much as possible favor without the option to TR for another attempt.
    I doubt this can be the intention of the developers to force players to do that.
    Last edited by Chacka_DDO; 08-21-2019 at 11:05 AM.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  2. #2
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    I have to bring up it here again and I try to make it as short as possible to read...

    The current rule that a character loses all favor on the leaderboard after he did a TR is in my opinion clearly unacceptable and not logically.
    If you demand us to gain the maximum possible favor within one single life then the gained favor from this life should count for the leader board.

    Currently, the most rational option is to get as much as any possible favor on one character and then you are basically stuck at this point on this character.
    Your only option to get more favor for the leaderboard is to start an all-new character, but why?
    The modest proposal here is that a character who TR and never died falls of course NOT off the favor leaderboard, because why? the player never failed and die in a quest in a whole character life!
    After a TR the favor gain on the leaderboard should be preserved because he gained this favor in a whole character life and ended this life with the consequence of not having a chance to get more favor.

    On the next life, he should have an all-new chance to get a favor.
    This absolutely conforms with the normal rules in DDO for favor and is just logical.

    The only reason I can imagine that this is not the case is, that it is just easier to code if you look upon a character for his current favor and take this information for the leaderboard and the favored reward.

    And of course also just by logic, if the character dies in another new life, the achievements only from his current life should disappear on the leaderboard.
    And the achievements from the previous lives should remain

    This proposal is in my opinion quite obviously rightful and I just hope that the developers are not deft here to a good reasoned suggestion for a change.



    Additionally to mention, that I would like that you can accumulate the favor of several lives on the leaderboard and also for the favored reward.
    But this is just a matter of my personal opinion and nothing that is evident.
    My reason is that a player can continue on his strive for more favor even after a TR and this only ends at the moment he fails.
    Always keep in mind that a character can already die by a technical issue and also this risk accumulates with each life a player dares to play one character on a hardcore server, so the achievements for each life could count.

    I don't know If I can get my current goal of 5k favor and getting level 20 at the same time done at all, I see already several players who dont take this additional risk and doing at the very end only quests on hard or even normal to get level 20 with low risk.
    I'm currently 2 ranks away from level 20 and to now try to run quests like Litany of the death (remember the force trap run at the end) on the elite is a big additional risk I would take here.
    But If I end up at the very end with not enough favor for 5k and have the only option to TR and lose my spot on the leaderboard for another chance on this character I will maybe quit on hardcore at this point even if I never died yet because this is just only a rational decision forced by the current rules.
    To start a new character under another name as Chacka is no option for me, most likely for me there is indeed one single life on hardcore and this ends when I die once on Chacka.
    But currently, it looks like I the story ends already after I got as much as possible favor without the option to TR for another attempt.
    I doubt this can be the intention of the developers to force players to do that.
    Who all is at 20 already?
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  3. #3
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    ¿
    Posts
    19,502

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Who all is at 20 already?
    A lvl 20 died the other day... chat was stunned when the death spam announced it. So, there are a few already - and I am damned impressed.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

    .57175.

  4. #4
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,542

    Default

    So your character's favor would go to zero, but your leaderboard favor would be at your pre-TR amount until you either surpassed it or died? That sounds reasonable, but I kind of doubt it's going to happen this round both for technical implementation reasons and reluctance to change the rules mid-game even if it's in a logical manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Who all is at 20 already?
    OP is very near 20 and holding levels. There are a few others. For the most part people are going all-in on the "hardcore" thing and running elite/reaper, but if you just want to get to 20 you can roll an enlightened spirit and run normal/hard.

    I think once people realize just how hard hitting 5k favor is going to be that many will drop difficulty and go for lvl20 and 1750 favor which is very doable running hard.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  5. #5
    Community Member Hallstatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    93

    Default

    My goal is reaper points and favor. On a first life, level 20 will just be a side effect of getting the favor/rpr pts I want. My character is currently level 8, but should be 11+ from the exp he has earned. Normal exp is really easy to attain when you consider the various sources which is why my sagas will most likely go to guild renown.

    I made a spreadsheet listing what quests I want to do at each level and the favor for each quest for each difficulty. Granted, I used the information recorded in the Wiki, so there may be some deviation from the actual.

    Even if I skip quests such as Slavers chain, Spies, and others, I will still be able to hit over 5k favor while holding 19 until I'm done with favor/rpr. That is using the max favor since I plan to, and have so far, run everything on R1-3 when available.

    If you are truly hardcore, you do not have to TR to get to 5k favor.

  6. #6
    DDO Players Council Renvar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,893

    Default

    If you get to 1750 or 5k favor on a character, then you earn the rewards. TRing (or dying) does not change that. You have accomplished the goal. The same with getting a character to level 20. Once you meet the requirement, you get the rewards.

    Favor absolutely should be earned in 1 life. Not aggregated across lives. That's never how favor has worked in the game and shouldn't change. Allowing favor to persist through TR would be a weakening of the challenge and counter to hard core.

    Reaper XP and AP have always persisted through TR's and should continue to do so.

    My understanding is that the leaderboard is only showing the current lives of any active characters. I don't think it was intended to be a comprehensive listing of all characters (or past lives of any character) who have ever existed.

    I think that an All Time leaderboard and an Active leader board would make sense, though, and be fun. It is interesting to know where you rank with currently playing characters as well as where you rank all time.

    That might be a good add for the next league, assuming this concept continues in the future. Adding an All Time leaderboard for the league that shows the peak values of Favor for both dead characters and active characters from a previous life as well as peak Reaper XP from all characters, living or dead, would be fun to see.
    Asheras - Velania - Renvar - Ventarya - Officer in Loreseekers and Officer of Lava Divers - Khyber

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,163

    Default

    TRing and getting more favor is not a challenge. You could just one-and-done to 20 doing easy quests and then do it again. That would make it a race.

    Making it favor from a single life, means it's hard. You have to decide, is the favor from this really tough quest worth the risk of death. For the hardcore season I think a single life makes sense for the leaderboard.

    Maybe in some later season they could make it a TR race.

    I do agree that you shouldn't lose a ranking from a prior life, but you should no longer be able to advance it if you TR.
    Last edited by Cantor; 08-21-2019 at 12:02 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,978

    Default

    I am sure they thought about all of that. However, did you pause to think that the current system is pretty much fire and forget for them. That's the genius in the idea. And boy what a money maker too. Whoever came up with it should get a huge raise. They have to do very little tinkering to implement. That means very little programming, very little debugging, very little QA, very little whining from the community. Implementing all that you ask would require a lot of programming for something they were not even sure the community would enjoy.

    I think tons of people still dont understand what they are supposed to do in the Hardcore server. The goal is not experience accumulation like on regular servers. It's not about who is first to the top of the hill. The goal is most favor (or reaper experience). For the former, I believe someone will get it. After all there is a finite amount. Every favor accumulating thing must be done. And it's possible to screw yourself even if you are a great player, racing to the top alive if you dont ponder what you are doing. They already cheated a lot of people by changing the rules once. I hope they don't muck around anymore.

  9. #9
    Hero Noir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    529

    Default TR by definition is a Death

    True Reincarnation by definition could only be accomplished after you die.
    IMO to TR should be counted as a death.

    So once and done for any hardcore character.
    Originally Posted by grodon9999
    "I'm beginning to think a lot of people play this game because it's cheaper than paying for a Dominatrix."
    Disciplines Disciples - 54 Alts on Khyber and counting

  10. #10
    2015 DDO Players Council
    Axel's DDO Channel
    axel15810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    3,664

    Default

    At the end of the day this affects very, very few people I would imagine. 5k favor is an incredibly difficult challenge when you can't run stuff way overlevel for favor and can't die at all.

    As far as the favor leaderboards go, I think it's more interesting when the few people at the top may be forced to play the more risky quests in order to gain a few favor points to take that number 1 spot.

    Being able to TR and cumulatively add more lives favor as additional favor would instead emphasize raw playtime a lot more than actual skill/running risky stuff, which I don't think is as interesting. Makes it a grind based competition instead of one that is more based on skill.

    That's why I like the idea of being confined to one life and one character and having to go after those difficult quests to win the leaderboard than having to just run a fairly safe elite path from 1-20 for many, many lives to win the favor leaderboard.
    Last edited by axel15810; 08-21-2019 at 01:26 PM.

  11. #11
    Hero
    Knight of Movember
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Hafeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    at a keyboard
    Posts
    6,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    At the end of the day this affects very, very few people I would imagine. 5k favor is an incredibly difficult challenge when you can't run stuff way overlevel for favor and can't die at all.

    As far as the favor leaderboards go, I think it's more interesting when the few people at the top may be forced to play the more risky quests in order to gain a few favor points to take that number 1 spot.

    Being able to TR and cumulatively add more lives favor as additional favor would instead emphasize raw playtime a lot more than actual skill/running risky stuff, which I don't think is as interesting. Makes it a grind based competition instead of one that is more based on skill.

    That's why I like the idea of being confined to one life and one character and having to go after those difficult quests to win the leaderboard than having to just run a fairly safe elite path from 1-20 for many, many lives to win the favor leaderboard.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    I just made 6, holding 7, and not only am I being selective about what I run already - but when I run them and with whom. I cannot imagine what the tension will grow to if I can continue to make it higher. That is the beauty of this challenege.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- -10 - -11- -12!! years & still spawning kobolds
    From Turbine to SSG, who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  12. #12
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    1,307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    TRing and getting more favor is not a challenge. You could just one-and-done to 20 doing easy quests and then do it again. That would make it a race.

    Making it favor from a single life, means it's hard. You have to decide, is the favor from this really tough quest worth the risk of death. For the hardcore season I think a single life makes sense for the leaderboard.

    Maybe in some later season they could make it a TR race.
    I the point is of course that it is another kind of challenge then, to take away how you accumulate the most favor/time but I think I clearly said that I see this as only my opinion and a leaderboard who accepts only one life is also a reasonable way.
    At the end it is anyway hard to tell who earned a higher ranking, e.g. if someone was in the first month at a high rank it was maybe harder to get this from him because the server was all fresh and e.g. there where no items to buy on the AH or shard exchange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    I do agree that you shouldn't lose a ranking from a prior life, but you should no longer be able to advance it if you TR.
    As I said this is the modest proposal because it should be simple possible to try again in a new life on the same character and to have a character stuck at a point where he did everything possible at his level and cannot go back to the previous levels feels just not right for me.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  13. #13
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    1,307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    True Reincarnation by definition could only be accomplished after you die.
    IMO to TR should be counted as a death.

    So once and done for any hardcore character.
    Such kind of hair-splitting leads nowhere, DDO is a game and the point is simple and evident, what you have achieved in one level playing a character from level 1-x should be preserved when you end this life voluntarily without the chance to go back and increase the amount of favor.
    And the slight real advantage from having one additional TR on a character on a hardcore server is for sure well deserved in my opinion.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  14. #14
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Berlin Germany
    Posts
    1,307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    At the end of the day this affects very, very few people I would imagine. 5k favor is an incredibly difficult challenge when you can't run stuff way overlevel for favor and can't die at all.

    As far as the favor leaderboards go, I think it's more interesting when the few people at the top may be forced to play the more risky quests in order to gain a few favor points to take that number 1 spot.

    Being able to TR and cumulatively add more lives favor as additional favor would instead emphasize raw playtime a lot more than actual skill/running risky stuff, which I don't think is as interesting. Makes it a grind based competition instead of one that is more based on skill.

    That's why I like the idea of being confined to one life and one character and having to go after those difficult quests to win the leaderboard than having to just run a fairly safe elite path from 1-20 for many, many lives to win the favor leaderboard.
    As I said this point is just only my opinion and for sure debatable.
    But in my opinion, it is simply not acceptable that your favor achievement from your previous life is erased from the leaderboard when you die in your next life.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload