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  1. #1
    DDO QA Team Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Multi-Patch/Update Preview: XP Changes

    Greetings!

    We have been analyzing our data on quests, completion times, and completion numbers, and we have put together some changes we feel will improve players game experience throughout their leveling adventures. We realize that experience points and how players earn them can greatly affect a player's game experience, so we want players to understand the changes.

    First, I want to explain our goals with these changes:
    ~ The rate of leveling overall should not drop for an average player who is playing a lot of different quests.
    ~ Players should be rewarded for playing a wide variety of quests instead of repeating quests over and over.
    ~ Players should not be punished for breaking their regular play pattern to join a group or to help out friends and guild mates.
    ~ We want to close some loopholes for optional objectives.

    As a result of these changes, we hope that more dungeons are viable for normal experience gains, and that playing through a wide variety of dungeons is more appealing and playing dungeons over and over is less appealing. If you are playing the quest the first time in Heroic, you should get the same experience points as before. In Epic you will have an additional 5% bonus.


    1. We are going to make some XP changes to specific quests to bring them into line with their completion time and difficulty. Four quests will have their XP lowered, while many quests will have their XP raised. The exact list has been added to the bottom of this post.

    Note: Not all specific dungeon XP adjustments are implemented, and not all values are final.


    2. Bravery Streak for both hard and elite will change to Hard Dungeons Completed and Elite Dungeons Completed. Bravery streaks will no longer end; they won’t have a chance for ending, you won’t need to turn off your streak (or worse, mess your streak up by forgetting), and you can freely play at any difficulty without the count resetting.

    The bravery streak bonus will be moved into the standard bravery bonus at its full value. We will still track how many times you finish hard and elite dungeons in the UI, but you are no longer required to playing 5 dungeons in a row at a specific difficulty to build a streak. More on this below.

    Bravery Bonus will be based on the base XP for the dungeon as if you were on elite, even if you are playing on hard. Right now the Bravery streak is, at full bonus, 70% of the base XP on Elite. We are increasing that bonus to 100% so players will get more XP the first time they play each quest.

    To clarify, playing a quest on Elite/Reaper will give the full 100% bonus. Playing the quest on Hard gives 50% of the Bravery bonus XP BUT you can reclaim the rest of the Bravery XP if you play it later on Elite. So the most efficient way to get the Bravery XP bonus is to play on Elite, but if you help a friend on Hard you can still get the rest of the difference on Elite/Reaper later. Yes, it is less efficient but you don’t *lose* the bonus.

    To clarify how the new totals work: as previously, when you complete a Hard dungeon quest your Hard Dungeons completed total will increase. When you complete a Elite or Reaper dungeon quest your Hard and Elite totals will be increased.


    3. Increase the Daily bonus.

    To further encourage a diversity of dungeons, the Daily bonus will be increased from 20% to 25% for Heroic dungeons, and 30% for Epic dungeons.


    4. Move some of the XP from the First time bonus, which is per difficulty, to the Bravery bonus.

    It is not our goal to increase outgoing XP; to pay for the above increases we plan on lowering the First time bonus per difficulty.

    Normal difficulty will decrease from 25% to 10%.
    Hard difficulty will decrease from 40% to 20%.
    Elite difficulty will decrease from 80% to 45%.
    Reaper difficulty will decrease from 120% to 75%.

    What does this mean:
    ~ On Normal, Hard, and Elite the first time through a Heroic dungeon including the daily bonus will be the same as it is on live. The first time through Epic dungeons will actually give slightly more XP.
    ~ This makes the practice of repeating dungeons on each difficulty less attractive than finding a new dungeon.


    5. Optional objectives will ransack, and that ransack will not reset over time; they are essentially being changed to a play-through bonus with ransack that only resets with a Racial, True and Iconic Reincarnations. To compensate, optional objectives will ransack more slowly. With this change we can add more, or make more of them have greater rewards. Note: the reduced rate at which optional objectives ransack has not yet been changed on the test server.


    6. The over and under level bonuses for Reaper will be changed to be the same as Elite. This will reduce confusion and provide a wider grouping level.

    The hard stop to entering Reaper on Epic will remain as it is on live, but Heroic will prevent characters from entering Reaper dungeons in the Heroic levels if they are more than 4 levels above the base challenge rating of the quest.



    THE QUEST CHANGE LIST

    This list is not fully implemented on test. Values are still subject to change!

    The following quests will have their XP lowered.

    Grim and Barett: XP lowered by 10%
    The Jungle of Khyber: XP lowered by 10% on Heroic only. Epic will remain unchanged.
    Spies in the House: XP lowered by 10%.
    The Litany of the Dead: XP lowered by 10%

    The following quests will have a MAJOR increase (10-20%) to their XP:

    Temple of Elemental Evil (both halves)

    Precious Cargo

    Desire in the Dark
    Graveyard Shift
    Records of the Past
    Strike Back
    Third Time’s a Charm

    Black and Blue
    The Newcomers

    The following quests will have a MINOR increase (5-10%) to their XP:

    A Small Problem
    Partycrashers
    The Snitch
    Under the Big Top

    Detour
    Rest Stop
    Lost in the Swamp
    A Stay at the Inn
    The End of the Road

    Slave Pits of the Undercity
    Secret of the Slavers' Stockade
    Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords

    Tower of Frost

    Creeping Death (Monster stats will be fixed to be easier)
    To Curse the Sky (Note: stating will be examined and maybe made easier)

    Against the Demon Queen

    Chains of Flame

    The Dreaming Dark

    The Portal Opens
    The House of Broken Chains
    The House of Death Undone
    The House of Rusted Blades
    The Battle of Eveningstar
    The Lost Thread
    The Unquiet Graves
    Don’t Drink the Water
    In the Belly of the Beast
    The Riddle

    Made to Order

    The Cursed Crypt (And we want to move the failure condition to optional if we have time)

    Memory Lapse
    The Price of Freedom

    Enter the Kobold
    Monastery of the Scorpion
    Prey on the Hunter
    Stealer of Souls

    Bargain of Blood
    The Black Loch
    The Tide Turns
    Storm the Beaches

    Archon’s Trial
    Demon Assault
    The Devil’s Details

    The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar
    The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar (extended)

    Shadow of Doubt (Epic Only)
    A Lesson of Deception (Epic Only)
    Army of Shadow (Epic Only)
    Friends in Low Places (Epic Only)
    Thrill of the Hunt (Epic Only)
    Through a Mirror Darkly (Epic Only)

    A Break in the Ice
    Breaking the Ranks
    Lines of Supply
    The Tracker’s Trap
    What Goes Up

    Fathom of the Depths
    Into the Deep
    The Claw of Vulkoor
    The Last Stand

    Acute Delirium
    Terminal Delirum
    Fashion Madness
    The Lord of Eyes
    The Palace of Stone


    Feedback is welcome.

    Sev~
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    5. Optional objectives will ransack, and that ransack will not reset over time; they are essentially being changed to a play-through bonus with ransack that only resets with a Racial, True and Iconic Reincarnations. To compensate, optional objectives will ransack more slowly. With this change we can add more, or make more of them have greater rewards. Note: the reduced rate at which optional objectives ransack has not yet been changed on the test server.
    Since optional objectives will ransack and that ransack won't reset until you R/T/I Reincarnate, could you please have the various bravery/first time/daily/etc. bonuses apply to the optional objectives?
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Shadow of Doubt (Epic Only)
    ...
    Feedback is welcome.

    Sev~
    Shadow of Doubt is not available on epic difficulty.

  4. #4
    Community Member QueenOfTheHook's Avatar
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    Lot's I probably could complain about in this, but thank you for boosting these. I have always thought they were way under xp for their effort.



    Desire in the Dark
    Graveyard Shift
    Records of the Past
    Strike Back
    Third Time’s a Charm

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    To clarify, playing a quest on Elite/Reaper will give the full 100% bonus. Playing the quest on Hard gives 50% of the Bravery bonus XP BUT you can reclaim the rest of the Bravery XP if you play it later on Elite. So the most efficient way to get the Bravery XP bonus is to play on Elite, but if you help a friend on Hard you can still get the rest of the difference on Elite/Reaper later. Yes, it is less efficient but you don’t *lose* the bonus.
    I couldn't tell from the wording, how's this effect things if you're in a party where someone is over-leveled (thus breaking BB) and then doing the instance again without them later?

  6. #6
    Community Member Kza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Greetings!



    6. The over and under level bonuses for Reaper will be changed to be the same as Elite. This will reduce confusion and provide a wider grouping level.



    Sev~
    This alone is awesome. Must admit i have never understood you didnt do this from start.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    6. The over and under level bonuses for Reaper will be changed to be the same as Elite. This will reduce confusion and provide a wider grouping level.

    The hard stop to entering Reaper on Epic will remain as it is on live, but Heroic will prevent characters from entering Reaper dungeons in the Heroic levels if they are more than 4 levels above the base challenge rating of the quest.
    Can you add an example here? Because I know this has caused a lot of confusion for players and the dev team in the past.

    Irestone Inlet is a lvl 4 quest on normal. In the new system:
    Level 6 character receives 100 % rxp.
    Level 7 character receives ?? % penalty.
    ...
    Level x character can no longer enter on reaper difficulty.

  8. #8
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    Will the optional ransack be different between heroic and epic or will running a quest on heroic mean that if I run it again on epic its optionals will be reduced?

  9. #9
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    6. The over and under level bonuses for Reaper will be changed to be the same as Elite. This will reduce confusion and provide a wider grouping level.
    HUH-freakin-ZAH. The mismatch was always goofy as heck.

    The hard stop to entering Reaper on Epic will remain as it is on live, but Heroic will prevent characters from entering Reaper dungeons in the Heroic levels if they are more than 4 levels above the base challenge rating of the quest.
    I'm confused by this. So you still can't enter a heroic dungeon on Reaper if you're level 20+. Okay. But does the change to 4 levels affect heroic AND epic dungeons or ONLY heroic dungeons and epic is still 6 levels above? The way you worded it makes it sound like it's heroic-only and epic will still be 6 levels difference.


    The following quests will have a MAJOR increase (10-20%) to their XP:
    Be prepared for a breakdown.

    Temple of Elemental Evil (both halves)
    Good. Monster stats also need to be adjusted on heroic AND epic.

    Precious Cargo

    Desire in the Dark
    Graveyard Shift
    Records of the Past
    Strike Back
    Third Time’s a Charm

    Black and Blue
    The Newcomers
    All good.

    The following quests will have a MINOR increase (5-10%) to their XP:

    A Small Problem
    Partycrashers
    The Snitch
    Under the Big Top
    A Small Problem needs to be on the Major list. That one quest is the reason why people don't run this chain much.

    Detour
    Rest Stop
    Lost in the Swamp
    A Stay at the Inn
    The End of the Road

    Slave Pits of the Undercity
    Secret of the Slavers' Stockade
    Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords
    Good. Slave lords monster stats need adjustment on heroic only. They are too high and there are too many mobs for a level 8 quest. Alternatively, you could just raise the quest level for all 3 to 10 or even 11. It doesn't need to affect the gear ML, but this would much more accurately reflect the challenge level of the quests on heroic. Detour needs to be on the Major list.

    Tower of Frost
    This quest needs a 100% xp increase. Or more. It's INSANELY poor xp for how long and difficult it is. Also monster stats need to be adjusted on heroic.

    Creeping Death (Monster stats will be fixed to be easier)
    To Curse the Sky (Note: stating will be examined and maybe made easier)
    Both need to be on the Major list.

    Against the Demon Queen
    Chains of Flame
    These don't need xp adjustment. What needs to be adjusted is how much of a pain they are to get to, by adding a teleporter to the explore area.

    The Dreaming Dark

    ]The Portal Opens
    The House of Broken Chains
    The House of Death Undone
    The House of Rusted Blades
    The Battle of Eveningstar
    The Lost Thread
    The Unquiet Graves
    Don’t Drink the Water
    In the Belly of the Beast
    The Riddle
    Eh, okay, whatever, I don't care.

    Made to Order
    Good.

    The Cursed Crypt (And we want to move the failure condition to optional if we have time)
    Which failure condition? The timer or the silver flame deaths? Please remove the silver flame deaths failure thing, that blows and makes this quest painful to do with newbies.

    Memory Lapse
    The Price of Freedom
    Kind of a Big Deal needs a boost too, it's a long run to do that quest.

    Enter the Kobold
    Monastery of the Scorpion
    Prey on the Hunter
    Stealer of Souls
    Actually all of these quests have dandy XP, people xp farm them all the time. Well, except Stealer of Souls, and that one is because of the ridiculous flagging mechanic.

    Bargain of Blood
    The Black Loch
    The Tide Turns
    Storm the Beaches
    Only Black Loch needs an increase, BoB and Storm the Beaches can be completed in under 2 minutes and Tide Turns is also potentially extremely fast. However, all 4 quests need monster stats adjusted downward on Epic only. The mobs have more than twice the HP of other mobs at the same epic level. Alternatively, you could make these quests level 23 on Epic instead of 20, and that would also fix the problem.

    Archon’s Trial
    Demon Assault
    The Devil’s Details
    Good.

    The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar
    The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar (extended)
    Good. Suggest making the optionals in this quest give WAYYYYY more xp.

    Shadow of Doubt (Epic Only)
    A Lesson of Deception (Epic Only)
    Army of Shadow (Epic Only)
    Friends in Low Places (Epic Only)
    Thrill of the Hunt (Epic Only)
    Through a Mirror Darkly (Epic Only)
    Uh, Shadow of a Doubt doesn't have an epic version? Friends in Low Places is the only one that needs increased, really, the others are short and pretty good xp.

    A Break in the Ice
    Breaking the Ranks
    Lines of Supply
    The Tracker’s Trap
    What Goes Up
    Do not need an xp increase.

    Fathom of the Depths
    Into the Deep
    The Claw of Vulkoor
    The Last Stand
    All four to be on the Major list.

    Acute Delirium
    Terminal Delirum
    Fashion Madness
    The Lord of Eyes
    The Palace of Stone
    All of these need to be on the Major list, and you need to RADICALLY reduce monster stats in Terminal Delerium or delete half OR MORE of the monster spawns. That is the single hardest quest in the game to do at level on elite difficulty. I am not joking. It's so insane that even people who go around strutting that they do everything on R10 DO NOT DO THIS QUEST. *removed for rules violation*

    Also, all 4 Druids Curse quests need BIG xp increases.

  10. #10
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    Will the optional ransack be different between heroic and epic or will running a quest on heroic mean that if I run it again on epic its optionals will be reduced?
    GOOD QUESTION. I'd like an answer to this as well.

  11. #11
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Greetings!

    We have been analyzing our data on quests, completion times, and completion numbers, and we have put together some changes we feel will improve players game experience throughout their leveling adventures. We realize that experience points and how players earn them can greatly affect a player's game experience, so we want players to understand the changes.

    First, I want to explain our goals with these changes:
    ~ The rate of leveling overall should not drop for an average player who is playing a lot of different quests.
    ~ Players should be rewarded for playing a wide variety of quests instead of repeating quests over and over.
    ~ Players should not be punished for breaking their regular play pattern to join a group or to help out friends and guild mates.
    ~ We want to close some loopholes for optional objectives.

    As a result of these changes, we hope that more dungeons are viable for normal experience gains, and that playing through a wide variety of dungeons is more appealing and playing dungeons over and over is less appealing. If you are playing the quest the first time in Heroic, you should get the same experience points as before. In Epic you will have an additional 5% bonus.


    1. We are going to make some XP changes to specific quests to bring them into line with their completion time and difficulty. Four quests will have their XP lowered, while many quests will have their XP raised. The exact list has been added to the bottom of this post.

    Note: Not all specific dungeon XP adjustments are implemented, and not all values are final.


    2. Bravery Streak for both hard and elite will change to Hard Dungeons Completed and Elite Dungeons Completed. Bravery streaks will no longer end; they won’t have a chance for ending, you won’t need to turn off your streak (or worse, mess your streak up by forgetting), and you can freely play at any difficulty without the count resetting.

    The bravery streak bonus will be moved into the standard bravery bonus at its full value. We will still track how many times you finish hard and elite dungeons in the UI, but you are no longer required to playing 5 dungeons in a row at a specific difficulty to build a streak. More on this below.

    Bravery Bonus will be based on the base XP for the dungeon as if you were on elite, even if you are playing on hard. Right now the Bravery streak is, at full bonus, 70% of the base XP on Elite. We are increasing that bonus to 100% so players will get more XP the first time they play each quest.

    To clarify, playing a quest on Elite/Reaper will give the full 100% bonus. Playing the quest on Hard gives 50% of the Bravery bonus XP BUT you can reclaim the rest of the Bravery XP if you play it later on Elite. So the most efficient way to get the Bravery XP bonus is to play on Elite, but if you help a friend on Hard you can still get the rest of the difference on Elite/Reaper later. Yes, it is less efficient but you don’t *lose* the bonus.

    To clarify how the new totals work: as previously, when you complete a Hard dungeon quest your Hard Dungeons completed total will increase. When you complete a Elite or Reaper dungeon quest your Hard and Elite totals will be increased.


    3. Increase the Daily bonus.

    To further encourage a diversity of dungeons, the Daily bonus will be increased from 20% to 25% for Heroic dungeons, and 30% for Epic dungeons.


    4. Move some of the XP from the First time bonus, which is per difficulty, to the Bravery bonus.

    It is not our goal to increase outgoing XP; to pay for the above increases we plan on lowering the First time bonus per difficulty.

    Normal difficulty will decrease from 25% to 10%.
    Hard difficulty will decrease from 40% to 20%.
    Elite difficulty will decrease from 80% to 45%.
    Reaper difficulty will decrease from 120% to 75%.

    What does this mean:
    ~ On Normal, Hard, and Elite the first time through a Heroic dungeon including the daily bonus will be the same as it is on live. The first time through Epic dungeons will actually give slightly more XP.
    ~ This makes the practice of repeating dungeons on each difficulty less attractive than finding a new dungeon.


    5. Optional objectives will ransack, and that ransack will not reset over time; they are essentially being changed to a play-through bonus with ransack that only resets with a Racial, True and Iconic Reincarnations. To compensate, optional objectives will ransack more slowly. With this change we can add more, or make more of them have greater rewards. Note: the reduced rate at which optional objectives ransack has not yet been changed on the test server.


    6. The over and under level bonuses for Reaper will be changed to be the same as Elite. This will reduce confusion and provide a wider grouping level.

    The hard stop to entering Reaper on Epic will remain as it is on live, but Heroic will prevent characters from entering Reaper dungeons in the Heroic levels if they are more than 4 levels above the base challenge rating of the quest.



    THE QUEST CHANGE LIST

    This list is not fully implemented on test. Values are still subject to change!

    The following quests will have their XP lowered.

    Grim and Barett: XP lowered by 10%
    The Jungle of Khyber: XP lowered by 10% on Heroic only. Epic will remain unchanged.
    Spies in the House: XP lowered by 10%.
    The Litany of the Dead: XP lowered by 10%

    The following quests will have a MAJOR increase (10-20%) to their XP:

    Temple of Elemental Evil (both halves)bad quest, unbalanced, wouldn't play with 400% exp

    Precious Cargo

    Desire in the Dark
    Graveyard Shift
    Records of the Past
    Strike Back
    Third Time’s a Charm
    bad quests, they play like molasses, unbalanced, wouldn't play with 400% exp

    Black and Blue
    The Newcomers
    bad quests, unbalanced, wouldn't play with 400% exp

    The following quests will have a MINOR increase (5-10%) to their XP:

    A Small Problem has issues on higher reaper, this entire chain plays like a.....$$ on a melee, due to their low level in epics, many skip these for slayer zones
    Partycrashers
    The Snitch
    Under the Big Top

    Detour
    Rest Stop
    Lost in the Swamp
    A Stay at the Inn
    The End of the Road
    bad quests, unbalanced, boring, wouldn't play with 400% exp

    Slave Pits of the Undercity
    Secret of the Slavers' Stockade
    Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords
    bad quests, unbalanced especially in heroics in epics it's only run for mats and reaper(at cap), wouldn't play with 400% exp

    Tower of Frostog, this thing still exists, if this wasn't f2p, i would ask for my money back, realy unballanced quest for f2p players

    Creeping Death (Monster stats will be fixed to be easier)
    To Curse the Sky (Note: stating will be examined and maybe made easier)
    at best, i see this played on heroic (while being lv 30, to flag or pick up 5k favor), both quests play like molasses, un-fun for some play-styles, incoming damage is way to high, yugh

    Against the Demon Queen

    Chains of Flame

    The Dreaming Dark

    The Portal Opens
    The House of Broken Chains
    The House of Death Undone
    The House of Rusted Blades
    The Battle of Eveningstar
    The Lost Thread
    The Unquiet Graves
    Don’t Drink the Water
    In the Belly of the Beast
    The Riddle

    Made to Order

    The Cursed Crypt (And we want to move the failure condition to optional if we have time)
    details please

    Memory Lapse
    The Price of Freedomhahahahahahahaha

    Enter the Kobold
    Monastery of the Scorpion
    Prey on the Hunter
    Stealer of Souls
    the problem is getting a group for this at all and the general issues with these quests (aka getting to sos), no group, almost sure no etk and monestairy due to their endfight mechanics. it's the reason why many people skip these in general in favor of picking up gh/rl/sharn sagas, giving a minor raise to these won't fix them nor make people want to run them.

    Bargain of Blood
    The Black Loch
    The Tide Turns
    Storm the Beaches

    Archon’s Trial
    Demon Assault
    The Devil’s Details

    The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar
    The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar (extended)

    Shadow of Doubt (Epic Only)
    A Lesson of Deception (Epic Only)
    Army of Shadow (Epic Only)
    Friends in Low Places (Epic Only)
    Thrill of the Hunt (Epic Only)
    Through a Mirror Darkly (Epic Only)

    A Break in the Ice
    Breaking the Ranks
    Lines of Supply
    The Tracker’s Trap
    What Goes Up

    Fathom of the Depths
    Into the Deep
    The Claw of Vulkoor
    The Last Stand

    Acute Delirium
    Terminal Delirum hahahahaha, just no.
    Fashion Madness
    The Lord of Eyes
    The Palace of Stone


    Feedback is welcome.

    Sev~
    The added exp is nice for some quest but no reason to run some of them, many of them are still broken, unbalanced and absolutely no fun to be near, let alone in.
    Fixing the issues inherent in those quests and fixing issues with some of the classes and plays styles will yield better results when it comes to getting more players to run these.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  12. #12
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    I am looking at the xp changes for bonus.

    Right now on elite it breaks down as so:

    80% first time elite + 20% first time ever doing mission on elite + 50% bravery bonus if maxed = 150%

    New numbers:

    45% first time elite + 100% first time ever and BB = 145% plus an extra 5% below the line increase.

    Works out, checks out, not much difference other than to encourage are more diverse group of quests as intended.

    I run R1 leveling up and the numbers break down as so:

    120% first time reaper + 30% first time ever doing mission on reaper + 50% BB = 200%

    New numbers:

    75% first time reaper + 100% matching elite, possible 110% keeping the 30% first time ever reaper = 175% possibly 185% with a 5% below the line increase.


    So if the goal is to keep the numbers the same what is reaper going to get to close up this gap? Am I just missing something?

  13. #13
    Community Member Dabima's Avatar
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    I know there probably won't be time to make any adjustments other than xp, but Tower of Frost mobs need to be adjusted in a major way on epic. On Epic Elite, the quest is level 26 if I recall correct, but the creatures all hit like it is R5 Ravenloft or Sharn. I think they have something like 1400 damage on attacks pre-PRR, which is insane for the level
    Orien: ][Vladtepes][Gelatinous][Lelitha]

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkmar View Post
    I am looking at the xp changes for bonus.

    Right now on elite it breaks down as so:

    80% first time elite + 20% first time ever doing mission on elite + 50% bravery bonus if maxed = 150%

    New numbers:

    45% first time elite + 100% first time ever and BB = 145% plus an extra 5% below the line increase.

    Works out, checks out, not much difference other than to encourage are more diverse group of quests as intended.

    I run R1 leveling up and the numbers break down as so:

    120% first time reaper + 30% first time ever doing mission on reaper + 50% BB = 200%

    New numbers:

    75% first time reaper + 100% matching elite, possible 110% keeping the 30% first time ever reaper = 175% possibly 185% with a 5% below the line increase.


    So if the goal is to keep the numbers the same what is reaper going to get to close up this gap? Am I just missing something?

    Agreed what is the above poster missing?
    Is it really the direction that R1 first time plays are getting a whack? This doesn't make much sense to me.

    XP nerfing in any way isn't my favorite. Other quests should be brought up to the primo quests.

    Litany especially. Its a nice little bonus to those who have run the flagging on a previous life.

  15. #15
    Community Member Requiro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    5. Optional objectives will ransack, and that ransack will not reset over time; they are essentially being changed to a play-through bonus with ransack that only resets with a Racial, True and Iconic Reincarnations. To compensate, optional objectives will ransack more slowly. With this change we can add more, or make more of them have greater rewards. Note: the reduced rate at which optional objectives ransack has not yet been changed on the test server.
    What about the Devil Assault quest? And all other quests in which XP is marked as an optional XP, but really required to complete the quest?

    BTW: Tower of Frost need more like +50% more XP.
    Last edited by Requiro; 07-24-2019 at 04:22 PM.
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  16. #16
    Community Member CSQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    5. Optional objectives will ransack, and that ransack will not reset over time; they are essentially being changed to a play-through bonus with ransack that only resets with a Racial, True and Iconic Reincarnations. To compensate, optional objectives will ransack more slowly. With this change we can add more, or make more of them have greater rewards. Note: the reduced rate at which optional objectives ransack has not yet been changed on the test server.
    I like everything here except this. (Well, and the XP nerfs, but those need to happen, so I'll concede). My problem isn't with optional ransack, it's with the ransack not resetting. Particularly, the quest I worry about for this is Devil Assault. It's a standard "daily" for farming tokens, and the vast majority of its XP payout comes from optional objectives. Since this ransack isn't reset on epic lives, someone who is farming out a bunch of heroic hearts will be hit particularly hard by this. That's literally my only complaint about this though- everything else looks great, and even in other quests I think it's wonderful. Perhaps if it weren't such a pain to get tokens for hearts, this would be a moot point.
    I primarily play Zunzyne Siegemaker, and am the guild master of Ares Macrotechnology on Ghallanda.
    Reaper Experience Calculator: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ewE/edit#gid=0 (out of date as of U42.4, needs testing for new values)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    Will the optional ransack be different between heroic and epic or will running a quest on heroic mean that if I run it again on epic its optionals will be reduced?
    this needs answering.

    your friend sil

  18. #18
    Community Member aoeusnth's Avatar
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    Yes, yes, yes!

    A lot of good changes here. I'm very excited.

    1. As someone who has a spreadsheet of every quest in DDO with my typical completion times and exact XP bonuses and totals, it is great to see quest XP adjusted for outliers. I'd like to echo PsychoBlonde's post on the experience of quests and which ones could use less or more. She already outlined which quests definitely need more and which quests are already fine.

    I also love that there will be more reason to run multiple quests instead of farming the same quests over and over again. I absolutely loathed doing dailies and endless Wiz King farming for my Epic lives. I really just want to have a reason to play tons of different quests and actually experience all the content there is for Epics without it being so unrewarding.

    2., 3., and 4. Nice, makes sense.

    5. The optional ransack is interesting. Is there any reason the bug that prevented optionals from ransacking correctly (thus allowing the endless Wiz King farming) was not fixed? It seems like doing that would have been the simplest and easiest thing to do (which, of course, means it probably isn't for some reason).

    I do really like the sound of more optionals and them being more rewarding, though!

    6. Yes! This never made any sense and was so confusing. Having a wider level range should help with grouping too.

  19. #19
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    5. Optional objectives will ransack, and that ransack will not reset over time; they are essentially being changed to a play-through bonus with ransack that only resets with a Racial, True and Iconic Reincarnations. To compensate, optional objectives will ransack more slowly. With this change we can add more, or make more of them have greater rewards. Note: the reduced rate at which optional objectives ransack has not yet been changed on the test server.

    Why not reset on ER as well? If you only play in epics and only do ER's, after a few reincarnations, you'll be getting no optional XP's from any quest.

  20. #20
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    I'm also SERIOUSLY, seriously, seriously concerned about the Optional perma-ransack.

    Like others have said, those who are on an ETR chain are going to be seriously disadvantaged by the fact that the optionals wont reset. Or people who are choosing to stay at cap for a while and level Sentient weapons, Reaper XP, karma, etc. They are going to be playing quests multiple times without resetting, even if they play every quest they own equally.

    I understand wanting to promote playing a wider variety of quests. But at the same time you dont want to force players into playing quests they dont like, just because all quests they do like have become so devalued.

    There's a number of quests I enjoy playing, which get a significant proportion of their total XP from optionals. Many of them are even on your list of "needs help", but you're taking XP away from them in the long run...

    - Overgrowth
    - VoN 3
    - Shadow Crypt - though, to be fair, low-level Heroic-only quests arent likely to be affected much unless you're running them an inordinate amount since you'll only see them again after you TR
    - Basically any wave-based point defense, like Devil Assault or Breaking the Ranks. BtR is one of my favorite dailies
    - Lines of Supply will be SERIOUSLY impacted
    - Partycrashers has major side optionals after the quest completion - no point in doing them more than once or twice now
    - Under the Big Top
    - Wiz King's optional XP is the only thing making up for having to run an entire wing and it not be the right one
    - Many quests have a string of optional objectives that are "baked into" the base XP because you complete them as the quest goes along: Trial by Fury, Prison of the Planes, Sealed in Amber and Detour are some examples. Perma-decay is essentially permanently reducing the XP.
    - Other quests have optional objectives for doing things better than you need to - Study in Sable, e.g. With those decaying, it just encourages you to ignore them and only do the bare minimum to complete.
    - Anything with "do some things"/"do more things"/"do all the things" optionals...Frame Work, Lost Thread. Best Laid Plans - and you JUST designed this quest, so it cant be that far out of your design philosophy now.

    Also, making optionals perma-decay seems like it will just encourage people to play a super-zerg style that ignores the optionals. In many quests, a worthwhile optional will pull people off the main quest path every play-through, but with decay then you'll quickly fall back on just blitzing everything as fast as possible.

    - Mirror Darkly, there's a few optional fights that are worth swinging out for, but not if they decay.
    - WGU, the optional shade
    - Impossible Demands, no one will ever do anything except rushing the priestess now

    I'm sure people can think of lots of other examples - I might not have some quests that fall into these categories - but I think I've made my point.

    Optionals should be balanced just like base quest XP is - by how tough they are, and how much time they add to a quest, then calibrated on an XP/min standpoint to make them worthwhile. Having them gradually become worthless is not a good way to serve long-term gameplay, its just forcing unnecessary penalty-minimization choices on players.

    I also want to point out that Sagas were introduced specifically to address this same issue - encouraging players to play a more holistic set of quests rather than just going down their list of min-max dailies. If you feel people are still not diversifying their playthroughs enough, why not boost Saga rewards or create new Sagas with existing non-Saga quests, to make it more rewarding that way? I dont think nerfing optionals long-term is going to encourage more diversity, I think its just going to be a sideways move towards a new set of dailies with higher base XP.

    ~ We want to close some loopholes for optional objectives.
    That sounds like things that should be addressed on a case-by-case basis, with individual adjustments...not by tanking optionals across the board. You have a termite problem and your solution is nuking the city from orbit.
    Last edited by droid327; 07-24-2019 at 06:40 PM.

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