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  1. #1
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    Default Should divine DC casters switch to Magister to max DCs?

    Seems like it. I could just tinker but I play on a mac and can't log in, per recent update tradition...
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  2. #2
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    I don't think so. I mean, in Exalted Angel you get access to a flat +3 to all DC's and another +3 from stat, along with a couple of mass healing SLA's . . . I haven't seen divine DC casters having problems landing their spells in Exalted Angel at all.

    That's not to say you CAN'T, but I think EA is still overall a better tree for divine casters.

  3. #3
    Community Member Hallstatt's Avatar
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    My main is a FVS DC caster/healer running in EA. I twist in Evo DCs from Magister: Precise Evocation and Evocation Specialist. Soundburst, from my spell book, lands fine on R10 with 110+ DC. I am at work, and I do not remember the exact number. I have not tried it on the new Despair reapers yet.

  4. #4
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    It's a no-brainer for Cha-based FvS. You're instantly 3 points higher across the board, plus the up to 6 you get in a single school.

    It's less obvious, but still maybe a reasonable choice even for Wis-based Clr/Drd/FvS. You get the same DCs without using a twist, and also without using 12 Epic Destiny Points on your casting stat.

    Also, the devs said they want you here. They specifically said Magister should be the ED for DC casters.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 08-16-2019 at 05:27 AM.
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  5. #5
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    The thing is, magister is ALL about DC's and little else; there's a bit of utility in the tree, but it's nothing compared to the spell school line of enhancements which is what 90% of people in magister are going to want. If you are a DC caster (as in a caster that relies completely on the DC's of your spells to the exclusion of all else) then you're going to want to be in magister. Sorcerers, arcanotech artificers, warlocks, even some druids, bards, and favored souls might enjoy draconic incarnation for the extra spellpower bonuses, but magister will always give the highest DC's, regardless of class.

    If you're a wisdom-based caster and you want utility and synergistic abilities, or you're a healer build, I'd say go with exalted angel (or unyielding sentinel if you want defenses). There's nothing wrong with exalted angel, as it is perfectly viable for divine casters and you will perform the same way you did before the update.

    Let's not forget the poor druids. While clerics (and to a lesser degree favored souls) might balk at the lack of utility for divine spells, caster levels, or wisdom synergy in magister, remember that the home destiny for druid is primal avatar, which gives almost nothing to spellcasters. Druids aren't even getting caster levels from exalted angel because they're not really divine casters (they're primal).
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  6. #6
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    Thanks folks. I have not played since the update. My fvs DC caster was at 116 evoc DC in reaper and 108 necro DC in reaper. Both were pretty much working all the time. However, I wonder about 108 necro DC after the +4 boost against DCs in reaper in the new update. I'm wisdom based though, so it sounds like not much opportunity to improve DCs going to magister. If had been CHA based, probably would be the way I would go. It all depends on whether my current EA necro DC is noticeably nerfed with the new update (not tested yet).
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  7. #7
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    Mac is able to login again and I'm trying out Magister flavor. Was able to boost evoc to 118 and necro to 110, with +3 spell pen. Probably better for group play - healing is weakened but probably still good enough and I usually won't need to do dps in a group. Solo play probably got harder since I can't DC everything, notably bosses.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
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    Tried it out. It could be that Cogs on R6 is higher DC than I am expecting, but I'm finding my 118 evoc DC is not killing or stunning the goblins much at all. They seem vulnerable to command. Did they up the trinity-ness of the mobs DC resistance on update? I was expecting a disadvantage of +4 but maybe I missed something in the update notes. It's hard for me to gauge because I had not done Cogs yet on this life. Are Cogs same DC as Sharn Towers?
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  9. #9
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    The thing is, magister is ALL about DC's and little else; there's a bit of utility in the tree, but it's nothing compared to the spell school line of enhancements which is what 90% of people in magister are going to want. If you are a DC caster (as in a caster that relies completely on the DC's of your spells to the exclusion of all else) then you're going to want to be in magister. Sorcerers, arcanotech artificers, warlocks, even some druids, bards, and favored souls might enjoy draconic incarnation for the extra spellpower bonuses, but magister will always give the highest DC's, regardless of class.

    If you're a wisdom-based caster and you want utility and synergistic abilities, or you're a healer build, I'd say go with exalted angel (or unyielding sentinel if you want defenses). There's nothing wrong with exalted angel, as it is perfectly viable for divine casters and you will perform the same way you did before the update.

    Let's not forget the poor druids. While clerics (and to a lesser degree favored souls) might balk at the lack of utility for divine spells, caster levels, or wisdom synergy in magister, remember that the home destiny for druid is primal avatar, which gives almost nothing to spellcasters. Druids aren't even getting caster levels from exalted angel because they're not really divine casters (they're primal).
    They're still Divine casters when getting Quelled. Just not when anything could benefit them.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    the home destiny for druid is primal avatar
    Says who?

    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    Druids aren't even getting caster levels from exalted angel because they're not really divine casters (they're primal).
    They are divine casters. Have you looked at the character creation descriptions for Druid lately?
    "Powerful spell casters and shapechangers, druids have a large variety of divine spells" and "Druids use divine magic"

    Druids don't get caster levels from Exalted Angel because the devs decreed that Druids don't get caster levels from Exalted Angel. That whole "primal" thing has nothing in particular to do with the Druid class being a divine caster class; it's a completely separate game mechanic.

    The entire Epic Destiny system has been inconsistent from the start. Since the beginning, the devs have tried to have it both ways on EDs being for roles, independent of classes, versus EDs being linked to specific classes, and thus failed both ways. They need to make up their mind, one way or the other, and follow through on the decision. I don't even have a strong opinion on which of the two it should be, but this half-and-half, say-one-and-do-the-other approach is BS. (This whole Magister revamp is another example: they specifically stated that all DC casters should want to be in Magister, but they don't have Wisdom or caster levels for 3 of the 5 the full caster classes. So is it really for DC casters, or is it only for the arcane casters?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
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  11. #11
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Says who?



    They are divine casters. Have you looked at the character creation descriptions for Druid lately?
    "Powerful spell casters and shapechangers, druids have a large variety of divine spells" and "Druids use divine magic"

    Druids don't get caster levels from Exalted Angel because the devs decreed that Druids don't get caster levels from Exalted Angel. That whole "primal" thing has nothing in particular to do with the Druid class being a divine caster class; it's a completely separate game mechanic.

    The entire Epic Destiny system has been inconsistent from the start. Since the beginning, the devs have tried to have it both ways on EDs being for roles, independent of classes, versus EDs being linked to specific classes, and thus failed both ways. They need to make up their mind, one way or the other, and follow through on the decision. I don't even have a strong opinion on which of the two it should be, but this half-and-half, say-one-and-do-the-other approach is BS. (This whole Magister revamp is another example: they specifically stated that all DC casters should want to be in Magister, but they don't have Wisdom or caster levels for 3 of the 5 the full caster classes. So is it really for DC casters, or is it only for the arcane casters?)
    The first half of this is an example of when people take what others say literally and don't understand how to read between the lines or understand how to make an inference based on the sentences surrounding a particular statement. Now, for the people without proper reading comprehension, I'll explain:

    - Says who? Primal Avatar is the home destiny of druids. Period. Specific destinies are tied to classes due to the content of said destiny (the home destiny of a monk is obviously grandmaster, or a wizard in magister, or a paladin in sentinel). That doesn't mean it has to be the only destiny they use, merely that it's the destiny that provides the most synergy (regardless of build optimization) with that specific class. Primal Avatar has an entire line for wild shapes, it has an entire line of season-themed auras, the majority of the ability names in the tree are blatantly nature-based, it has a dryad summon, and you can literally turn into a tree. It screams of druid. Again, this doesn't mean this is the only destiny druids should use, but merely the one destiny that is tailor-made for the druid class and provides the most synergy with it.

    - Yes, druids are defined as a divine class, however they are more defined as a primal class relating to epic destinies, which is what we're talking about. Druids, for example, don't gain caster levels in the three divine destinies because they are considered primal and not divine (just as a wizard doesn't gain caster levels in the primal destinies because it's considered an arcane class). If druids were truly a divine class, they would not only gain caster levels from, say, exalted angel, but a pure druid would also be able to select exalted angel as their destiny upon first reaching epics on a new character; in which case, they can't, because they must pick from primal avatar, fury of the wild, or shiradi, aka the three primal destinies. This is all a matter of semantics, but since you decided to be a know-it-all, I decided on a rebuttable.

    - I agree with you on the caster level issues. I think all destinies should increases universal caster levels for all spellcasting classes and I think that the abilities in spellcasting destinies should use the highest of int/wis/cha instead of being limited only to the classes within that sphere. For example, a sorcerer should be able to use tsunami in primal avatar with their charisma for its DC, or a cleric should be able to use energy burst and use wisdom for its DC.
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