Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 125
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    309

    Default Running the Same Quests Over and Over

    There was a comment in another thread that I think is interesting enough to pull out into its own thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by LucidLTS View Post
    If repeating the same quest is so bad for the game, why does it take 12000 slave lords mats, at a drop rate of 1-2 per chest on normal, to get the 5 piece set bonus? Tackle the real problem, not how we choose to solve it.
    The main reason SSG gave for the XP changes is that when they looked at the data, they found that people who run the same quests over and over leave the game at a higher rate than those who don't. If you think that's a problem, then something like slave lords is a *much* bigger problem than dailies.

    Even ignoring the bound mats, you need 700 of each of the unbound mats to make a single full epic slave lord item. Lets be generous and say that you average 70 of each mat for each run through the chain and can do the full chain on elite in an hour. Most people can't, but even if you can, that's still 10 hours of running the same three quests over and over in order to get one item. It's even worse if you want a set. It's even worse if you have more than one toon. But wait, you already have an item that's close to what you want? I'm sorry, there's no way to remove/destroy the augments. You'll have to run another 10 hours (if you're lucky) to make a whole new item.

    I don't know how much time it takes me to get an EPL, but it can't be all that much longer than making a single slave lords item. Even if I were to run only dailies, at least I'm running more than 3 quests, and they're much shorter and more varied than running the three quests in the slave lords chain. If I don't like one of the dailies, I can skip it. I can also mix in some slayers, some sagas, or just some other random quests. In fact, if I want to, I can get an EPL without any dailies at all. No so for the slave lords gear. If you want that, you have to run exactly those three quests ad nauseam.

    If you're really concerned about burning people out from running the same quests over and over, you should worry more about grinds like the slave lords gear than about the epic dailies. Although it isn't best in slot any more, it's still really useful gear. When I'm putting together gear sets for L30, I usually find that the best gear sets for my toons have at least one slave lords crafted item.

    Could you please either drastically increase the amount of slave lords mats that drop in each chest (by about 4x to 5x) or drastically lower how many you need to craft an item? It would also be nice to have something that could remove the augments.

    And if you're really concerned about people running the same quests too many times, please don't make anything else that's such a big grind.

  2. #2

    Default

    I run the same quests over and over because I choose to do so. If folks dont like or enjoy it, form a group of your own. If they need help with a quest just ask or I may even join their group if it is in the LFM panel. This isn't that complicated.

  3. #3
    Community Member Potatofasf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Brazil, RJ
    Posts
    504

    Default

    The XP Changes reasons were wacky since the beginning, was subtended that is a "brand punishment" for daily runners. Making sure that is to hurt one specific playstyle choose by the PLAYERS and not imposed by someone.

    The base of DDO is grind, grind means repetition
    We grind XP
    We grind Sagas
    We grind Equipment
    We grind Favor
    We grind Collectibles
    We grind crafting materials
    We grind Past Lifes

    But... we can't CHOOSE to repeat the same quests over and over... this is senseless.
    No Signature...

  4. #4
    Community Member Oliphant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,368

    Default

    My DDO advise is never NEVER farm slavers. If once and a while it sounds fun, then fine have at it.
    Please consider the environment before printing this post

  5. #5
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    ¿
    Posts
    20,007

    Default

    The XP overhaul would seem to dovetail nicely with some material grind requirements overhauling as well. Sadly I don't expect it to happen, regardless of how logical I think the suggestion is. This just brings the false-logic (imho) of the XP overhaul into clearer focus.
    Last edited by Memnir; 08-07-2019 at 12:59 PM.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

    .58098.

  6. #6
    Systems Designer
    Lynnabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Actually, I've been meaning to up the Epic Slave Lords ingredient drop amounts for a while now. I can probably get that done for this update.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  7. #7
    Community Member Fallout47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Splunge View Post
    There was a comment in another thread that I think is interesting enough to pull out into its own thread:



    The main reason SSG gave for the XP changes is that when they looked at the data, they found that people who run the same quests over and over leave the game at a higher rate than those who don't. If you think that's a problem, then something like slave lords is a *much* bigger problem than dailies.

    Even ignoring the bound mats, you need 700 of each of the unbound mats to make a single full epic slave lord item. Lets be generous and say that you average 70 of each mat for each run through the chain and can do the full chain on elite in an hour. Most people can't, but even if you can, that's still 10 hours of running the same three quests over and over in order to get one item. It's even worse if you want a set. It's even worse if you have more than one toon. But wait, you already have an item that's close to what you want? I'm sorry, there's no way to remove/destroy the augments. You'll have to run another 10 hours (if you're lucky) to make a whole new item.
    This post caught my attention this morning as well. It is VERY VALUABLE feedback for SSG if they care to listen. There have been soooo many requests for a tool kit to remove Slavers Augs. People have begged, pleaded, offered to pay solid money for the option. Why would people offer to pay? They would pay to avoid re-grinding a whole new item.

    If they are cash poor and are worried about increasing their sale of grind avoiding items (pots, tomes of learning, VIP, boxes) they are missing out on other revenue sources by focusing only on nerfing xp. They are upsetting a huge chunk of the remaining players for very little gain. Why not spend developer resources to create items that players have requested over and over and over again?

    Tool kits for Slavers
    Wardrobes for cosmetics
    Etc.

    We once sat in Team Speak and listed a huge number of items we would gladly pay for. Most have been posted, sometimes repetitively, on the forums to no avail. Come on guys! Try harder to make money. Go for a win-win scenario where you make money and you make your player base happy.
    HELTER SKELTER - GLAND

  8. #8
    Community Member awar1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    280

    Default Nope. Nope. Nope.

    Let’s see. MMO is supposed to be social game. Epic dailies are ordinary LFM... social thing. Slaver year is top notch and still is many many updates later....
    Use your social skills to get what you want. Make friends in the game, join a guild, be generous to others, put up LFMS welcoming all.

    This is how I got my full slavers gear in 2,3 runs...... I got on my friends list and asked for help. “One hour of you time, plz! I want to make full slavers gear. Please run EE with me. I will pas any and all loot, just need to you pass me mats. Thanks!”
    I got 4 friends to run it and put up LFM For the other two spots... “Slavers run.....please pass mats”

    I had full group to pass mats that is 6X the mats per run. We did this TWICE.. once on EE AND AGAIN ON EH.
    That was the same as running it 10 times. Now granted I still did not have enough for full set, but was pretty close.. I think I made 4 full items and got my fifth item next live..

    Problem solved using social skills, not socialist give me want I want for free and easy.... tax the rich give to the poor.
    I value my slaver set.... but I value my friends list and the Power of the LFM PANEL even more.

    Best wishes. And if you need help on Argo this kind of thing happens a lot so please feel free to transfer over. Be nice, make friends, have fun, get loot!!

  9. #9
    Systems Designer
    Lynnabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallout47 View Post
    This post caught my attention this morning as well. It is VERY VALUABLE feedback for SSG if they care to listen. There have been soooo many requests for a tool kit to remove Slavers Augs. People have begged, pleaded, offered to pay solid money for the option. Why would people offer to pay? They would pay to avoid re-grinding a whole new item.
    If I could snap my fingers and make that happen, I would - but the way Slavers crafting is set up makes it almost impossible to actually create. Believe me, we're not holding back because we don't want to, we're holding back because we can't.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  10. #10
    2016 DDO Players Council
    Hierophant of Vol
    Truthspeaker of Khyber
    karatemack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Actually, I've been meaning to up the Epic Slave Lords ingredient drop amounts for a while now. I can probably get that done for this update.
    Would be a small win. Adjusting the amount of codex runes required to cleanse would also be nice.
    Active Characters: Griglok (main), Fiergen, Greyhead, Havegun Dead Alts: Duelcore, Embezzler, Jayberwocky, Laciolux, Prototech, Rendorc, Seasharp
    Leader- The Casual Obsession ___Khyber___
    Builds I'm Currently Playing

  11. #11
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,622

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If I could snap my fingers and make that happen, I would - but the way Slavers crafting is set up makes it almost impossible to actually create. Believe me, we're not holding back because we don't want to, we're holding back because we can't.
    Then make a dissolver like for heroic greensteel, but make it give back the full amount of ingredients for whatever gems are in there instead of partial. It comes to the same difference.
    A little snark, no vitriol.
    (with credit to HungarianRhapsody)


    Graceana, assassin ~ Xiya, tempest ~ Shinshi, shintao ~ Ayaxi, thief-acrobat ~ Saravi, cleric ~ Sanziana, arcane archer ~ Kyudojin, mechanic
    Talvi, caster druid ~ Zinzie, sorc ~ Kishori, spellsinger ~ Faunia, wolf druid ~ Viven, warchanter ~ Jianqiao, ninja spy
    Cliodna, wizard ~ Serenwyn, swashbuckler ~ Duisteri, shuribuild ~ Mahuika, warlock ~ Narabali, tank ~ Tabbithah, artificer
    The Casual Obsession
    Khyber

  12. #12
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,197

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Actually, I've been meaning to up the Epic Slave Lords ingredient drop amounts for a while now. I can probably get that done for this update.
    Reducing the recipe costs instead would make the change retroactive, benefiting what we've already ground out, as opposed to requiring more grind

  13. #13
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    19,656

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Actually, I've been meaning to up the Epic Slave Lords ingredient drop amounts for a while now. I can probably get that done for this update.
    This would be a good change, thank you.

    Every time you release new gear, I have to redo Slavers item(s). Usually on three different characters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  14. #14
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If I could snap my fingers and make that happen, I would - but the way Slavers crafting is set up makes it almost impossible to actually create. Believe me, we're not holding back because we don't want to, we're holding back because we can't.
    Okay, so you can't make aug removers. What alternative solutions could you create that would allow people who already "ran those same quests over and over and over" to reuse those resources?


    Like this for example:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grace_ana View Post
    Then make a dissolver like for heroic greensteel, but make it give back the full amount of ingredients for whatever gems are in there instead of partial. It comes to the same difference.
    Great idea if it can be done. Put the dissolvers on the Slave Lords aug vendor for like 20k plat as a bonus.


    This can't be done? Okay, what about a deconstruction station similar to Cannith Crafting?


    Decon station can't be done? Okay, how about a trade-in/collectibles NPC. Players trade in their Slave Lords item and receive an amount of each ingredient that scales by how many upgrades/effect slots it has on it.


    I bet there are other possible options beyond these. I find it really hard to believe that none of the existing in-game options for item and materials exchanging can't be relatively easily tweaked for the Slave Lords items.

  15. #15
    Systems Designer
    Lynnabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by btolson View Post
    Reducing the recipe costs instead would make the change retroactive, benefiting what we've already ground out, as opposed to requiring more grind
    Sure, good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by LT218 View Post
    Okay, so you can't make aug removers. What alternative solutions could you create that would allow people who already "ran those same quests over and over and over" to reuse those resources?

    Like this for example:

    Great idea if it can be done. Put the dissolvers on the Slave Lords aug vendor for like 20k plat as a bonus.

    This can't be done? Okay, what about a deconstruction station similar to Cannith Crafting?

    Decon station can't be done? Okay, how about a trade-in/collectibles NPC. Players trade in their Slave Lords item and receive an amount of each ingredient that scales by how many upgrades/effect slots it has on it.

    I bet there are other possible options beyond these. I find it really hard to believe that none of the existing in-game options for item and materials exchanging can't be relatively easily tweaked for the Slave Lords items.
    All of these are literally impossible to implement, I like your enthusiasm though.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  16. #16
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,622

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    All of these are literally impossible to implement, I like your enthusiasm though.
    A decon station is simply exchanging an item for a set amount of whatever. The station can read what tiers the item has and trade it for items. We have this all over the place. Maybe you can explain why an SL item can't be swapped for other items in a barter window.
    A little snark, no vitriol.
    (with credit to HungarianRhapsody)


    Graceana, assassin ~ Xiya, tempest ~ Shinshi, shintao ~ Ayaxi, thief-acrobat ~ Saravi, cleric ~ Sanziana, arcane archer ~ Kyudojin, mechanic
    Talvi, caster druid ~ Zinzie, sorc ~ Kishori, spellsinger ~ Faunia, wolf druid ~ Viven, warchanter ~ Jianqiao, ninja spy
    Cliodna, wizard ~ Serenwyn, swashbuckler ~ Duisteri, shuribuild ~ Mahuika, warlock ~ Narabali, tank ~ Tabbithah, artificer
    The Casual Obsession
    Khyber

  17. #17
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    6,512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Actually, I've been meaning to up the Epic Slave Lords ingredient drop amounts for a while now. I can probably get that done for this update.
    Why was it ever created if your design goal is to not grind the same quest?

    Do you see how transparent your lack of design goals is, and why a lack of trust or belief in you is generated by continually doing things that just don't stack up to your stated goals?

    Are we to believe all your future decisions will now be motivated by this goal, or is this patchwork design, where the wind changes all the time, and without direction?
    Last edited by nokowi; 08-07-2019 at 12:34 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LT218 View Post
    This can't be done? Okay, what about a deconstruction station similar to Cannith Crafting?

    Decon station can't be done? Okay, how about a trade-in/collectibles NPC. Players trade in their Slave Lords item and receive an amount of each ingredient that scales by how many upgrades/effect slots it has on it.

    I bet there are other possible options beyond these. I find it really hard to believe that none of the existing in-game options for item and materials exchanging can't be relatively easily tweaked for the Slave Lords items.
    Unless I'm horribly wrong about how DDO works in the background (I've gotten decent at it over the years, thanks to some open discussion from the devs), crafting stations won't see the items as different items because they aren't.
    It's not like the old epic items, that destroyed your item and gave you back an epic copy thereof (losing any of those nifty reaper/mythic bonuses), it's the exact same item.
    As such, crafting stations cannot see the difference, nor can NPCs. Item ID is the same, no matter what else has been applied that eventually affects the player.

    However, something I think COULD be implemented which I wouldn't dislike is all those random crafting pieces could be traded in for a random amount of crafting mats, or an amount based on the base piece.
    Which, in turn, means you could trade in your old pieces for mats without varying depending on what was crafted on it.
    It would also make the random equipment pieces you get from mat chests worth something, a net positive and another way to increase the amount of mats the quests hand out.

    Do correct me if I'm wrong, Lyn, I don't want to tread on anyone or give any false hopes, but would the above be possible?

  19. #19
    Systems Designer
    Lynnabel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xgya View Post
    Unless I'm horribly wrong about how DDO works in the background (I've gotten decent at it over the years, thanks to some open discussion from the devs), crafting stations won't see the items as different items because they aren't.
    It's not like the old epic items, that destroyed your item and gave you back an epic copy thereof (losing any of those nifty reaper/mythic bonuses), it's the exact same item.
    As such, crafting stations cannot see the difference, nor can NPCs. Item ID is the same, no matter what else has been applied that eventually affects the player.
    Correct! As an additional wrinkle, Slavers crafting applies our generic random loot scaling effects instead of something unique - so there's no good hook-ins to separate what's been used from what hasn't.

    As far as feasibility of other suggestions go, I'd personally much rather drastically reduce the epic crafting requirements instead of dedicating a lot of R&D time to make an unslotter. Speaking of which, crafting requirements have moved from 400 -> 100 and 100 -> 50 as far as unbound/bound materials respectively (augments from 200 -> 100), this change will be in an upcoming patch.
    Last edited by Lynnabel; 08-07-2019 at 01:05 PM.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Sure, good idea.
    All of these are literally impossible to implement, I like your enthusiasm though.
    These were theoretical and for illustrative purposes only. You're the dev, give us an option that is possible.

    Something somewhere in DDO's code has to parse the effects on crafted Slave Lords items somehow, otherwise the game wouldn't know what effects to apply to the toon when the item is equipped. Use that same parsing logic to implement a trade-in solution of some sort.

    After all, the devs are the ones telling us it is bad to continue running quests we've already run 100+ times. I'd be perfectly happy if I could reuse the mats from the hundreds of previous Slave Lords runs I've done and only run those missions once per TR for first-time bonuses without worrying about grinding more mats out. Better yet, I could pass mats from future runs to friends, guildies and new players who don't have any yet and save them from repeated runs of those missions. That's like winning squared.
    Last edited by LT218; 08-07-2019 at 01:17 PM.

Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload