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  1. #161
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    So more nerfs to melee's while more buffs to casters / ranged players?

    The only people getting close to those mobs are melee's, casters and ranged stay back standing on top of stuff locking things down and either shooting / blasting or instant deathing. Any plans to make mid to high reaper mobs actually survivable instead of them doing 500~5000 damage to a plate wearing melee with 250 PRR? Things like blur and displacement were necessary to have a snowballs chance in hell of surviving more then a few seconds until casters would CC everything again, with both being nerfed expect even fewer melees to be invited.

  2. #162
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We implemented a functional prototype for a design like this before revising our design, reverting the changes, and landing on our current implementation. The older design unfairly punished people with fewer Reaper points relative to those with more; we do not want to do that.

    This version limits the top-end HP gain in those level bands without doing that.
    The way I read this..
    You are punishing the players that put in the extra time effort and resources to get the tweaks and bonusses to support the players that don't.
    Sure comes across as ashbackwards..

    Why are you prostrating to the casual player complaining about not having reaper point who not running the higher skulls or difficulties or sinking the hours into the game
    How are you unfairly punishing players that don't put in the time and effort to get the perks, they haven't invested time, effort, resources to earn those points.

    I expect a game to reward me for sinking time into it, not punishing me for it because some other players cant be bothered to put in the time and think they should be on an equal footing.


    Maybe I am missing something, or spend too much time playing the game doing hundreds of TRs and farming content to try and stars align my toons to be useful in higher difficulty content.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 08-01-2019 at 07:14 PM.
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  3. #163
    Community Member Indubitably's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    Some good points in there, however definitely disagree with this. It's not difficult to support both play styles, and arguably all styles should have at least some DPS to not get stuck an eternity on boss fights when soloing.
    Don't get me wrong on this point. I have been wanting to be able to effectively nuke for YEARS now! I was also getting increasingly annoyed at being forced into the same instakill/enchant playstyle everytime i went caster, and being unable to be at all effective verse bosses or immune monsters.

    I (and I'm sure many other people, unless they exclusively play melee) do want nuking to be a perfectly viable option. The recent changes have been fantastic, and they need to keep going with them until they feel right (archmage, sorc, ED caster stuff, etc). I'm just worried that that they might be going in two opposite directions at once and create the opposite problem they have had for the past few years.

    Now, I could live with this, I could use a good reason to go nuke happy and enjoy a new playstyle, but at the end of the day, I'd rather there was a balance and a reason for both (or all of em). Its a hard thing to balance, and now they are throwing a ton of melee options at casters and SP consumption is back on the table...

  4. #164
    2015 DDO Players Council Cetus's Avatar
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    I would love to be an effective nuker at endgame. However, it's impossible to balance.

    As long as spellpoint potions exist without limitations on their use, the people with the fatter wallets (or exceptionally good access to the old ethernet cable) will be the ones completing everything when nuking becomes effective.

    Spellpoint potions need a cooldown.
    Last edited by Cetus; 08-03-2019 at 01:03 PM.
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  5. #165
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    I would love to be an effective nuker at endgame. However, it's impossible to balance.

    As long as spellpoint potions exist without limitations on their use, the people with the fatter wallets (or exceptionally good access to the old ethernet cable) will be the ones completing everything when nuking becomes effective.

    Spellpoint potions need a cooldown.
    Nukers are good for trash mobs and thats about it.
    Meatsack HP mobs and bosses are not conducive to casters, game is lacking useful debuff spells for bosses and contribute to the overall party.
    The change to bosses that invalidated every caster spell effectively made casters worthless in Boss fights.
    The upcoming reaper changes to casters don't help casters they just further neuter their limited usefulness.

    as to pots..can't see it happening, pay to win pots are positive cashflow, removing pots or adding timers just further invalidates casters without any decent mana regen options.
    and not that BS temp SP for a minute sh.scraps, casters need real mana regen options, gone are the days when torc and con-op were actually useful.


    Melee have the advantage of tireless continuous DPS, perhaps they should add stamina bars for melee.. and DDO store stamina pots.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 08-03-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    I would love to be an effective nuker at endgame. However, it's impossible to balance.

    As long as spellpoint potions exist without limitations on their use, the people with the fatter wallets (or exceptionally good access to the old ethernet cable) will be the ones completing everything when nuking becomes effective.

    Spellpoint potions need a cooldown.
    Nobody is calling for DPS parity with melee. I don't see what the problem is when ranged is already doing nearly melee DPS. Let's face it, the DPS alternative to melee is not going to be nuking casters.

    I agree that balancing with spell point usage is a lost cause though. However, if you approach the problem from both DPS and defense stats, I'm confident you could achieve decent balance. E.g. DPS should be 20-65% lower based on AoE size and range. On the defensive side, all melee should be more durable to offset range/CC advantages. Light armor melee should be able to reliably facetank 1 trash mob with good healer backup, tankier builds more mobs & more efficiently. To throw out some target values, single-target ranged attacks should average 65% of melee (perhaps more if stationary), line-based AoE doing e.g. 50%, cone-based 40% and targeted cylinder say 30% (could also be achieved through cooldowns). Let melee have both 20-50% more HP and PRR.

    As casters currently mostly have AoE abilities, this is pretty tricky to balance with the additional constraints of spell points though. Perhaps it's reasonable that it would take 8 AoE nukes to kill 1 mob in reaper, but if casters want to fill a DPS rotation it's not like they have much choice.

    As an aside, I suspect end-game DPS will, with notable exceptions, end up not too far from this after the changes. If they keep tweaking I'm hopeful that it's doable.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 08-03-2019 at 04:01 PM.

  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    I would love to be an effective nuker at endgame. However, it's impossible to balance.

    As long as spellpoint potions exist without limitations on their use, the people with the fatter wallets (or exceptionally good access to the old ethernet cable) will be the ones completing everything when nuking becomes effective.

    Spellpoint potions need a cooldown.
    Simply put nukes on cooldowns and get rid of mana. Else make weapons only good for x amount of hits per dungeon before breaking and having to use a rest shrine to "sharpen" and care for weapons. Bow strings break the whole 9, and dont roll a 1 on a to hit or nuke save, you just killed yourself.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Nukers are good for trash mobs and thats about it.
    Meatsack HP mobs and bosses are not conducive to casters, game is lacking useful debuff spells for bosses and contribute to the overall party.
    The change to bosses that invalidated every caster spell effectively made casters worthless in Boss fights.
    The upcoming reaper changes to casters don't help casters they just further neuter their limited usefulness.

    as to pots..can't see it happening, pay to win pots are positive cashflow, removing pots or adding timers just further invalidates casters without any decent mana regen options.
    and not that BS temp SP for a minute sh.scraps, casters need real mana regen options, gone are the days when torc and con-op were actually useful.


    Melee have the advantage of tireless continuous DPS, perhaps they should add stamina bars for melee.. and DDO store stamina pots.
    I wish I really could see the numbers on pot sales. This gets thrown around in every melee vs caster argument, I just can't believe people are regularly buying spell point potions un less they just already have all the content and just need something to spend points on. In which case, it's not real cash flow. It's either favor or vip points. (maybe to post some video, but not regular play)
    Last edited by Cantor; 08-03-2019 at 09:33 PM.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacyreus View Post
    Fear is a very poor mechanic in DDO, nobody likes to go running after a mob to kill it.
    It actually is the winner for the most annoying build possible. However, you work with what you are given.

    /3 Wizard for Scare spell + Inquisitor + Harper + (Zombie?) seems like a really good replacement base for Soundburst + melee for leveling in reaper. This will make up for the extra saves in reaper due to targeting will instead of fort and reduced melee damage in low reaper and reduced damage again due to reduced helpless damage.

    PS: I tested and LGS Salt only hits one target at a time (targeted mob or closest one with no target) so that doesn't work to lock mobs down, but Scare still CC's them.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 08-05-2019 at 03:11 PM.

  10. #170
    Uber Completionist kuzka111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We implemented a functional prototype for a design like this before revising our design, reverting the changes, and landing on our current implementation. The older design unfairly punished people with fewer Reaper points relative to those with more; we do not want to do that.

    This version limits the top-end HP gain in those level bands without doing that.
    That's funny maybe next updated you put limit on pl bc for example i go all plx3 and its unfairly to ppl that start or got only few
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