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  1. #1
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    Default Reaper at level +2. How do you expect to play that?

    Currently my buddy and I are running racials by doing reaper at level - as I figure many are.

    We almost never hold levels even doing some quests under level.
    We often do all of GH except Tor at 13, barely make 18 before doing High Roads and are still 18 in Storm Horns, maybe 19 in WGU.
    We finish both ES sagas to reach 20.

    With the proposed changes we will get slightly less regular xp on reaper, slightly less xp in the few nerfed quests and somewhat less xp if we still do REHN om a select handful of quests. We will get slightly more xp from the buffer quests if we run those. Overall we will need to run more quests to level than before.

    Now, the option to run quests at level +2 looks interesting. This probably means dropping the ES sagas only doing the individual quests if they are worthwhile instead running more lower level quests to get 2 levels ahead (or 3 levels, clarifications pending).

    I wonder through if there are enough worthwhile lower quests to make this work well. Sure, with a 50% pot it will be great but without pots I think it might simply result in running slower low level quests for less xp/min as well as less rxp rather than the level 17-19 quests. It is worth noting that on the list of buffed quests only the Riddle, High Roads and Storm Horns are on our current play list and those dont jive with running over level.

    I am curious what others think wrt. this. Do you expect to take advantage of being able to run reaper over level?
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  2. #2
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Slayerzone? 3bc has decent exp with a slayer and exp pot, acces from lv 3

    To fill in exp at low level
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  3. #3
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
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    I think that being able to run quest at two levels higher over base and still get full rxp will be a good thing.

    I also expect to see more seeker/rare/slayer LFMs up for wilderness zones, especially Orchard, Vale and Wheloon.

    And it looks like you're skipping Reaver's Reach, big chunk of xp is awaiting you there.
    Last edited by LightBear; 07-30-2019 at 07:04 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    I think that being able to run quest at two levels higher over base and still get full rxp will be a good thing.

    I also expect to see more seeker/rare/slayer LFMs up for wilderness zones, especially Orchard, Vale and Wheloon.

    And it looks like you're skipping Reaver's Reach, big chunk of xp is awaiting you there.
    As slayers do not give rxp I am doubtful those will become popular. RR is definitely an option if one drops ES sagas but being level 17 those are not really a means to run over level more the final quests to hit 20.
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  5. #5

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    I'm wrapping up racial at-level reaper lives in the next two weeks. You can look at my quest list is here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...l-Reaper-Lives. I think your issue may be more about not holding levels when quests are plentiful. Also consider additional/different sagas to prep and take at level 18: RL, GH, Sharn and Cogs. ETA: I use 20% XP pots + VIP.

    When I do iconic lives just to get the past lives, I do elite streak reapers because I'm more interested in getting to 30 than maximizing RXP on a [often] suboptimal build. I have zero issue getting to 20. When I TR, I only level to 14 (holding 15) and do the typical level 12 quests like Wiz King, Relic, Invaders, Eyes of Stone chain to double cap. I stay double capped until I take 20.
    Last edited by Carpone; 07-30-2019 at 08:00 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    I'm wrapping up racial at-level reaper lives in the next two weeks. You can look at my quest list is here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...l-Reaper-Lives. I think your issue may be more about not holding levels when quests are plentiful. Also consider additional/different sagas to prep and take at level 18: RL, GH, Sharn and Cogs. ETA: I use 20% XP pots + VIP.

    When I do iconic lives just to get the past lives, I do elite streak reapers because I'm more interested in getting to 30 than maximizing RXP on a [often] suboptimal build. I have zero issue getting to 20. When I TR, I only level to 14 (holding 15) and do the typical level 12 quests like Wiz King, Relic, Invaders, Eyes of Stone chain to double cap. I stay double capped until I take 20.
    Thanks for the link. However, holding levels and not using Saga xp right away is the exact opposite of what will likely be optimal if we can run level+2 for full xp and rxp.
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  7. #7
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    As slayers do not give rxp I am doubtful those will become popular. RR is definitely an option if one drops ES sagas but being level 17 those are not really a means to run over level more the final quests to hit 20.
    I read your main concern as "As I'm struggling from level 18 and above how do I reach 20 now that some of the quests that I regularly run get less xp?" and "While doing quests at level and not banking xp?" and "Hitting 20 is enough to get a racial past life".

    If that is your main concern then... you are right... there is a dip in xp you can get from quest while at level at the last few heroic levels.
    (I think we'll get a handful of level 17 quests soon.)
    If you are willing to take advantage of being able to get full rxp while being 2 levels above base, then doing those in Vale while being level 18 might be an option, it doesn't give saga tho.

    The explorers suggestion was just there for filling the last bit of xp needed to reach 20.

    Edit:
    I would make other suggestions if you wanted to reach 30 quickly.

  8. #8
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    If one runs out of xp due to not owning enough content, one can always run ES challenges at CR24+ for the CR24 named item drops and materials to craft more, then feed it all to your SW.

  9. #9
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Level +3 even, because Bravery Bonus isn't going to be relevant anymore.

    (And level +??? In Epics)
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post

    With the proposed changes we will get slightly less regular xp on reaper,
    Not true, someone took my figures from the test server to analyze thus and found reaper xp is getting a slight buff not nerf.

    RXP still gets the same first time +200% bonus as before which totally independent of bravery and any other first time bonuses.
    RXP still gets the typical bonuses.
    RXP gets increased daily bonuses.

    Now, the option to run quests at level +2 looks interesting. This probably means dropping the ES sagas only doing the individual quests if they are worthwhile instead running more lower level quests to get 2 levels ahead (or 3 levels, clarifications pending).
    Reaper can now be run at level +3 without xp/rxp penalty (proved by my data from the test servers.
    Reaper can now be run at level +4 with a mild -10% penalty.

    No data on epic reaper dungeons which should be the same or possibly even wider margins.


    I am curious what others think wrt. this. Do you expect to take advantage of being able to run reaper over level?
    Heavens yes.
    On the test sever I was able to run the Vale at level 19 (breaking the old "never ever take level 19 rule") with a poor build, poor equipment and five gold seal hires who rarely died.
    The grouping versatility and power advantage is huge.

    Given the new knowledge for me that bravery has nothing to do with rxp, and the wide variety of quests, I can scatter strategy to the wind in favor of grouping up with other player's rxp trains and smoking higher level rxp.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    Ok. As promised I ran it on live to compare. I ran it on a level 4 so 50% penalty. And I didn't get the 10% for kills... so:

    base 56 awarded 114.
    x 1.1 for length, x 0.5 overlevel, +10 persist, +10 flawless, +20 daily, +25 tome, (+hidden 200 first time reaper). Consistent with the way it's being calculated on Lama. Which means: reaper xp is getting a straight buff. There is no change in the way it's calculated, we are just getting more for daily bonus and being allowed to run higher level. Every scenario for rxp is either the same or more in the new version vs live.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 07-30-2019 at 01:31 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Level +3 even, because Bravery Bonus isn't going to be relevant anymore.
    Yes +1
    Bravery is a standard bonus for running elite first time (split with hard or applied to reaper) for normal xp, it has nothing to do with rxp and it has nothing to do with what level your toon is. So way over level with a new iconic works fine.

    (And level +??? In Epics)
    +1
    Yes, I will test that if the Test server ever opens up again.

    Imagine if we can run any epic dungeon on reaper with any level toon, what that would do for grouping?



    Also, not sure what would happen if you entered a high level heroic dungeon with an epic toon having the intention of gaining rxp.


    Definitely could see myself having a toon at level 16 farming out base level 13 quest then jumping into a group with a level 19 leader in the vale for rxp.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 07-30-2019 at 01:39 PM.

  12. #12
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    Ignore anything above that I typed if it contradicts with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Severlin View Post
    Greetings! Thanks for the feedback. Some notes:

    ~ It is not our intention to reduce the rate at which characters gain Reaper XP. We intend to boost Reaper XP to make up for the loss of the Reaper XP gained from the old Bravery Streak bonus. We are looking at the best way to do that.

    ~ We have looked at the feedback on optional objectives and how they affect the Epic reincarnation process. On live Epic reincarnation doesn't clear out quest flags so players don't have to re-flag for quests. There is no reason that we need to retain quest flagging for optional objectives, however. With the XP changes we will also reset optional objective flags (and only those flags) when you do an Epic reincarnation. This will give characters a fresh set of optional objectives for each Epic life while keeping their flagging for quests intact.

    ~ We do not intend players to get full Bravery Bonus if they are over level. Like on live, if the player is more than 2 levels above the base CR of the quest they will get less Bravery Bonus and their Dungeons Completed count will not be incremented. The reduction - 25% on Hard and 50% on Elite/Reaper - will be the same as on live.

    ~ There seems to be some confusion on Reaper XP over level penalties. The XP penalty for characters being over level will match the way it works on Elite. This helps things stay consistent. Characters who are too high level are still prevented from entering quests on Reaper difficulty. In the Epic levels this will work as it does on live; players are prevented from entering a Reaper dungeon if they are more than 6 levels above the base CR of the dungeons. In the heroic levels we have reduced this range to 4 levels.

    Example:

    You are running a level 10 dungeon on Reaper. The modified challenge rating is 12 - since Reaper uses the CR for Elite. If your character is level 13 or lower there is no penalty. Level 14 would give a reduction of -10% of base XP. Level 15 would give a reduction of -25% of base XP. Level 16 would give a reduction of -50% of base XP. Level 17 would give a reduction of -75% of base XP. Level 18 would give a reduction of -99% of base XP. Higher levels would reduce the XP to zero.

    As an aside, I apologize for the delay in response. Any plans for changes that involve tech require some research before we can comment on a definitive plan.

    Sev~

    PS: While I would love nothing better than to burn the XP system to the ground and re-implement an easier to understand system - maybe with, I don't know, one way to reward first time play and one system to penalize playing over level, we are trying to maintain parity so players don't feel we are trying to take away their XP.

  13. #13
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Ignore anything above that I typed if it contradicts with this:
    Honestly, I'm more likely to accept what you say you've seen on Llama over what Severlin says he's trying to make happen in Llama.

    "This is what it will do" claim from a dev is great.
    "This is what it's actually doing" from someone who checked it is even better.

    I still don't 100% understand what Sev said in that post.

    ~ We do not intend players to get full Bravery Bonus if they are over level. Like on live, if the player is more than 2 levels above the base CR of the quest they will get less Bravery Bonus and their Dungeons Completed count will not be incremented. The reduction - 25% on Hard and 50% on Elite/Reaper - will be the same as on live."
    is not compatible with
    Example:

    You are running a level 10 dungeon on Reaper. The modified challenge rating is 12 - since Reaper uses the CR for Elite. If your character is level 13 or lower there is no penalty. Level 14 would give a reduction of -10% of base XP. Level 15 would give a reduction of -25% of base XP. Level 16 would give a reduction of -50% of base XP. Level 17 would give a reduction of -75% of base XP. Level 18 would give a reduction of -99% of base XP. Higher levels would reduce the XP to zero.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Not true, someone took my figures from the test server to analyze thus and found reaper xp is getting a slight buff not nerf.

    RXP still gets the same first time +200% bonus as before which totally independent of bravery and any other first time bonuses.
    RXP still gets the typical bonuses.
    RXP gets increased daily bonuses..
    Yes, I get that which is more than Sev seems to. However, the part you replied to is about regular xp when running reaper, not rxp. So you misread the part you replied to. Regular xp seems to ve down when running reaper once and done.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    I read your main concern as "As I'm struggling from level 18 and above how do I reach 20 now that some of the quests that I regularly run get less xp?" and "While doing quests at level and not banking xp?" and "Hitting 20 is enough to get a racial past life".

    If that is your main concern then... you are right... there is a dip in xp you can get from quest while at level at the last few heroic levels.
    (I think we'll get a handful of level 17 quests soon.)
    If you are willing to take advantage of being able to get full rxp while being 2 levels above base, then doing those in Vale while being level 18 might be an option, it doesn't give saga tho.

    The explorers suggestion was just there for filling the last bit of xp needed to reach 20.

    Edit:
    I would make other suggestions if you wanted to reach 30 quickly.
    Looks like I wasnt been clear then. I can get to 20 easily. Currently I do so without holding levels because that seems faster. I can see the lure to run over level +2 or +3 after these changes but I not so sure its possibly to find enough god xp lower level quests to make this efficient unless one is using good pots.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Yes, I get that which is more than Sev seems to. However, the part you replied to is about regular xp when running reaper, not rxp. So you misread the part you replied to. Regular xp seems to ve down when running reaper once and done.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Looks like I wasnt been clear then. I can get to 20 easily. Currently I do so without holding levels because that seems faster. I can see the lure to run over level +2 or +3 after these changes but I not so sure its possibly to find enough god xp lower level quests to make this efficient unless one is using good pots.
    I see where you are getting at.
    I don't intend to use 50% pots either.


    What is your final goal after your racial past lives are over?
    Are you going to combine racial and epic PL?
    How much rxp do you desire?
    In the end will you be TRing simply to reset your first time reaper bonuses simply for more rxp?

  17. #17
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    Not really sure what the concern is, every life from 1 to 20 I don't seem to get every quest in at level before I'm at a point in order to keep earning standard XP I need to advance.

    The main difference I see is several quests won't be quite as rough in that now a caster on average will have 1 additional spell level - difference could be as significant as a single target vs multi-target spell options.

    Some additional gear will be available - IE there are some ML18 items that will be available when running base 16 Quests.

    I think for me the biggest difference will be in opening up the pool of people qualified to join a group for full XP.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Not really sure what the concern is, every life from 1 to 20 I don't seem to get every quest in at level before I'm at a point in order to keep earning standard XP I need to advance.

    The main difference I see is several quests won't be quite as rough in that now a caster on average will have 1 additional spell level - difference could be as significant as a single target vs multi-target spell options.

    Some additional gear will be available - IE there are some ML18 items that will be available when running base 16 Quests.

    I think for me the biggest difference will be in opening up the pool of people qualified to join a group for full XP.
    Oh, there are plenty of quests. The question through is if running second rate lower level quests to get ahead in level will actually beat running first rate higher level quests at level. With a large xp pot the answers is easy as the first rate xp quests will be plenty to get ahead but without pots I am not so sure. Its easy to say that once you are two levels ahead xp will be more efficient but if the route to get those two levels ahead is filled with crappy xp quests it may be a net loss.

    Made up numbers - if I can either run 500k xp of second rate lower level quests at 1kxp/min to become over level and then 1mill xp at 4kxp/min of first rate xp quests while over level OR run 1.5mill xp at 2.5kxp/min of first rate xp quests without being over level then the latter is faster.
    Last edited by mikarddo; 07-31-2019 at 02:20 AM.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default I expect....

    ...that I will actually feel good about putting up a LFM for mid-skull reaper quests with the RELAXED level restrictions instead of just not bothering and soloing R1s @ level for speedy XP and no RXP penalty even though the RXP gains are small.


    Feels and looks like a great change over-all that I am excited about.
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature". Mokune (Guild Leader of Pandora's Box on Khyber), Iquitz, Returning, Thaumat, Ketzerisch, Xhiron, Koanoak et al...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq View Post
    ...that I will actually feel good about putting up a LFM for mid-skull reaper quests with the RELAXED level restrictions instead of just not bothering and soloing R1s @ level for speedy XP and no RXP penalty even though the RXP gains are small.


    Feels and looks like a great change over-all that I am excited about.
    Same here. My main complaint at this moment in time is that the levels 17-20 have less average base xp per quest (not counting raids) then averages at other levels while these last quest to complete heroics are actually harder to run at level.
    With the new adventure pack coming and these new changes that seems to be taken away by simply adding more quest at level 17.
    Top that with no concerns about streaks and such.

    This whole change seems to be a massive move in the right direction to be able to gain decent rxp at every level.
    Right now THE sweatspot seems to be at level 26 and being powerleveled by fully geared 30s through Legendary content.

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