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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Greetings,


    3. It will be slightly harder to keep creatures locked down. First, Reaper creatures will have an additional +4 to their saving throws versus spells. In addition, the formula for reducing the duration of crowd control will be tweaked so crowd control duration reductions ramps up more quickly by about 25% at Reaper 10. As an example, an unmodified caster level 20 Mass Hold would be reduced on live to 12 seconds in duration on Reaper 10; the same spell would be reduced to 9.6 seconds. The minimum duration of 6 seconds still applies as it does on live.

    As an example, at Reaper 5 each saving throw a monster makes is increased by a randomized number between 1 and 15 on live, it would be 1 and 20 going forward.


    Sev~
    Is this for all spell school or enchant spells? Better yet, is this for mob Fort saves, reflex saves and will saves or only will saves adjustment?

    adding another 4 DC vs spells and then a random of 1 to 20 will make sorcs save for 0 damage quite a bit more when evasive mob make a reflex save.

    This will be the same for necro DC when fort saves in the newer content are 115+ already.

  2. #42
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    personal point of view:

    I am mostly doing solo TR train on r2-r3, while i would have love to be melee while doing it, the simple fact is melee get the short end of the stick, and because i hate caster AND you can't CC or IK bosses, this leave only one option for me, ranged DPS with no save CC-ish abilities.

    as people join my public LFM and raise skulls, i often see only casters being of much use especially in higher reaper, while any melee toon often end up either as a soulstone, or reduced to pick mobs 1v1 that are aggroed by sm1 else
    Caster and ranged toons (myself included) seem to be where it's at.

    the extra HP help me survive a few hit more IF something manage to reach me, while the melee get pummeled, I can see why you want to prevent lower level toons from abusing the HP aspect of the reaper tree, but honestly the level gate of the tiers was already doing that, and to get that extra HP it meant to waste points in trees u might not use, and paying plat to respect. I would love an explanation on why you felt this change was necessary.

    similarly, being able to sustain 100% dodge temporarily was one of the only way for a melee to handle a large crowd while the team managed to thin the herd/CC them, as a ranged it just mean i will be more careful about keeping my distances, like when fighting champs that bypass dodge, not a huge diff for me (or casters) but I can see melees getting really impacted by this. and mean i will stay away from playing melee for the time being.

    while i don't mind changes to reaper to make it more hard and hammer down exposed nails, it seem from my point of view that melees were already trampled on in reaper before, and are with this hammered further down. and that melee are getting affected disproportionately vs other archetypes.

    I might be wrong, I would love to know how long people were able to maintain 100% dodge and how often? was it only a monk thingy? what archetype was abusing reaper hit point?
    Are these changes meant to make r1-r2 harder that elite regardless of how many points u have? if so you might have inadvertently screwed high reaper for melee even more.

    maybe you could give us some insights on why melees/tanking seem to get the hardest hit, (CC casters also get a bit of a hit, depending of the build YMMV)

    edit: beside cap, I do feel all this will be SLIGHTLY alleviated by the fact we can reaper at +2base lvl, and will help improve grouping, go good work there
    Last edited by Gabrael; 07-25-2019 at 11:45 AM.
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  3. #43
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrael View Post
    i often see only casters being of much use especially in higher reaper
    Bollocks.
    3 - 4 melees + cc + healer is the fastest and easiest reaper party.

    You need deeps, lots of it unless you are interested in 30 mins deathfest slogs.

    Shahang (hjeal me), Wipekin (tempest), Nezhat (barbie) Ghallanda/Devourer

  4. #44
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabrael View Post
    I might be wrong, I would love to know how long people were able to maintain 100% dodge and how often? was it only a monk thingy?
    Part Monk is 100% required to get the bare minimum (50%) standing Dodge so that Improved Uncanny Dodge can work you up to 100% Dodge. This is only possible via the Water Stance at Grand Mastery.

    This was possible since the Dodge change and before Champions and Champ Buffs were introduced, so around 3-4 years ago now.

    Limitations (for the Dodge all day long types, not the one time and wait for the one Temp Dodge clickie version pretenders):
    Specific Races only: Halfling or Gnome (Vulnerable to Gust of Wind and Cyclonic Blast knockdown)
    Equipment Heavy: LGS Dodge required (Two Pieces minimum), T7 Sentient Gem needed and specific non dps Filigree needed
    Stance specific: Water stance only
    Tree limitation: No capstone available
    Destiny limitation: Primal Avatar
    PRR and MRR limitation: PRR barely breaks 120, MRR doesn't break 40
    Melee Power: More around 60-80 than 100+

    Personal version (Jedinja, Halfling Dodger):
    60% Dodge (standing)
    Mist Stalker V (20s Dodge boost, 60s cooldown)
    Primal Travel (12s Dodge boost, 60s cooldown; will be altered in new Update)
    Meld into Darkness (15 Dodge boost, 120s cooldown)
    Improved Uncanny Dodge (20s Dodge boost, 60s cooldown)
    Mist Stalker V (20s Dodge boost, 60s cooldown)
    Primal Travel (12s Dodge boost, 60s cooldown; again, will be altered in new Update)

    That gives 100% Dodge for Jedinja for 1 minute 29s. Before I have a 21s cooldown for all Temp Dodge buffs to go off timer for use again. If you have Helm that gives 50% Dodge for 25s, then you can have around 3 minutes 20 odd seconds of non stop 100% Dodge. Although it'll be better to grab some Radiant Forcefield pots/scrolls and use with Dark Discorporation (their Damage Reduction properties stack), with Displacement and Incorporeal (which I have on Jedinja). This means I only take 37.5% damage before PRR/MRR comes into play, but at a cost of such clickies - during the downtime between each exhausted Temp Dodge buff; which fortunately can be crafted in the Legendary Shroud as well (but needs many ings). Or indeed, if you had Racial Completionist, etc. You could go Ranger and get Elaborate Parry, and gain another clickie for Temp Dodge (which would give you 2 minutes 20s odd worth of 100% Dodge in current Live play settings before needing to call on the Dodge Helm or other sources of defence whilst Dodge is out).

    Anyway, essentially, it's been possible to do this for years now. And at healthy Dodge levels (100% or more), but at a loss of dps and other defences. Which is why most of these designed toons are utility toons instead (fast trappers). I'm fairly certain I'm the fastest trapper for Strahd with Jedinja because the Armours can't hit me whilst I'm dodging and dealing with traps, whilst most other trappers could get pelted and disrupted quite often.

    And also why I suggested Dodge be allowed to continue "as is" due to its temporary nature, but force players with such amounts of Dodge to either take risks (by not having 100% effective Dodge), or use another Temp Dodge buff/clickie and get it the total effective Dodge above the Dodge bypass that is given to enemies (through the suggestion I made of enemies having Dodge bypass at certain difficulties). This essentially burns through the available Temp Dodge clickies and reduces them by half at least; but retains the flavor of being able to be invincible to "melee" (if wanted to by the player). Which isn't all that, but useful. Because we all know that the Devs dropped all these other abilities on mobs that will basically burn through such a character because their MRR is simply too low to resist. And of course, it'll mean that those who specialise into Dodge can still remain Dodging without having it all invalidated because of a buff that ignores all of it which is progressively being given out to everyone. So rather than invalidate an entire defence (and what makes it useful; 100% being total, as it is temporary in nature), make it better functional by the system I suggested (which gives players choices to make, often hard ones in runs, especially PUGS).

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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wipey View Post
    Bollocks.
    3 - 4 melees + cc + healer is the fastest and easiest reaper party.

    You need deeps, lots of it unless you are interested in 30 mins deathfest slogs.
    I think this is true in easy reapers like dailies, ravenloft, cogs. Tougher reapers i.e best laid plans r10 , i find easier dropping 1 dps and having a bear tank.
    Triple All

    Ghallanda forever.

  6. #46
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    My poor bard. He already suffers from a 20 sec cooldown mass hold that costs 6 AP, now the duration is going to be even less. No no no no no no. Not fair! Bard is getting horrifically screwed in these changes.

    Last edited by HastyPudding; 07-25-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Here's what I think SSG said - I'll use VoN3 Jungle of Khyber as my example. Level 9 Heroic and level 22 Epic.
    ...
    Reaper XP -> Level 9 quest = "at level" for full reaper XP with no penalties for reaper XP is character level 9.
    If you are character level 10, you get a -20% Reaper XP penalty
    If you are character level 11, you get a -50% Reaper XP penalty
    ...
    New system: (*I think*)
    Regular XP -> Level 9 heroic +2 for Elite = "at level" for bravery bonus, full XP, etc. on Elite is character level 11.
    If you are character level 12, you still get full "regular" XP, but no bravery bonus
    If you are character level 13, you get -10% XP penalty for being over level.

    Reaper XP -> EXACTLY THE SAME AS REGULAR XP
    Is that what they mean, that you get full Reaper XP when you're running over-level? I sure hope not! Dumbing down Reaper even more, when it was supposed to be a challenge difficulty? Rewarding the exploiters who admit they have no interest in challenge and are only running R1 for extra regular XP?

    If anything, they should change it the other way, so you only get full regular XP at 9, even in Elite.

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    (Edit: I'd love to have someone from SSG say whether I understand this correctly or not)
    Yes, we need some clarity on a change this huge!
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  8. #48
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Is that what they mean, that you get full Reaper XP when you're running over-level? I sure hope not! Dumbing down Reaper even more, when it was supposed to be a challenge difficulty? Rewarding the exploiters who admit they have no interest in challenge and are only running R1 for extra regular XP?

    If anything, they should change it the other way, so you only get full regular XP at 9, even in Elite.

    You can still choose to run Reaper or Elite at lower character levels if you want to do that. Nothing is stopping you from getting the challenge you want.
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  9. #49
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    As I noted in another thread, I think this update generally looks great. But, I wonder why the Devs are making r1-r2 harder. It does not seem unreasonable to me (others who play more high skull can give more coherent feedback on that style of play) to make higher skull reaper harder. But r1-r2 is where the newer player, the players who play less, and the folks on less populated servers are trying to advance their characters. I would give some serious though to the impact of this change--and also to the potential impact of reducing rxp for first-time completions. Although I am not advocating making low skulls easier than they are now or increasing rep above the levels that they are at now, it seems to me that it would be better for the game to open the gate a bit for newer and more casual players (who will never catch up to the top players anyway) rather than close it. No, r1 is not really the new elite from the standpoint of this group. And particularly not in low epics.

  10. #50
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JQP View Post
    As I noted in another thread, I think this update generally looks great. But, I wonder why the Devs are making r1-r2 harder. It does not seem unreasonable to me (others who play more high skull can give more coherent feedback on that style of play) to make higher skull reaper harder. But r1-r2 is where the newer player, the players who play less, and the folks on less populated servers are trying to advance their characters. I would give some serious though to the impact of this change--and also to the potential impact of reducing rxp for first-time completions. Although I am not advocating making low skulls easier than they are now or increasing rep above the levels that they are at now, it seems to me that it would be better for the game to open the gate a bit for newer and more casual players (who will never catch up to the top players anyway) rather than close it. No, r1 is not really the new elite from the standpoint of this group. And particularly not in low epics.
    There now letting you go in to Reaper 2 levels higher and not take a penalty I think that should counter any increases in difficulty at the low end may even be making it easy then it is now depending on build and level.

  11. #51
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    Making r1's harder is problematic for those like me with little to no reaper points. It's just going to make the divide between those who've been able to take advantage of old ways of getting points and newer reaper players greater. Or are we just supposed to only do reapers now while over leveled to offset this? At least with low level reaper stuff currently I don't feel like I'm useless and just leeching off those with more reaper points.

  12. #52
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    On lamania now looking around.


    Pondering something:


    Ok, penalty levels being changed means that reaper will likely be run at typical bravery levels, but according to some bravery does not affect rxp.

    So, a group focusing on rxp only is likely to run character level +3 base dungeon level?
    EI run the Vale at level 19?


    In the past my experience has been that character level +2 base dungeon level is significantly easier than character level base dungeon level.

    Perhaps the devs need to consider having bravery affect rxp bonuses?
    Is this bug, oversight or are we players missing something?
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 07-25-2019 at 01:46 PM.

  13. #53
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    "3. It will be slightly harder to keep creatures locked down. First, Reaper creatures will have an additional +4 to their saving throws versus spells. In addition, the formula for reducing the duration of crowd control will be tweaked so crowd control duration reductions ramps up more quickly by about 25% at Reaper 10. As an example, an unmodified caster level 20 Mass Hold would be reduced on live to 12 seconds in duration on Reaper 10; the same spell would be reduced to 9.6 seconds. The minimum duration of 6 seconds still applies as it does on live.



    As an example, at Reaper 5 each saving throw a monster makes is increased by a randomized number between 1 and 15 on live, it would be 1 and 20 going forward."




    I'm confused by this part. Does this mean that the dcs for spells are increased by +4 flat and another potential +5 from the random component as per the example, so by +5 to +9 overall? If so that's a ridiculous increase on top of the duration decrease,
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    Making r1's harder is problematic for those like me with little to no reaper points. It's just going to make the divide between those who've been able to take advantage of old ways of getting points and newer reaper players greater. Or are we just supposed to only do reapers now while over leveled to offset this? At least with low level reaper stuff currently I don't feel like I'm useless and just leeching off those with more reaper points.
    Running at bb level should more than make up the difficulty increase. I cant try lamma right now. But I know how much easier 2 levels makes it on low skulls.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    Running at bb level should more than make up the difficulty increase. I cant try lamma right now. But I know how much easier 2 levels makes it on low skulls.
    I agree with you regarding how reaper current works on live. And, if, with the update, they in fact do not reduce rxp for running 2 over level and do not significantly increase increase the difficulty of r1-r2, then you are right. But I don't think Sev's point 13, which is what I think you were relying on, explicitly says that.

  16. #56
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    I really like most of this. BB changes are great. HP caps are a good idea. Excited to see the new reapers. etc.

    I'm not really sure why you feel you need to push against the current meta of CC+melee DPS. It's true that is the the meta right now... but it seems like a good meta. It rewards mixed parties, coordination, and timing. And encourages the archtypes that I think most people want to play. Is a new meta of six inquistives machine gunning everything without CC (other than range/kite) going to make for a more fun game?

    That said I'm for shaking up the meta as a general thing regardless. Keeps people on their toes and thinking critically about how to do these things.
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  17. #57
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    So why exactly are all the tactical abilities all immune to this awesome fun reaper challenge epic ward stuffs anyways

    Not like its completely free wait a minute 10 dc hit to start then random saves every skull lol
    Damonz Cannith

  18. #58
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    Dev chime in on why all tactical abilities are immune to challenge fun stuffs

    Dire charge, Assasinates, all the rest

    And the charm nerf def needed to get us real dps but come on
    Damonz Cannith

  19. #59
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
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    as i see it, this update is missing just one more thing, a lowering of the exp reward bonus to elite level.

    why? to stop forcing everyone into running reaper just because leveling is faster on reaper.
    it got to the point where its hard to get a party for an elite quest run, and it should stop.

    reaper was advertised in the begining as a challenge difficoulty for those who saw game as too easy, so why everyone has to do it.

    its often either join/do reaper or play alone...
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  20. #60
    Community Member ariel7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    ...
    11. Hit Points given out by the Reaper trees will have an upper limit based on your character level.

    Character Level 1-5: 50 hit points
    Character Level 6-10: 100 hit points
    Character Level 11-15: 200 hit points
    Character Level 16-20: 400 hit points
    Character Level 21-25: 800 hit points
    Character Level 26+: No limit

    ...
    I wrote a terse reply, but will instead ask why? I feel like it is unnecessary, especially since with the dwindling population base (of players who are actually active and know how to play the game) I have to solo anyway. I just looked as far as the history shows, and I've spent $330 in the last 6 weeks. If you are going to take even more of the fun away, and remove more reasons to continue running the same content over and over...wellmaybe 11 and a half years of supporting the game is enough. I feel like every few months there is some change that is like a punishment to people who have invested more than 100 past lives into the game. We paly on higher skulls to self-regulate the difficulty, it's not like I'm running level 2s on a level 7 bragging about normal
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