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  1. #1
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Default Deepwood Stalker Ideas

    TLDR: Some mook asking for better support for a dead build.

    Back in 2011-2014 I played a Fury Tempest this build was melee 90% of the time and switched to Bow for FuryShot. I would like to see the return of a build like this (I'm fine with it needing to switch to bow more often) I also don't think it needs to be a Tempest so Stalker is a good place to help make this build possible. Right now Stalker is a good tree from 0-4 tiers but not very good at tier 5 these suggestion are to try and make Stalker work in much the same way the old Fury Tempest did. The idea is you start with a bow then switch to melee once enemies close.

    • Called Shot, Aimed Shot, and Leg Shot should have grant both melee and ranged version.
    • Cores need to add something to help with itemization my suggestions are
      • Advanced Sneak Attack add 50% of Melee Power is applied to Ranged Power
      • Mark of the Hunter add 50% of Doublestrike is applied to Doubleshot
      • I understand that the Vistani Weapon Versatility left a bad taste that's why this is a % increase so that in can be scaled as needed and only one way
    • Add Doubleshot Shot Boost as an action boost option.
    • Combine Thrill of the Hunt and Extra Favored Enemy as a tier 3 (mostly to make room in tier 5 for a new enhancement)
    • Change Heavy Draw to apply 1.5 stat to bows and main hand attacks
    • Change Strike like Lightning to 10% Doublestrike, Offhand Doublestrike, and 15% Doubleshot (The other 5% comes back with Mark of the Hunter Change).
    • Add 5 Melee Power to Improved Archers focus maybe remove the 5 Ranged Power
    • Add new tier 5 Grants a Ranged and Melee Attack.
      • Storm of Arrows: (Ranged Attack) +1.5[w] shot 3 arrows at target 5 second cooldown (each arrow should have a chance to doubleshot)
      • Storm of Blades: (Melee Cleave Attack) +4[w] respects doublestrike, offhand proc rate, and offhand doublestrike (can proc 1-4 attacks per target) 5 second cooldown


    No clue if Storm of Arrows is broken or OP or under powered but its the kind of think I would want in order to look at Fury and to switch to bow for Adrenaline use.

  2. #2
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Good ideas.

    + Merciful Shot: 500pts damage at half hp hardly scales into epics, it would be a nice to have 2 more ranks for
    T2 +2 AP =>4W, 130% RP scaling
    T3 +2 AP =>5W, 150% RP scaling, cooldown to 12s.

    Head Shot: => 10W
    , getting an arrow at the head should hurt



    The big deal about stalker would be stealth bonuses, but we all know how useful those are in DDO these days .

    - lack of stealth support
    - hybrids < specialists ( minmaxing is better )

  3. #3
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    I dont think DWS is intended to be a hybrid build like that. I think its intended to be either melee OR ranged - to pair with either Tempest or AA on a pure Ranger.

  4. #4
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I dont think DWS is intended to be a hybrid build like that. I think its intended to be either melee OR ranged - to pair with either Tempest or AA on a pure Ranger.
    Nope, the intention of the developers when they reworked the tree was the make it the hybrid (uses ranged and melee) tree if you took it as your main tree. Which IMO needs improvements mostly in the Tier 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    • In the end, we see a character that chooses to take Deepwood Stalker as their main tree being a character that wants to switch between Melee and Ranged depending on the situation; the changes we want to make to the tree are the changes that will support that, especially in T5 and later Cores. The results should be viable (we are doing internal DPS testing at the moment with the current round of changes), but not necessarily top-of-the-line in terms of DPS, because some of the damage is traded for versatility.

  5. #5
    Community Member Requiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    TLDR: Some mook asking for better support for a dead build.

    Back in 2011-2014 I played a Fury Tempest this build was melee 90% of the time and switched to Bow for FuryShot. I would like to see the return of a build like this (I'm fine with it needing to switch to bow more often) I also don't think it needs to be a Tempest so Stalker is a good place to help make this build possible. Right now Stalker is a good tree from 0-4 tiers but not very good at tier 5 these suggestion are to try and make Stalker work in much the same way the old Fury Tempest did. The idea is you start with a bow then switch to melee once enemies close.

    • Called Shot, Aimed Shot, and Leg Shot should have grant both melee and ranged version.
    • Cores need to add something to help with itemization my suggestions are
      • Advanced Sneak Attack add 50% of Melee Power is applied to Ranged Power
      • Mark of the Hunter add 50% of Doublestrike is applied to Doubleshot
      • I understand that the Vistani Weapon Versatility left a bad taste that's why this is a % increase so that in can be scaled as needed and only one way
    • Add Doubleshot Shot Boost as an action boost option.
    • Combine Thrill of the Hunt and Extra Favored Enemy as a tier 3 (mostly to make room in tier 5 for a new enhancement)
    • Change Heavy Draw to apply 1.5 stat to bows and main hand attacks
    • Change Strike like Lightning to 10% Doublestrike, Offhand Doublestrike, and 15% Doubleshot (The other 5% comes back with Mark of the Hunter Change).
    • Add 5 Melee Power to Improved Archers focus maybe remove the 5 Ranged Power
    • Add new tier 5 Grants a Ranged and Melee Attack.
      • Storm of Arrows: (Ranged Attack) +1.5[w] shot 3 arrows at target 5 second cooldown (each arrow should have a chance to doubleshot)
      • Storm of Blades: (Melee Cleave Attack) +4[w] respects doublestrike, offhand proc rate, and offhand doublestrike (can proc 1-4 attacks per target) 5 second cooldown


    No clue if Storm of Arrows is broken or OP or under powered but its the kind of think I would want in order to look at Fury and to switch to bow for Adrenaline use.
    I agree with you that DWS are more Ranged friendly then melee. Especially in T5 abilities. But IMO, Tier 1 and 2 abilities are very week.
    If they consider changes in DWS in near future I will suggest some other approach:

    Step one: Improvements to Favored Enemy
    Step two: Improvements to use of Wild Empathy
    Step tree: Improvements to diversity of Ranged and melee fighting style
    Step four: More sneaky damage

    Step One:
    • CORES: Add +1 to hit and damage to each Core ability for Favored Enemies
    • Core 5: additional +1 to hit and damage
    • Core 6: additional +2 to hit and damage
    • Tier 1: Favored Defense: Additional +3/6/10 MMR and PRR against Favored Enemy
    • Tier 2: Favored Hunter: (moved from Tier 3): removed current bonuses (it was buffed and moved to Cores) and adds: 1d6/2d6/3d6 bane damage against Favored Enemy
    • Tier 3: Additional Favored Enemy: 2 AP cost
    • Tier 5: Extra Favored Enemies: Lower AP cost to 1 AP, add +1 critical multiplier against Favored Enemy



    Step Two:
    • CORES: Move additional use of Wild Empathy to Core 1 (so total +6)
    • Core 5: Uses of Wild Empathy will regenerate in rate 1 per 180 second
    • Core 6: Wild Empathy and Improve Wild Empathy works on Favored Enemies
    • Tier 1: Versatile Empathy and Empathic Healing combine together, with 3 ranks:
      • Rank 1: Passive: Your Wild Empathy ability now also pacifies Vermin, + 4 PSS, Active: SL-a You may expend a use of Wild Empathy to produce a Lesser Vigor
      • Rank 2: Passive: Your Wild Empathy ability now also pacifies Elementals, + 4 PSS (+8 total), Active: SL-a You may expend a use of Wild Empathy to produce a Mass Lesser Vigor
      • Rank 3: Passive: Your Wild Empathy ability now also pacifies Magical Beast, + 4 PSS (+12 total), Active: SL-a You may expend a use of Wild Empathy to produce a Mass Vigor
    • Tier 3: Thrill of the Hunt: Damage is tripled if you hit Empathized enemy
    • Tier 5: Extra Favored Enemies: add +1 critical multiplier against Empathized enemy


    Step Tree:
    • Core 6: You gain Quick Draw feat (for faster weapons changes)
    • Tier 1: Tandon Cut: Melee and Ranged Version: +1/2/3[W] damage and on Sneak Attack (melee) or in PBS range (Ranged): Slow your enemy's movement by 50% for 10 seconds.
    • Tier 3: Aimed Shot: Additional Melee Version: Your attack gain Maiming ability (additional damage on critical hits)
    • Tier 4: Leg Shot: Additional Melee Version with the same effects.
    • Tier 5: Heavy Draw: This toggle acts EXACLY like Power Attack feat (and all effects related to Power Attack affected it), but works only with melee weapons that you proficient with, archery and thrown attacks. Additional can be used simultaneously with all other stances. Passive: You gain Power Critical feat
    • Tier 5: Improved Archer’s Focus: Your Archer's Focus Stance can now stack up to 25 times instead of 15 and you gain simultaneously melee power along with ranged power (3 per stack). Passive the same. Cost 1 AP



    Step Four:
    • Core 6: You have 5% chance to blind enemies with no save (for doing Sneak attacks)
    • Tier 2: Faster Sneaking: On Rank 3 you gain additional Sneak Attack Die
    • Tier 5: Extra Favored Enemies: Against Favored enemies you weapon gain Deception Effect



    So after these changes we gain:

    Splash without Tier 5 Abilities:
    • More damage and defenses against Favored Enemies, also additional Type to pick
    • More and with regeneration Wild Empathy, that can heal (Vigor), Hypnotize a lot of basic stuff, and ability to gain bonus damage thru Thrill of the Hunt.
    • All basic combat ability with melee option
    • Additional Sneak Attack Die (if you want pay 3 AP for it)


    Tier 5 adds additional:
    • Heavily buffed Extra Favored Enemies that will grant additional Favored Enemy (+2 damage) and additional critical damage against it (or double if you Hypnotize it first with Wild Empathy) with extra chance to do Sneak damage against it.
    • Heavy Draw that will work for melee, with some passive small boost to your damage
    • More Melee Power if you decided to stand still with you Bow (and shoot), and then switch to melee weapons, when enemies are around you.


    At the and Capstone will grant (along with all current bonuses):
    • Additional damage to Favored Enemies (+2) that now you can Hypnotized with Wild Empathy
    • Take control on any Favored Enemy with Improved Wild Empathy
    • Additional 5% chance to Blind enemies (no save)
    • Quick Draw feat.


    Right now People that play Tempest, not even considering taking Tier 5 or Capstone from DWS, because their stuff is just better. Archers sometimes takes Tier 5 DWS. But never Capstone.

    That's why I decide to boost Tier 5 DWS for bows users just a little while for Melee by a lot. And new Extra Favored Enemy will work good for both.

    For the Capstone it need a really good improvements to be competitive with other trees. That’s why I boost it so dramatically. Additional damage and CC for FE and 5% no save blind SHOULD be enough.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requiro View Post
    But IMO, Tier 1 and 2 abilities are very week.
    This is is just wrong.

    Stalker 6 AP gets you a ton of Sneak Attack Damage at level 3 you actually have as much Sneak Attack damage as a Rogue.

    Total 11 AP in Stalker is
    Calld Shot
    3d6 Sneak Attack
    38 - 42 Devotion
    15 PBS range
    10 HP
    3 PRR
    Dex to Damage
    +2 Wild Empathy

    11 AP in Stalker is GOOD has lots of nice to haves and a Good Damage increase with SA and Called Shot. The issue that Stalker has is its tier 5s and maybe the core 18 and 20.

    IMO if there is an 11 point spread on a tree that is giving out significantly more than this IMO its OP and should probably be nerfed. (Rapid Strike from Vistanti, Thief, and Henshin is an example of something that IMO is OP in the low tiers/cores thankfully they have very strict weapon limitations. Divine Might, KTA are ok because of how they scale for much of the game 3d6 SA is better)


    Quote Originally Posted by Requiro View Post
    Step one: Improvements to Favored Enemy
    Step two: Improvements to use of Wild Empathy
    Step four: More sneaky damage
    I don't really think any of this is needed, I don't care about Wild Empathy and I think Stalker already does the other two well as is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requiro View Post
    Step tree: Improvements to diversity of Ranged and melee fighting style
    I agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requiro View Post
    Step One:
    • Tier 5: Extra Favored Enemies: Lower AP cost to 1 AP, add +1 critical multiplier against Favored Enemy
    IMO any stacking increase to crit multiplier is OP garbage unless you remove the competence one in Tempest and Arcane Archer and that's a nerf I'm not in favor of.

    The rest of your suggestions are not what I would do but are fine.

  7. #7
    Community Member Requiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    This is is just wrong.

    Stalker 6 AP gets you a ton of Sneak Attack Damage at level 3 you actually have as much Sneak Attack damage as a Rogue.

    Total 11 AP in Stalker is
    Calld Shot
    3d6 Sneak Attack
    38 - 42 Devotion
    15 PBS range
    10 HP
    3 PRR
    Dex to Damage
    +2 Wild Empathy

    11 AP in Stalker is GOOD has lots of nice to haves and a Good Damage increase with SA and Called Shot. The issue that Stalker has is its tier 5s and maybe the core 18 and 20.

    IMO if there is an 11 point spread on a tree that is giving out significantly more than this IMO its OP and should probably be nerfed. (Rapid Strike from Vistanti, Thief, and Henshin is an example of something that IMO is OP in the low tiers/cores thankfully they have very strict weapon limitations. Divine Might, KTA are ok because of how they scale for much of the game 3d6 SA is better)
    If you call it GOOD, then why no one play DWS? Especially in low levels?

    As a suggestion, if you want some real comparison try compare DWS with other good trees, like Tempest, or any Warlock, or Inquisitive.

    When I play Ranger I have never any problem with AP point distribution:
    • If bow (that was some years ago…): I take AA damage imbue and 2nd imbues (bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage) , then Sniper Shot, then AA, then DWS to fill rest of my AP.
    • If melee: I take Tempest up to Tier 5. Then DWS to Killer.


    That’s all.

    I don't really think any of this is needed, I don't care about Wild Empathy and I think Stalker already does the other two well as is.
    It's not needed. It's a suggestion for other approach to DWS - unique abilities, that Ranger already possess, but is not developing anymore: Favored Enemy and Wild Empathy. If you don’t add something unique to that tree, nobody will use, other than splash, because Tempest and AA are just better. And will remain better.


    IMO any stacking increase to crit multiplier is OP garbage unless you remove the competence one in Tempest and Arcane Archer and that's a nerf I'm not in favor of.
    The rest of your suggestions are not what I would do but are fine.
    Why you call it OP? Sure it can stack with AA (Bow) OR Tempest (Dual) but that’s it. You can’t have both. And it’s for Favored Enemy ONLY.
    For comparison look at another Ranger Tier 5 abilities:
    • Tempest: AOE melee ability, off hand full damage modifier, (almost) improved evasion, Super clicky that grant 30 MP and 30 doublestrike, and +6 base damage
    • AA: +250 base dmg at will, AOE ranged ability, (almost) unlimited SP pool, and additional damage, without drawback.


    TBH I don’t think that Devs will made DWS any kind of uniqueness with FE or Wild Empathy. So I’m all for your changes – it’s at least give us some more options for splashing Tempest (and AA, when they improve archery).
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  8. #8
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requiro View Post
    If you call it GOOD, then why no one play DWS? Especially in low levels?

    As a suggestion, if you want some real comparison try compare DWS with other good trees, like Tempest, or any Warlock, or Inquisitive.

    When I play Ranger I have never any problem with AP point distribution:
    • If bow (that was some years ago…): I take AA damage imbue and 2nd imbues (bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage) , then Sniper Shot, then AA, then DWS to fill rest of my AP.
    • If melee: I take Tempest up to Tier 5. Then DWS to Killer.


    That’s all.
    Ok so lets compare 11 AP at LV 3 Tempest vs Stalker

    Stalker
    • +3d6 Sneak Attack
    • +3 Hide and Move Silently
    • +24 Devotion
    • +10 HP
    • +3 PRR
    • Chose of:
      • Power Boost Rank 3
      • OR
      • Power Boost Rank 1 and Dex to Damage


    Tempest
    • +3 AC, PRR, MRR
    • +10% Offhand Proc rate
    • Dex to Damage
    • +2 Hit and Damage
    • Hast Boost Rank 3
    • And 2 AP left to choose from AC, Dodge, PRR


    From a DPS point of view at level 3 3d6 SA is better than +2 Damage and 10% Offhand proc but Haste Boost is much better than Power Boost I can see choosing Tempest over Stalker but its not that much better IMO Stalker is appropriately balanced and dose not need and Increase in low cores.


    Quote Originally Posted by Requiro View Post
    Why you call it OP? Sure it can stack with AA (Bow) OR Tempest (Dual) but that’s it. You can’t have both. And it’s for Favored Enemy ONLY.
    For comparison look at another Ranger Tier 5 abilities:
    • Tempest: AOE melee ability, off hand full damage modifier, (almost) improved evasion, Super clicky that grant 30 MP and 30 doublestrike, and +6 base damage
    • AA: +250 base dmg at will, AOE ranged ability, (almost) unlimited SP pool, and additional damage, without drawback.
    .
    Increase to crit multiplier is the single largest DPS increase you can add It was OP when they added Swashbuckler and Holy Sword they had to rebalance the game around everyone getting a crit multiplier increase. If you add a stacking crit multiplier increase any where your going to have to start going down that route again ... Its just broken OP.

    The two Clicky Attacks you are using as an example are FAR weaker than +1 crit multiplier (how many people Take only 5 levels of Tempest and don't find a Crit Multiplier increase somewhere else 0 because Crit Multiplier is at least 10x larger increase then 1k Cuts.

    If your base attack is 6.25[1d8+3] + 110 (110 is a bit low) (156 avg per hit) a Crit Multplier will add +156 damage to 30% of your attacks if you attack 6 attacks per second thats (1.85*156) 280 DPS increase before scaling by things like MP and with 0 seeker.

    1K Cuts is on a 15/90 cooldown if you average that out over time its 30*15/90 = 5 increase to DS and MP over time (yes its a burst so its a little nicer then this but still Its nothing compared to a crit multiplier (even if limited to only Favored Enemies) 6*1.05 = 6.3 APS after DS and 156 * 1.05 = 164 avg Base only scaled by the Delta (which is most favorable to 1k Cuts)
    • 6.3*164 - 6*156 = 98 avg DPS increase.
    • 7.8*202 - 6*156 = 640 DPS increase during the burst

    Over the hole 90 second period +1 Crit Multplier is 285% better than 1k Cuts.

    One Attack at +250 Damage every 20 seconds (12.5 DPS increase even at x4 that's only an increase of 50 DPS ) doesn't even come close to +1 Crit Multiplier. Its a joke to suggest that.

  9. #9
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    I don't know about everything Req wrote but I liked improving Versatile Empathy and Empathic Healing. Empathic Healing just doesn't do enough for the AP cost especially so either reduce AP cost to 1 per rank or improve the ability slightly. I mean it lists a whole bunch of Metamagics that work for it but seriously, how many rangers take more than one metamagic if any? These two enhancements never seem good enough or high enough on my list of priorities to spend AP on.

    I also liked the idea of adding bane damage to Favored Enemies but that should be a Tier5 or level 18 core bonus, don't you think? Maybe replace the passive +2 damage in Mark of the Hunted with 2d6 bane damage versus Favored Enemies.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Requiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    <snip>

    From a DPS point of view at level 3 3d6 SA is better than +2 Damage and 10% Offhand proc but Haste Boost is much better than Power Boost I can see choosing Tempest over Stalker but its not that much better IMO Stalker is appropriately balanced and dose not need and Increase in low cores.
    Than again. Why no one take DWS?

    The two Clicky Attacks you are using as an example are FAR weaker than +1 crit multiplier (how many people Take only 5 levels of Tempest and don't find a Crit Multiplier increase somewhere else 0 because Crit Multiplier is at least 10x larger increase then 1k Cuts.

    If your base attack is 6.25[1d8+3] + 110 (110 is a bit low) (156 avg per hit) a Crit Multplier will add +156 damage to 30% of your attacks if you attack 6 attacks per second thats (1.85*156) 280 DPS increase before scaling by things like MP and with 0 seeker.

    1K Cuts is on a 15/90 cooldown if you average that out over time its 30*15/90 = 5 increase to DS and MP over time (yes its a burst so its a little nicer then this but still Its nothing compared to a crit multiplier (even if limited to only Favored Enemies) 6*1.05 = 6.3 APS after DS and 156 * 1.05 = 164 avg Base only scaled by the Delta (which is most favorable to 1k Cuts)
    • 6.3*164 - 6*156 = 98 avg DPS increase.
    • 7.8*202 - 6*156 = 640 DPS increase during the burst

    Over the hole 90 second period +1 Crit Multplier is 285% better than 1k Cuts.

    One Attack at +250 Damage every 20 seconds (12.5 DPS increase even at x4 that's only an increase of 50 DPS ) doesn't even come close to +1 Crit Multiplier. Its a joke to suggest that.
    If you want compare something, then do it right: Compare all Tier 5 abilities.
    BTW: Your calculation remind me of Cordovan that didn't understand why we were not excited about Final Strike from AA. In theory it's great DPS ability. In reality is a junk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I don't know about everything Req wrote but I liked improving Versatile Empathy and Empathic Healing. Empathic Healing just doesn't do enough for the AP cost especially so either reduce AP cost to 1 per rank or improve the ability slightly. I mean it lists a whole bunch of Metamagics that work for it but seriously, how many rangers take more than one metamagic if any? These two enhancements never seem good enough or high enough on my list of priorities to spend AP on.
    I completely agree. Because of lack of other good option on Tier 1 or 2 (in DWS) I sometimes tried use it. And that was never good experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I also liked the idea of adding bane damage to Favored Enemies but that should be a Tier5 or level 18 core bonus, don't you think? Maybe replace the passive +2 damage in Mark of the Hunted with 2d6 bane damage versus Favored Enemies.
    Thanks. Maybe you are right. Bane damage is great DPS boost. Easy splash-able could be OP. Maybe on Tier 5, instead +1 critical multiplier in Extra Favored Enemy (+3d6)?
    But then, Tier 5 still require some other improvements to be worth taking instead Tempest Tier 5. DnD is quite unbeatable...
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  11. #11
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requiro View Post
    Than again. Why no one take DWS?
    Because Tempest Teir 5 is much better than Stalker tier 5, and as I said Haste Boost is better than Power Boost ...

    Something will always be better that doesn't mean the alternative needs to be make better the difference between Haste Boost and Power boost is appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Requiro View Post
    If you want compare something, then do it right: Compare all Tier 5 abilities.
    BTW: Your calculation remind me of Cordovan that didn't understand why we were not excited about Final Strike from AA. In theory it's great DPS ability. In reality is a junk.
    Are you joking? I'm comparing the abilities you suggested are batter than or equal to +1 Crit vs FE, and have proven +1 Crit vs FE is significantly better to the point of being OP.

    So what are you saying is junk, +1 Crit Multplier, 1k Cuts, or Slayer Arrows. I'm saying +1 Crit is >>> 1k Cuts >> Slayer Arrows.

    At no point did I say that Stalker was better overall than Tempest or AA, are you even reading what I've said?

    I'm going to walk away from this conversation now clearly you came in to the thread I started to put up competing ideas (which is fine) but cant take any criticism on your ideas specifically:
    • tier 1-2 need to be more powerful they don't they are appropriately powerful, I've used list of abilities gain to show, and have even stated that Tempest is a bit more powerful then Stalker be feel its with in the margin of acceptable difference maybe you would like to show how I'm wrong?
    • a staking crit multplier its over powered even if limited to FE, I've used DPS calculations to show how much more powerful it is than other abilities

  12. #12
    Community Member Requiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Because Tempest Teir 5 is much better than Stalker tier 5, and as I said Haste Boost is better than Power Boost ...

    Something will always be better that doesn't mean the alternative needs to be make better the difference between Haste Boost and Power boost is appropriate.
    You trying to prove that Tier 1 and 2 are GOOD, even better in DPS (3d6 SA) then Tempest.
    But still no one use them at lower levels. For me is quite obvious why... (hint: they are garbage ;-) )

    Are you joking? I'm comparing the abilities you suggested are batter than or equal to +1 Crit vs FE, and have proven +1 Crit vs FE is significantly better to the point of being OP.

    So what are you saying is junk, +1 Crit Multplier, 1k Cuts, or Slayer Arrows. I'm saying +1 Crit is >>> 1k Cuts >> Slayer Arrows.

    At no point did I say that Stalker was better overall than Tempest or AA, are you even reading what I've said?

    I'm going to walk away from this conversation now clearly you came in to the thread I started to put up competing ideas (which is fine) but cant take any criticism on your ideas specifically:
    • tier 1-2 need to be more powerful they don't they are appropriately powerful, I've used list of abilities gain to show, and have even stated that Tempest is a bit more powerful then Stalker be feel its with in the margin of acceptable difference maybe you would like to show how I'm wrong?
    • a staking crit multplier its over powered even if limited to FE, I've used DPS calculations to show how much more powerful it is than other abilities
    I said that Final Strike from AA is junk.
    I also said, that you should compare all Tier 5 abilities. Not just ONE ability with other ONE ability.
    I never said that you said that Stalker is better than Tempest or AA.

    You strongly overreacting. But I agree, that longer conversation with you, is quite unproductive.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Empathic Healing just doesn't do enough for the AP cost especially so either reduce AP cost to 1 per rank or improve the ability slightly.
    Yeah this could really be a hallmark aspect of the tree at lower tiers, and better represent the overall diversity of the Ranger class (not just melee/range) by boosting the healing aspect of it. I'd look to make it just a straight-up SLA instead of using your Empathy charges. Vigor spells are ones that need to be refreshed repeatedly in order to do their job, and that's at odds with limited charges. DWSs could have Vigor spells running for HOTs and Cure spells for burst heals, similar to how PMs are running now, and that's a popular mechanic.

    I also would be OK with improving Empathy as kind of a poor man's Spellsinger analogue. Along with that, I might add some Transmutation bonuses, pretty much specifically for Entangle, which again is an aspect of Ranger versatility that's often neglected.

    More unrealistic goal: Wis Trance in T4 and Wis to Hit/Dmg in Core 3

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