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  1. #1
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Default Hardcore League Question for the Devs

    If you run heroic shroud, will your toon be unable to continue?
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  2. #2
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    It's already been confirmed that you can run Shroud but will die once someone hits the portal from Part 4 to reach Part 5, and it will count as perma death. So you can run all the way up to the end of Part 4 "safely". But don't hit the portal. But that's really too big a risk anyway, since all it takes is one click to ruin everyones day/week/month.

    J1NG
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  3. #3
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    This has been answered in the Hardcore League FAQ, but for your convenience I've transcribed it below :)

    The Shroud kills you, does that count?

    Yes, dead is dead. We do not recommend doing this quest.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  4. #4
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Default Favor and TR

    A question that remains for me uncertain is what happens if you TR on the hardcore server?
    Will the favor you got be removed from the leader board or do you keep it or do you even add the favor from the next life to it?
    And for the total 5k favor reward is it only the favor from one life that can count or from several lives?
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    A question that remains for me uncertain is what happens if you TR on the hardcore server?
    Will the favor you got be removed from the leader board or do you keep it or do you even add the favor from the next life to it?
    And for the total 5k favor reward is it only the favor from one life that can count or from several lives?
    This is mentioned in the FAQ. You lose the favour as normal when you TR.

  6. #6
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This has been answered in the Hardcore League FAQ, but for your convenience I've transcribed it below
    TYTY.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    A question that remains for me uncertain is what happens if you TR on the hardcore server?
    Will the favor you got be removed from the leader board or do you keep it or do you even add the favor from the next life to it?
    And for the total 5k favor reward is it only the favor from one life that can count or from several lives?
    This was gonna be my second Q.

    Will TRing reset favor?
    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffWatson View Post
    This is mentioned in the FAQ. You lose the favour as normal when you TR.
    If true, that's rough. Screw bothering for favor.
    Last edited by Shadow_Jumper; 08-19-2019 at 03:37 AM.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  7. #7
    Community Member Epicstorms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This has been answered in the Hardcore League FAQ, but for your convenience I've transcribed it below
    Although you guys have answered this a few times by now, I still think it is one of the most awkward things lately.. that you guys are unable or unwilling to get this fixed appropriately.

  8. #8
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    Default Tale of almost death at least

    I had a very close call at around level 4, about as close as you can get tbh.
    In recovering the lost tome, at full hp I went to turn of one of the lightning traps using the runes, rolled a 1 on my save just as I disabled it and ended up on -9hp.
    And it was almost 15 seconds before a fellow party member tossed me a heal. It seems I had stabilized during that time at a 5% chance.

    Still going strong at the moment at level 10, with 11 in the bank. Working on level 6 quest favor.

    Well, that's odd, I replied to the thread "Tales of death"
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  9. #9
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinary View Post
    Well, that's odd, I replied to the thread "Tales of death"
    ^^
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  10. #10
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Default a TR is not mentioned in the FAQ as far as I can see

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffWatson View Post
    This is mentioned in the FAQ. You lose the favour as normal when you TR.
    Maybe I missed something?
    Of course, you will reset to 0 favor on your Adventure Compendium, nothing else is to expect BUT it remains uncertain what happens to the leader board (besides you can quote here the phrase that proves me wrong and I have not read somehow even after rereading it)

    The FAQ only says you fall off the leader board when you DIE not when you TR.
    Therefore it still remains uncertain for me if you just keep the achieved favor or if you can even add the favor from the next life or if you fall off the leader board.

    Sorry to tell that but some things are seemingly not well thought out as the lockout of some player areas that prevents you from doing the quests inside when too high for the connection area but not too high for the quest itself.

    And please dont tell me this is WAI and you have counted this in (you = the developers).
    Because you are also locked out from Relic of a Sovereign Past and Made to Order besides you have not forgotten it and expect the players to do a level 11 and 12 quests (on normal) at level 5
    (sorry for being a bit sarcastic but this gave me a *facepalm moment as I realized it on hardcore)

    I just hope you have some greatness and admit your mistake and act soon (you = the developers)

    And also with the 5k favor, I have the slight impression that it is just a number out of the air and I wonder if you are really serious that we have to do it on ONE live.
    If we can accumulate the favor for several lives, this would be at least a reasonable demand.
    And before you say that's too easy then, I tell you that you can also accumulate the reaper exp from several lives, so why not?
    (same for the leader board, this should also work with several lives for a favor)
    (you = everyone who reads it, players and developers)

    And please dont get me wrong, I currently really enjoy the Hardcore idea, but as usual, not everything is perfect and even less on the first try.

    Other things that need additional thoughts is if you can prove that really a considered bug killed you like the well known persistent damage overtime problem.
    Actually, two group members died on this in heroic chronoscope on elite I was hit by it too, but I had more HP than them and a finish out removed this DoT and the healer kept me alive until this.
    It's just stupid if you get something difficult done without any death (if you count in the risk of permadeath) and then some die on a bug.

    My thought is it would be better if it is just a bit less hardcore even if now some cry NOOO...
    My suggestion would be that a character is only for a certain time not available when he dies (like you loses 1-2 days on your char) and/or you maybe lose also some of your favor and reaper exp (if not all).
    This is less harsh then and death due to a real bug or a true technical issue (power down within a fight and you are solo) would be not that much unfair as it is now.
    But I just assume the answer is a single worded no! and you even feel great with it...

    And yea, believe me, I want this server as much as possible fun and also still challenging this is why I take my time to write this here.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  11. #11
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    Here you go chacka, lynnabel quote from lama
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ns#post6236836
    If you would like to Reincarnate in a way that would reset your Favor, keep in mind that this reset to 0 Favor will likely push you off of the leaderboard.

    now please kindly die already and return to ghallanda, we need your lfms good luck

  12. #12
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Here you go chacka, lynnabel quote from lama
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ns#post6236836
    If you would like to Reincarnate in a way that would reset your Favor, keep in mind that this reset to 0 Favor will likely push you off of the leaderboard.

    now please kindly die already and return to ghallanda, we need your lfms good luck
    Ok, thank you for this quote.
    Then I have to say that this makes not much sense at all because you actually dont die when you TR and therefore it is not really fair if also your leaderboard favor is reset.
    And sorry, I still have the impression that this was not really intended because of its IMO just not logical.

    And yup if I die I maybe dont try again lol.
    For me, death is what counts for your achievements on such a server and not something that is within the borders of the game rules of DDO like a TR!

    By the way, also level 17 with almost level 19 banked currently but my plan is to get as much as possible favor before I take level 20 at the end.
    This is also an additional risk I take lol and most likely it's impossible to get 5k favor because of too many quests are not accessible due to the lockout problem on connection areas to quests and even bugs (like the titan raid is seemingly currently bugged and cannot be finished)

    Not to mention that you have a hard time to get the maximum possible favor on ONE live when there is actually only a single person available who is in the same level range. (and not a person who gold rolled level 20)
    I really hope I dont lose my new friend Arealbronx who plays his fvs really awesome! (he just got his well-earned wings in level 17).
    And of course, I hope for him he dont has to continue on a lonely journey too
    Last edited by Chacka_DDO; 08-19-2019 at 12:42 PM.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  13. #13
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    If my theory is right, You can complete the Shroud.


    1. Everyone except for one logs off all.
    2. The victim touches the portal
    3. He dies.
    4. Some seconds later, people log in.
    5. They go through the portal when the event is done.
    6. And respect the victim's sacrifice.


    ----
    Edit: You might want to log in after the death event is done.
    Last edited by Targal; 08-19-2019 at 02:33 PM.
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  14. #14
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    If my theory is right, You can complete the Shroud.


    1. Everyone except for one logs off all.
    2. The victim touches the portal
    3. He dies.
    4. Some seconds later, people log in.
    5. They go through the portal when the event is done.
    6. And respect the victim's sacrifice.
    Please do this. I want to witness the nerd rage on the forums followed by the above quote and subsequent "Lock out" by the developers.
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  15. #15
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    If my theory is right, You can complete the Shroud.


    1. Everyone except for one logs off all.
    2. The victim touches the portal
    3. He dies.
    4. Some seconds later, people log in.
    5. They go through the portal when the event is done.
    6. And respect the victim's sacrifice.


    ----
    Edit: You might want to log in after the death event is done.
    Genius. But I'm still not 100% sure if this would save you. IIRC you would still die traveling through the portal, even after the mass death. Worth a test though, and also, this would setup one of the biggest troll events ever
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    Maybe I missed something?
    Of course, you will reset to 0 favor on your Adventure Compendium, nothing else is to expect BUT it remains uncertain what happens to the leader board (besides you can quote here the phrase that proves me wrong and I have not read somehow even after rereading it)

    The FAQ only says you fall off the leader board when you DIE not when you TR.
    Therefore it still remains uncertain for me if you just keep the achieved favor or if you can even add the favor from the next life or if you fall off the leader board.

    Sorry to tell that but some things are seemingly not well thought out as the lockout of some player areas that prevents you from doing the quests inside when too high for the connection area but not too high for the quest itself.

    And please dont tell me this is WAI and you have counted this in (you = the developers).
    Because you are also locked out from Relic of a Sovereign Past and Made to Order besides you have not forgotten it and expect the players to do a level 11 and 12 quests (on normal) at level 5
    (sorry for being a bit sarcastic but this gave me a *facepalm moment as I realized it on hardcore)

    I just hope you have some greatness and admit your mistake and act soon (you = the developers)

    And also with the 5k favor, I have the slight impression that it is just a number out of the air and I wonder if you are really serious that we have to do it on ONE live.
    If we can accumulate the favor for several lives, this would be at least a reasonable demand.
    And before you say that's too easy then, I tell you that you can also accumulate the reaper exp from several lives, so why not?
    (same for the leader board, this should also work with several lives for a favor)
    (you = everyone who reads it, players and developers)

    And please dont get me wrong, I currently really enjoy the Hardcore idea, but as usual, not everything is perfect and even less on the first try.

    Other things that need additional thoughts is if you can prove that really a considered bug killed you like the well known persistent damage overtime problem.
    Actually, two group members died on this in heroic chronoscope on elite I was hit by it too, but I had more HP than them and a finish out removed this DoT and the healer kept me alive until this.
    It's just stupid if you get something difficult done without any death (if you count in the risk of permadeath) and then some die on a bug.

    My thought is it would be better if it is just a bit less hardcore even if now some cry NOOO...
    My suggestion would be that a character is only for a certain time not available when he dies (like you loses 1-2 days on your char) and/or you maybe lose also some of your favor and reaper exp (if not all).
    This is less harsh then and death due to a real bug or a true technical issue (power down within a fight and you are solo) would be not that much unfair as it is now.
    But I just assume the answer is a single worded no! and you even feel great with it...

    And yea, believe me, I want this server as much as possible fun and also still challenging this is why I take my time to write this here.
    As you say, area lockout must not have been thought through. Sure, it is okay that you have to run a few quests a bit earlier than 4 levels above because of the lockout (though you have to do homework to find out which ones they are), but the adventure area leading to Made to Order and Relic is definitely a serious problem.

    I think the favor system is working well. You have the very easy goal (get to level 20) which can be done running quests only on causal (remember we are all first lifers so we level at twice the normal speed). You have your moderate challenge goals (get 1750 favor and 10 reaper points) and your significant challenge goals (get 5000 favor and 20 reaper points). As someone that gets over 5000 favor every life I know it can be done without raids even if you do skip some of the quests (like Made to Order and Relic apparently). I would not be against them requiring us to get 20 reaper points in a single life, but it is fine if they let you TR to accumulate reaper points. However getting 5000 favor really should be in one life. That is the big challenge of the server.

    I would also point out that the first step in reincarnation is dying. First you die, then you are born into a new body. That is the general concept of reincarnation.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffWatson View Post
    This is mentioned in the FAQ. You lose the favour as normal when you TR.
    imo favor should reset when you TR; however the leaderboards should use your highest favor from any lives you've done. If you get 2k favor on one life and TR you should stay on the leaderboard until you either surpass that in a future life or die.
    Afunkymunky/Drkivorkian, Helter Skelter on Ghallanda

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  18. #18
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    As you say, area lockout must not have been thought through. Sure, it is okay that you have to run a few quests a bit earlier than 4 levels above because of the lockout (though you have to do homework to find out which ones they are), but the adventure area leading to Made to Order and Relic is definitely a serious problem.

    I think the favor system is working well. You have the very easy goal (get to level 20) which can be done running quests only on causal (remember we are all first lifers so we level at twice the normal speed). You have your moderate challenge goals (get 1750 favor and 10 reaper points) and your significant challenge goals (get 5000 favor and 20 reaper points). As someone that gets over 5000 favor every life I know it can be done without raids even if you do skip some of the quests (like Made to Order and Relic apparently). I would not be against them requiring us to get 20 reaper points in a single life, but it is fine if they let you TR to accumulate reaper points. However getting 5000 favor really should be in one life. That is the big challenge of the server.

    I would also point out that the first step in reincarnation is dying. First you die, then you are born into a new body. That is the general concept of reincarnation.
    Sorry for the wall of text and my bad English as usual... but it's hard for me to put into a few incisive words what I have to say here

    I know well that you can justify it this way but if you consider that some quests area already very dangerous on elite on this server and some are epic only the 5k sound may be more doable for you than it is actually.
    Currently, it looks like that not even the top 100 on the leader board will reach 5k at the end.
    And my point here is that it is questionable that you have a goal that high that only the top 5% can actually do it.
    My opinion is that the reaper cosmetics should be doable for the majority if they try hard enough...
    And the leaderboard is to show that you even better than that.

    Btw some here say that 5k is not possible due to the issue with the slayer area and many (including me) were not even aware of this issue and lost alone for that reason favor.

    Sorry when I just speculate here but I assume that your opinion is most likely based on your experience on the normal server.
    And there I get 6k+ favor almost every life but this is very different.
    I have the impression that the 5k goal on ONE life is based on a bad estimation of a developer, to be honest.
    Like: ok we can get 6300 favor max so 5k should be fine and this is also the goal for the +5 tome for a favor, makes some sense after all, no?
    I can understand it and it is ofc only my opinion and not a fact what is right or wrong.
    Personally, I think at the modest favor for the cosmetics and leader board should be cumulated on several lives if you were able to TR.
    But to just lower the favor to 4k would be also an option and for sure easier to implement after the server already started.
    And btw I have 2597 atm, that's #1, the second play now with me a lot and got 2235 (btw I would say Arealbronx performs actually better than me and he is only noot #1 because he left out more quests than me) and the third is only at 1673.
    And I was totally exhausted yesterday and I see the great risk for me in some quests.
    The last quest I did before stop playing, for now, was Invaders, I tell you this quest got a completely different meaning on a first lifer who is not allowed to die a single time.
    Like the formal #3 died on elite within 1 second on the traps you cannot disable in Ghola Fan and he lost everything on that.
    Another example is 2 players died in slave lords part 1 just only because they tried to catch up in an almost completely cleared quest, Idk how, maybe traps but I even told them to be careful and how to walk.
    And I almost died on the persistent damage over time bug in chronoscope elite (two of my party members suffered this destiny)

    It is very easy to tell how easy something is if you not actually try to do it (this is also a mistake I do too often)
    I think I can tell something about how it actually feels on this server for a player who is seemingly not that bad playing if he is, for now, several days #1 there (only the favor board but this is the subject here after all)
    And dont get me wrong I dont expect it remains like this I would be very surprised, I dont rate my play skills very high, I have currently the right mix of being careful and fast enough.
    But others will learn quickly and most likely pass me and in addition, I'm now very exhausted and really need a BIG break...

    BTW on the lvl 20, I agree but to play all quests on casual is also work for weeks for many players even on casual and currently, you can even gold-roll this goal.
    (Remember here what I said that I think the cosmetics should be doable for the majority)
    But for those who want to have favor and maybe even reaper favor, this is MUCH harder to get as you can see on the countless death massages on this server.
    Also here you are allowed to estimate the actual difficulty (like the developers quite obviously did) but it is recommended to really try it for a better-founded opinion.
    if e.g. Steelstar said he died at lvl 7
    "My first Hardcore League character died in the same quest - Champion on the top floor hit me good with a spell, and managed to hit me with another before my Cure spell finished. Was level 6 holding 7."
    It is at least a sign that it's maybe not as easy as you think, most deaths seemingly happen at level 5-6 btw.
    Also a noticeable number of deaths in lvl 2, I just assume by players who think Korthos is super easy on elite on an almost naked level 1-2 character...

    No offense, here, I hope you see that I also just try my best like you most likely do.
    Last edited by Chacka_DDO; 08-20-2019 at 07:14 AM.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
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    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
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  19. #19
    The Bashful Balladeer nazgul748's Avatar
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    Another question...

    Is the lock-out on level 20 characters entering non-reaper heroic quests WAI? It wasn't mentioned in any post that I have been able to find.

  20. #20
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazgul748 View Post
    Another question...

    Is the lock-out on level 20 characters entering non-reaper heroic quests WAI? It wasn't mentioned in any post that I have been able to find.
    I asked for this already here and no answer so far, there is, of course, a low chance that they just copied the code for the new reaper lockout and only changed the massage to not allowed in hardcore but this is yet unknown.
    As you said this rule was not announced for casual, normal, hard and elite and alone for this reason it should be dropped in my opinion.
    In dubio pro rea - erm, I mean pro player
    And this rule is even for reaper dubious because in the common D&D rules a level 20 character is still not epic, they are heroic or paragon.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

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