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  1. #1
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    Question Returning Yet Again

    Hello All -

    Last I posted here was back in 2014 when I last returned, I had left again In 2015 (or 2016?) -- last I remember was that farming Phlogs, the Abbot and doing the "classic" (back when releases were in Modules) Raids as Epics were the thing to do.

    The last time I had came back I just started from scratch and was able to solo / Hireling my way all the way up into Epics, is that still the approach?

    To add some color to this...
    1) Are massive reincarnations still the thing to do? I remember folks doing 3x Racial then 3x Class and swapping classes and play-styles, I really hated that
    2) Related to 1 - do you HAVE to Reincarnate a lot? I still rolled with a 28 point sorc (back when that was a thing) in end-game and was gimped, but not too bad
    3) Is content still able to be solo'ed with Hirelings - heck, are Hirelings even a thing anymore?
    4) Is Favor grinding still worth doing? I remember when you had to get to 1600 to use Drows and 32-points
    5) Are any of the "classic" quests still worth doing / being ran? Things like VON, STK, Threnal Line, Gianthold, Titan, Depths Ring, Waterworks, Invaders, Shav, Shroud, etc?
    6) Related to 5 - since I left with the weird Dragons and the phlogs, are those lines still ran? (I think it was called Forgotten Realms?) And are those weapons still any good?
    7) Does crafting still suck? Last I remember Cannith was pretty grindy and you could still get far better stuff doing Epics
    8) Any new races / classes preferable? When I originally played back in Alpha / Beta / 2007 it was all about Pallys and Sorcs, then when I came back everyone was a Favored Soul or some multi-class thing
    9) Are the Iconics still pretty gimped? Sun Elfs and Bladeforged were doable IIRC
    10) Are 1-9 even relevant anymore?

    I have the client downloading now, I actually came back hoping to find AC2 and saw that whole series is not even a thing anymore, but DDO was always fun

    Thanks in advance all!

  2. #2
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    Welcome back!

    1) Yup. A couple of new races have been added since then (dragonborn, tiefling), depending on when "then" is. No new classes yet, though Alchemist should be coming in the fall

    2) Nah. Reaper is the new meta and reaper points (which mostly only affect reaper difficulties) are generally stronger than PLs. It depends on your build, though, as HP is the primary Reaper boost. Caster HPLs are still very useful for caster builds. Take a look at Reaper mode because that's the majority of LFMs you'll see and because it's been the driving force in playstyles for the past couple of years

    3) Yes, though self-healing is nerfed in Reaper so you may find yourself relying on them more. New content is also getting progressively slightly harder - the two-level difference between Sharn and GH seems minimal but the mooks in the former quests have quadruple the latters' HP

    4) To a point. Drow are 400 favor, FvS are 2500 or 3000 (can't recall), +5 tomes are still pretty darn good. Various factions are still worthwhile, such as Coin Lords. All factions recently got an upgrade - hitting max(ish) favor gives a few HP and +2 to two skills, the latter depending on the faction in question

    5) I see groups regularly for all but Titan and Shav. The latter I see occasionally, the former never

    6) Occasionally. Threads of Fate drop from most epic raids. There's a whole new system of raid rankings - anything from your era is probably a "T2" raid, which means its loot is now ML26 and got a slight buff

    7) There was a revamp a couple of years ago. It's competitive but only at the highest levels, and even then only to fill missing slots. Endgame gear layouts typically have one CC item

    8) Dragonborn and Tiefling are stellar for Sorc and Warlock, as they both get beefy evocation SLAs. Since the former gets bonuses to Str as well, you occasionally see them as Pallies or Bards

    9) They're all still doable. PDK are in vogue because of Silvanus builds. You don't see too many BF, SDK or Sun Elves. The new Aasimar Scourge (Ranger) iconic gets quite a bit of play too

    10) Sure. The mathematically-inclined can sit down and calculate the best builds, but what really matters is that you have fun playing whatever you end up playing. If you're looking for some laid-back questing and happen to be on Argo, hit up Tharnapple

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discpsycho View Post
    Welcome back!

    ...
    10) Sure. The mathematically-inclined can sit down and calculate the best builds, but what really matters is that you have fun playing whatever you end up playing. If you're looking for some laid-back questing and happen to be on Argo, hit up Tharnapple
    Awesome thanks for the quick rundown for all of my questions! I left about 2015 / early 2016 I want to say so all of the Thunderforged stuff I had was pretty much the highest it got. There was a new quest area that got released right after that which was supposed to nerf the TF things, but I farmed out 2 longswords on my Tempest build with full Phlogs (20 each back then IIRC).

    Guess I will have to learn some reaper stuff, are the LFMs mostly just end-game and farmers? I was told by some folks who still played that there is not many throwback quest folks around

    I forget if I had toons on Argo, mostly Khyber, but I will definitely look you up - I will still get lost running around Gianthold, just a heads up

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    Quote Originally Posted by axiom21 View Post
    I farmed out 2 longswords on my Tempest build with full Phlogs
    In that case, you've picked a great time to return - there's a new feat that makes longswords great again! If your Tempest is Str-based, you'll be good to go, but to get Dex to damage with longswords you need either the T4 Elven Racial ability (Aerenal's Grace, I think?) or some Monk levels (12 Ranger / 6 Monk / 2 Whatever, Whirling Steel Strike + second Ninja Spy Core gives dex to hit and damage)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discpsycho View Post
    In that case, you've picked a great time to return - there's a new feat that makes longswords great again! If your Tempest is Str-based, you'll be good to go, but to get Dex to damage with longswords you need either the T4 Elven Racial ability (Aerenal's Grace, I think?) or some Monk levels (12 Ranger / 6 Monk / 2 Whatever, Whirling Steel Strike + second Ninja Spy Core gives dex to hit and damage)
    Turns out they were B-Swords, I guess I farmed a lot more than I thought and had a few dozen of each Phlog on an alt (looks like they made them BTA versus BTC from what I remember) -- however, I finally made it back to the magma forge and I really do not remember the recipes ever needing 100s+ Scales and Comms, guess I am just that old.

    That toon is a Dex Tempest, at least I think it was - I had all my enhancements refunded and no idea if I redistributed them right - I was still able to tear up the Thunder Peaks wilderness area, if that is any sort of litmus test

    Now that the Epic cap is 10 instead of 8, can I still TR or do I need to get Epic 30, do an Epic TR then do a Heroic TR? I forgot how that works and DDOWiki is not exactly clear on that scenario

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by axiom21 View Post
    Turns out they were B-Swords, I guess I farmed a lot more than I thought and had a few dozen of each Phlog on an alt (looks like they made them BTA versus BTC from what I remember) -- however, I finally made it back to the magma forge and I really do not remember the recipes ever needing 100s+ Scales and Comms, guess I am just that old.

    That toon is a Dex Tempest, at least I think it was - I had all my enhancements refunded and no idea if I redistributed them right - I was still able to tear up the Thunder Peaks wilderness area, if that is any sort of litmus test

    Now that the Epic cap is 10 instead of 8, can I still TR or do I need to get Epic 30, do an Epic TR then do a Heroic TR? I forgot how that works and DDOWiki is not exactly clear on that scenario
    Bastard swords aren't ideal these days, but that's not the end of the world. They're solid/optimal on tanks, reasonably good on pure (melee) artificers and remain decent on other SWF or S&B builds

    For your Tempest, put 41-45 points in Tempest (depending on how many T5 you want) and at least 20-odd in DWS for Killer. Strimtom's build probably has a layout that'll work for ya.

    TR-ing:
    - If you're not an Iconic character, Heroic (or Racial) TR can be performed anywhere from level 20 to level 30. It costs 20 Tokens of the Twelve. Your new life can be an iconic if you like, meaning you'll start at 15.
    - If you are Iconic, you need to perform an Iconic TR. This can only be done at 30 and will take you down to level 1 or 15, depending on whether your next life is Iconic. This costs 42 Heart Seeds (aka 4200 Commendations of Valor)
    - At level 30, regardless of Iconic status, you can perform an Epic TR. This knocks you down to level 20 but also effectively performs a Lesser Reincarnation (+0). You get to repick skills, feats, attributes from level 2 onward, but you don't get to change race, alignment, or any class levels. You can't change anything about your character's first level. This costs 42 Heart Seeds (aka 4200 Comms). Unlike any other TRs, it doesn't reset any first-time quest bonuses or favor. You will also need 6m Karma in whatever sphere you're trying to ETR and will have 3 past life options that depend on the sphere you choose. If you have 6m in more than one sphere by the time you're 30 and ready to ETR, you can still only TR one but at least you have some options as to which feat you choose

    If you're TRing a non-Iconic character, your best option is to wait for 30 and double-TR (Epic, then Heroic/Racial). If you can't stand how that character plays, you can do a Heroic/Racial TR before 30, but then whatever xp you've gained between 20 and 30 will be "wasted" (not actually, because it's a game and hopefully you were having fun)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discpsycho View Post
    Bastard swords aren't ideal these days, but that's not the end of the world. They're solid/optimal on tanks, reasonably good on pure (melee) artificers and remain decent on other SWF or S&B builds

    For your Tempest, put 41-45 points in Tempest (depending on how many T5 you want) and at least 20-odd in DWS for Killer. Strimtom's build probably has a layout that'll work for ya.

    TR-ing:
    - If you're not an Iconic character, Heroic (or Racial) TR can be performed anywhere from level 20 to level 30. It costs 20 Tokens of the Twelve. Your new life can be an iconic if you like, meaning you'll start at 15.
    - If you are Iconic, you need to perform an Iconic TR. This can only be done at 30 and will take you down to level 1 or 15, depending on whether your next life is Iconic. This costs 42 Heart Seeds (aka 4200 Commendations of Valor)
    - At level 30, regardless of Iconic status, you can perform an Epic TR. This knocks you down to level 20 but also effectively performs a Lesser Reincarnation (+0). You get to repick skills, feats, attributes from level 2 onward, but you don't get to change race, alignment, or any class levels. You can't change anything about your character's first level. This costs 42 Heart Seeds (aka 4200 Comms). Unlike any other TRs, it doesn't reset any first-time quest bonuses or favor. You will also need 6m Karma in whatever sphere you're trying to ETR and will have 3 past life options that depend on the sphere you choose. If you have 6m in more than one sphere by the time you're 30 and ready to ETR, you can still only TR one but at least you have some options as to which feat you choose

    If you're TRing a non-Iconic character, your best option is to wait for 30 and double-TR (Epic, then Heroic/Racial). If you can't stand how that character plays, you can do a Heroic/Racial TR before 30, but then whatever xp you've gained between 20 and 30 will be "wasted" (not actually, because it's a game and hopefully you were having fun)
    The double-TR is the route I am going to take. She is a 12RGR/8FTR Kensei Tempest build with Oversized Weps & Crit Range in mind, I think B-Sword / Khopesh TWF were the cool things to do back in 2014/2015.

    Now that I remember how to play and got the enhancements spent right, I was able to deal out a lot of damage in Thunderholme and EE VON5/6 which I guess may make for a decent litmus test of sorts. I don't know what happened to Rejuv Cocoon though - I cannot find that anywhere.

    Not sure what I want my next life to be -- or just keep that toon at cap

    thanks again for all of the feedback / advice !

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by axiom21 View Post
    The double-TR is the route I am going to take. She is a 12RGR/8FTR Kensei Tempest build with Oversized Weps & Crit Range in mind, I think B-Sword / Khopesh TWF were the cool things to do back in 2014/2015.

    Now that I remember how to play and got the enhancements spent right, I was able to deal out a lot of damage in Thunderholme and EE VON5/6 which I guess may make for a decent litmus test of sorts. I don't know what happened to Rejuv Cocoon though - I cannot find that anywhere.

    Not sure what I want my next life to be -- or just keep that toon at cap

    thanks again for all of the feedback / advice !
    Back then, you could get TWF glancing blows if you had the THF line and used Bastard Swords. They fixed that a couple of years ago. You also needed 8 Fighter for GWF, which was required for Kensai's damage improvements. I think they've removed those restrictions since, but I don't play Kensai often

    Rejuv is in the same spot as it was: Primal Avatar Tier 1. It's still the go-to twist heal

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