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  1. #1
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Default Crystal Cove unplayable in last few days

    In the last few days, the kobolds in Crystal Cove have had fatal pathing problems, often to the point of preventing the challenge from being completable.

    From the start, only placing torches to the southern cave, and without touching any torches in the starting configuration nor adding any E/W near the ramp, kobolds are beelining to the upper ramp, which results in them missing the lower side ramp and simply running face-first into the wall, stalling out and staying there. Only solution is to commit a teleporter to that area (or use DD to cut them off before they get there).

    Several times in the last days I've been in competent groups and we've suddenly noticed "no kobolds running line" - and found all 10 stalled out, chose to quit rather than hope we could 1-star. Just now I tried to solo it, twice - and between losing workers to this bug in the critical early minutes of the challenge, them not running from "incoming", and having to use one of my teleporters to try to (often only partially) solve it - failed both times.

    I'm not the only one - this is from a related thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicis View Post
    I've noticed this weekend pathing seems to be messed up in the CC challenge dungeon. Kobolds and Mobs both would try to take the shortest path, get stuck on a wall and just stay there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
    ... and I noticed the old "kobolds run around back of the ramp and get stuck" problem in crystal cove the other night. That last one was so bad a few years back that I gave up on Cove ..
    Something indeed has changed there.

    Don't know if this is adequate cause to ask for CC to be extended (or, better, to return as soon as this is solved), but I can vouch that I must have lost well over 1,000 green dragonshards to this bug - and I could really use those right now, in the closing hours of the event. :/

    As always, thanks for your work and consideration in this matter.

  2. #2
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    With my 'Crystal Cove' PUG runs on Thelanis this year, we only had 1 single Kobold bug on the ramp so that's fewer than usually occurs.

    However, during some previous years after "Cove" had been running for several days... If it had extremely high player participation; you'd get a lot of Kobolds start malfunctioning more frequently.

    Historic Post:
    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    During this last weekend; in the daily Cove PUGs I was leading, it appeared Kobold sense-of-direction was haywire at times... It appeared to get much worse regarding the Kobolds getting stuck and falling off the ramp, or running up at the wall faces of the ramp; as the last two days of the Event progressed.

    On at least four separate occasions the "Progenitor carrying Kobold" stepped off the ramp and couldn't be coerced back up it...

    I remember twice, he ended up on the north face of the ramp and couldn't be unstuck. One time he even walked off the ramp and actually, still walked northwards into the north wall and wouldn't turn around towards the ramp.

    Another time; he fell off onto the south side and just refused to move left (west), back onto the ramp. Unfortunately I only made one screenshot of him when he was stuck on the south, at the base of the ramp. After nearly half a dozen times; it was starting to wear thin the Progenitor carrying Kobold antics of slipping off. ...
    Also remember you should not fiddle with any of the Torches on the ramp higher than the corner torch or that can lead to issues. Furthermore if the Kobolds get afraid, go into flee mode or cower (via mobs getting too close). You sometimes have to talk to them before they'll reset and go in the correct direction again.

  3. #3
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    With my 'Crystal Cove' PUG runs on Thelanis this year, we only had 1 single Kobold bug on the ramp so that's fewer than usually occurs...
    I ran several runs last week - no (noticeable) problems. With a competent group, a good map yielded 650-750 GDS, a mediocre one ~3-400.*

    (* @ New(er) players - Pro groups abandon "bad" maps and start over, btw - if your scouts aren't seeing purples in one direction or another, just scratch it and try again. The door is open for 40 minutes, it's 20 minutes/run - you can start a couple times and still get the 2nd run in, np. )

    This week, those same maps were suddenly less than half, as often the entire kobold work force was found head-butting the base of the ramp, zero crystals flowing in. Without the full work force, clearing the distracting crystals to the progen crystal went more slowly, so that failed a surprising and frustrating number of times. Less kobolds moving meant fewer going through teleporters. Incoming threats found easy targets in kobolds who were not moving to start with, so additional stars and perfect scores were yanked out from under us by no fault of our own. And so on, and so on.

    Normally I can solo on my slow warlock for a couple hundred - failed 4 times in a row, not even quota (tho' close every time, just to twist the knife); spent the whole time trying to entice kobolds up the ramp so I could get something going, then would scout and clear, and come back only to find to the same thing.

    Something changed.


    (And while I do thank SSG for leaving it up an extra day (so far!)... what's the point? Even in /chat, you can hear the frustrated resignation of vet players with top toons who are seeing coordination and good play net 175-250 GDS, where it should be 3x that much. Just... unappealing. And I love this event. )

  4. #4
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    Some of the Professional Torch Runners have 'great difficulty' if Progenitor is located at certain positions and may ask for a reset. Whereas with other experienced runners it hardly affects their ability assuming the PUG cooperates and knows their roles.

    The PUG Torch Runner I mostly ran with this year has an unconventional method of using triangles but was averaging well over 750+ reward payout regardless. I have had him in my groups some previous years because I remember his strange torch positioning method.

    It's very likely the servers are getting stressed or slightly unstable with the length of time Crystal Cove has been up and running and hence Kobold behaviour is more noticeably deteriorating. In addition they have the Hardcore Server running, which might be taking a small fraction of resources. I suspect they left Cove open a few more days simply because they couldn't be bothered to turn it off. Though I do agree if the Kobolds have got to such a poor state where they are nearly all repetitively slipping off ramps when trying to climb them and other bizarre antics, etc. Then it might be worth waiting until the next time the Event comes around.

  5. #5
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Very possible - clearly "something".

    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    The PUG Torch Runner I mostly ran with this year has an unconventional method of using triangles but was averaging well over 750+ reward payout regardless. I have had him in my groups some previous years because I remember his strange torch positioning method.
    I'm intrigued - "triangles" - care to expand on this? Did he use more torches to create the sort of "area" pattern that we see initially at the base of the ramp, so workers can expand out in any direction directly over a scattered field of crystals?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    In the last few days, the kobolds in Crystal Cove have had fatal pathing problems, often to the point of preventing the challenge from being completable.

    From the start, only placing torches to the southern cave, and without touching any torches in the starting configuration nor adding any E/W near the ramp, kobolds are beelining to the upper ramp, which results in them missing the lower side ramp and simply running face-first into the wall, stalling out and staying there. Only solution is to commit a teleporter to that area (or use DD to cut them off before they get there).

    Several times in the last days I've been in competent groups and we've suddenly noticed "no kobolds running line" - and found all 10 stalled out, chose to quit rather than hope we could 1-star. Just now I tried to solo it, twice - and between losing workers to this bug in the critical early minutes of the challenge, them not running from "incoming", and having to use one of my teleporters to try to (often only partially) solve it - failed both times.

    I'm not the only one - this is from a related thread...


    Something indeed has changed there.

    Don't know if this is adequate cause to ask for CC to be extended (or, better, to return as soon as this is solved), but I can vouch that I must have lost well over 1,000 green dragonshards to this bug - and I could really use those right now, in the closing hours of the event. :/

    As always, thanks for your work and consideration in this matter.

    I have observed the same issue in CC challenge, but also noticed the same behavior in House C kobold challenges, so the issue is systemic to kobold pathing across all challenges. Could we please get a response from the Dev's that this topic is recognized and will be addressed since it is not "just" the seasonal challenge that is affected? Thanks!

  7. #7
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    This problem only started 72hrs ago, the last 2 days of CC atrocious ...

    Hires was bad enough, stupid koblods trying to be spiderman was worse, my very last run, only got 7 shards, because koblods was on the wall like wallpaper...

  8. #8
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    this was something I had noticed after the patch, but the patch should had nothing to do with it

    before patch average 130+ dragon shards, after patch 60, . . . . before patch no fails, after patch half my runs were fails, because the koblods would just go to the second from ramp bottom torch and turn to run back up the ramp.

    I want to scream it was the patch that screwed it up, but am sure it's just coincidence


    what I ended up doing was herding the koblods, by removing the torches so they could not go back, essentially making them only go where they're supposed to
    also noticed, koblods sometimes, not using the teleport, they would just run by it and do that long run back

  9. #9
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    Same problem. I submitted a bug report and screenies to show the problem.

    And it was a catch 22 They did this at the start, getting stranded under the ramp when you only had 1-3 crystals collected, so you couldn't buy a teleporter to plant next to them.

    It was a pain because the 5 times I experienced this, I had just turned in a Torch and Kobold Requisition (100 DDO pts x5 = 500) that were wasted b/c we had to restart the challenge
    Last edited by Fenrisulven7; 08-21-2019 at 07:22 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrXaatXuun View Post
    also noticed, koblods sometimes, not using the teleport, they would just run by it and do that long run back
    That one is typical koblod dumbness...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NemesisAlien View Post
    That one is typical koblod dumbness...
    guess this means I'll need to go back to Water Works and reeducate them

  12. #12
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrXaatXuun View Post
    guess this means I'll need to go back to Water Works and reeducate them

  13. #13
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    The 'Torch Runner' I was with, built that Character specifically for running Crystal Cove.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    I'm intrigued - "triangles" - care to expand on this? Did he use more torches to create the sort of "area" pattern that we see initially at the base of the ramp, so workers can expand out in any direction directly over a scattered field of crystals?
    As you are aware 'narrow triangles' within the torch line can cause the Kobolds to completely bug or at best it slows them down - in most cases as they get confused as which line to follow.

    However, what he tends to do is make large triangles at strategic points and if you get it right; it allows the Kobolds to gather in a larger radius. They won't actually waste time going down a dead end branch if its setup correctly. Typically a triangle is just one (optimal) Torch length apart but there might be multiples triangles.

    I'd say his "triangles" are smaller in general than the initial ones but it's a similar idea. I would suspect it wastes a few torches but since he has the speed (and method) he's going to be repositioning them at various intervals. Albeit it still results in a higher yield of Green Dragonshards because the Kobolds will travel further away from the line to gather. So it maybe wastes a torch or two temporarily but can save time as you don't need to lay more torches to get the further away Dragonshards.

    It seems counter intuitive but if done correctly at the appropriate places it does actually work as it increases their potential travelling range in all directions. If not done correctly they'd travel down one on the triangle paths to the adjacent torch and waste time searching. He's fine-tuned it over the years; I actually helped him a tiny bit several years ago, to improve his unusual method.

    I don't think anyone else in the Professional Runner league I have run with uses that method, but it certainly works for him. He can "6-Star" and regularly got over 750 Green Dragonshard final reward this year.

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