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  1. #1
    DDO QA Team Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Multi-Patch/Update Preview: Martial Sphere

    Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

    We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.
    • First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
    • Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
      • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.

    • Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


    Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

    That said, this is the thread for Martial Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

    Grandmaster of Flowers
    This tree needed a lot of love. It was only OK for Monks, and really not-great for everyone else. There's now a fair bit of twist fodder in here, and fewer things require strict centering. Top-tier actives became massively more powerful with the changes, so they were scaled back somewhat to reflect being able to use them much more often.

    • Inner Focus and Wholeness of Spirit now allow for movement during use
    • Wholeness of Spirit has its cooldown reduced to 2 minutes
    • Ki actives (the left column) now scale with the higher of Melee or Ranged Power
    • Ki actives get Stunning bonuses added to their DC calculations
    • Ki actives can now be used under Antimagic, as they are not spells
    • Ki actives are no longer linked in a line
    • Lily Petal and Orchid Blossom now care about levels 26-30 in terms of scaling with character level (was previously capping at 25)
    • Lily Petal now grants 5 Ki instead of costing Ki
    • A Scattering of Petals no longer grants Dodge, and instead grants +100 PRR and MRR for 12 seconds.
      • A Scattering of Petals also reduces enemy Fortification by 200% for 12 seconds, and affected creatures lose immunity to Sneak Attack for that duration.
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a detect the same size as Drifting Lotus (i.e. twice as large).
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a 90 second cooldown.

    • A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.
    • Running with the Wind now adds 2/4/6% Doublestrike to everyone (no more stance requirement)
    • Hail of Blows now adds +3 melee damage in addition to its doublestrike
    • Walking with Waves no longer requires Ocean stance for its Dodge bonus
    • Standing with Stone no longer requires Mountain Stance for its PRR.
    • Dancing with Flame no longer requires Sun Stance for its (w) bonus.
    • Everything is Nothing moves to a 3 minute cooldown, no longer requires charging.
      • Everything is Nothing now has a smaller detect (double the size of Drifting Lotus, but still smaller than its existing version), and hits a maximum of 6 enemies. This is for both balance and performance reasons, as it significantly taxes the game on use & will now be used more frequently.

    • NEW: T2: The Flower's Thorn: +3[w] attack. 6 second cooldown. Does not require Centering. Has cool petal FX. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    • NEW: T5: Devastating Critical (+1 Critical Multiplier on a 19-20) (1 Rank, 1AP)


    Legendary Dreadnought
    This Destiny is very good in its current incarnation. We opened up some of the restrictiveness of the two attacks and fixed an ability that did nothing/wasn't good. For balance vs. other destinies, we did diminish some of their damage vs. Helpless targets only.

    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Power Attack to be active to use.
    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Cleave and Great Cleave (though those feats still reset the cooldown of Momentum Swing).
    • Lay Waste now adds Trip Bonuses to its DC.
    • Unmoveable and Thick Skinned are no longer Action Boosts (they didn't really act like them anyway, they were just using their charge counters). Instead, they are instead simply restricted to their respective cooldowns (which are unchanged).
    • Tactical Genius (which never really worked) is now: Unusual Tactics: Passive: You are a studied master of a wide variety of methods for gaining the upper hand. +2 to the DCs of your Tactical Feats, DC of Rune Arm shots, DC of Breath Weapons, DC of Assasinate, DC of Poisons, and +2 to the Perform, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skills.
    • Combat Brute's Helplessness damage is now 20%.


    Shadowdancer
    This tree needed help. It had a lot of cool things in it that were nearly impossible to use, either because DC calculations were broken or because you needed Shadow Charges, which were hard to get and even harder to keep. Those are gone now. Cooldowns on some things were adjusted to reflect the fact that you don't need to juggle Shadow Charges anymore, but by and large the whole tree should work a lot better now. There are still a few outstanding things that don't shine (Dark Imbuement, looking at you) but in playtests the new version of Shadowdancer has been viable.
    • Shadow Lance now adds Assassinate Bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance now uses full character level in its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance no longer requires Shadow Charges to blind
    • Shadow Lance's Blind is no longer based on chance, but tries to apply on each hit
    • Shadow Lance's damage now scales with 400% of the higher of your Melee and Ranged Power
    • Shadow Lance's damage is now (4d8+18)/(6d8+24)/(8d8+30)
    • Shadow Lance's cooldown is now 30/20/10 seconds.
    • Shrouding Strike/Shot no longer mark the target for Shadow Charges; instead, they apply a stack of Improved Destruction.
    • Shrouding Strike/Shot now have a 6-second cooldown.
    • Consume now adds Assassinate bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Consume now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation
    • Consume no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Consume now has a 3-minute cooldown.
    • Consume should now more consistently pick living enemies to target (and no longer pick doors/barrels/misc non-enemy targets).
    • Shadow Manipulation now adds Assassinate bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Shadow Manipulation now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation.
    • Shadow Manipulation no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Shadow Manipulation now has a 3-minute cooldown.
    • Shadow Manipulation no longer requires Cloak of Shadow.
    • Cloak of Shadows no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Cloak of Shadows no longer requires Shrouding Strike/Shot
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot now has a 12-second cooldown.
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot now has a DC of (10 + Character level + INT or DEX mod + Assassinate bonuses)
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot can now be used while under Antimagic.
    • You can now move while using Executioner's Strike/Shot
    • Dark Imbuement no longer uses Dark Imbuement Charges, and just functions on a cooldown.
    • Dark Imbuement now has a 2-minute cooldown.
    • Dark Imbuement now costs 1AP.
    • Dark Imbuement no longer requires Shadow Form.
    • Dark Imbuement now also grants +15 Melee and Ranged power while active, as well as +2 Sneak Attack Dice while active.
    • Dark Imbuement's Unholy damage now scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power.
    • Dark Imbuements ranged explosion Unholy damage now scales with 200% Ranged Power.
    • Shadow Form no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Shadow Form's tooltip now clarifies that it is considered a Major Form.
    • Shadow Form now costs 1AP.
    • Untouchable now passively grants 3% Dodge and +1 Critical Damage Multiplier on rolls of 19-20.
    • The last Core of Shadowdancer now passively grants +2 to Assassinate DCs.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2
    Community Member Paisheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Grandmaster of Flowers
    • A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.
    Lynnabel had earlier said she would include the old range of W for those centered. So with 3 points it would still be 1.5W Can you confirm this change so a bone is thrown to those still working to stay centered?
    Those not centered would still receive the benefits you are changing to.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paisheng View Post
    Lynnabel had earlier said she would include the old range of W for those centered. So with 3 points it would still be 1.5W Can you confirm this change so a bone is thrown to those still working to stay centered?
    Those not centered would still receive the benefits you are changing to.
    We are not currently planning that change.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  4. #4
    Community Member Paisheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We are not currently planning that change.
    Ty for quick reply -- though I, other monks and some multi-class monks maybe strongly "encouraging" you to consider the option of maintaining the original 1.5W for Dance of Flowers for those centered I know you are making all the destinies more accessible for other builds, but this will help keep flavor and a small nod to those who sacrifice many weapons to be centered.

    2nd question. you mentioned that the left line of abilities of GMOF will now scale with the higher of melee power or ranged power (applause). But will this scale to 200%? It doesn't say the max it will scale too.

  5. #5
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    Is it possible to add handwraps to the list of weapons that work with either Lightning Mace or Anvil of Thunder?

    I really like the change to Tactical Genius, btw.

  6. #6
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    You know what I'm here for. Updating Lamannia as we speak, EiN will be tested fully. Expect "polite, but vitriolic" feedback if crucial information detailing the design weakness (targetting Immune Mobs when there are others that it could have targeted) has been ignored from the Official Thread.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  7. #7
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    NEW: T2: The Flower's Thorn: +3[w] attack. 6 second cooldown. Does not require Centering. Has cool petal FX. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    This attack is unfortunately broken right now. Any movement or break of any animation when triggering it will stop the attack full stop and it simply goes on timer with the petal effects flying. Needs looking into.

    :: edit ::

    Clarification: If moving and activating the attack, you stand still and are unable to move. Considering the Devs removed the standing around with the other abilities in this Tree, I'm surprised a new ability has been forgotten about regarding this already.

    After triggering the attack, if you initiate any other action that alters your animation (moving, jumping, etc) you will break the attack and nothing but petals will scatter around you, and that'll be that. Another 6s timer before it becomes available again.

    :: /edit ::

    EiN looks promising so far. Normal mobs with Deatblock appear to be still targetable. Will be checking normally immune mobs (Red Named) along with normal mobs when I get to an appropriate test site in Lamannia.

    J1NG
    Last edited by J1NG; 07-24-2019 at 11:30 PM. Reason: clarification after further testing
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  8. #8
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Whoot!!!!

    Since no change were made to 2hf, this destiny is still, hands down, the best 2hf destiny. It's just sad it requires the druid's wolf form, silvanus cleric and 5-6 levels of barbarian to make the best out of 2hf.

    All because 2hf is bugged and the barbarian str from rage doesn't scale well enough to hit stuf or get good dc's like..... a paladin.....
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  9. #9
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    A Scattering of Petals no longer grants Dodge, and instead grants +100 PRR and MRR for 12 seconds.
    Total fail. As brought up in the Official Thread (so, a while ago now). MRR needs to be able to breach the cap on Cloth/Light Docent users, otherwise it will get capped at 50 + Whatever increase they have. Scattering of Petals provides other effects listed, but the MRR is totally pointless at this juncture, because without the Cap increase as well (temporarily) the Devs could easily have put 50, or 0, and most wouldn't notice a single difference to it.

    Either give the MRR cap boost that is temporary (by +100) to allow this to be useful, or please make it better another way: 50% Immunity to all Energy type damage for 12s. Because that's basically the same thing you're giving anyway by that +100 MRR. Sure, for those with high MRR you're giving far too much, but then again, for those poor ones without that much MRR, you're not even offering that (50%, because 50 MRR filled cap is only 33.3%)

    Please make appropriate fixes.

    J1NG

    :: edit ::

    Further tests show that the combat log says that we are getting +100 PRR and "+10 Natural Armor Bonus"...
    Last edited by J1NG; 07-25-2019 at 12:21 AM. Reason: Further tests
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  10. #10
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    Default Copying my post from Primal Thread

    RE Shiradi now getting +10 RP per core...

    Wow! Horizon shot, now this! I'm not saying it is a bad addition, I actually like it (anything to move players away from LD). But my concerns with Shadowdancer, especially for ranged rogues, were not really addressed other than a modest +15 boost to RP/MP and +2 SA die with Dark Imbuement. I was already pretty sure I couldn't justify staying in Shadowdancer, but a difference of 36 RP is one final massive nail in that coffin. Goodbye forever, SD. On the plus side, hello Shiradi!

    EDIT: I just spent an hour playing my Mechanic on Lam with the new EDs. SD is not in very good shape, especially for ranged toons. Shrouding Shot/Strike is pointless now, stacks of Improved destruction are not worthwhile with only one stack applied per 6 seconds. 3 AP for one +3W shot that does nothing else, no thanks. Yet at least one AP there is required for all of the goodies above it. Shadow Lance was good for a blind here and there, easy twist though. To be fair, I did not try the new Dark Imbuement yet. The whole ED is just not much improved IMHO, compared to what Shiradi got.

    Shiradi, on the other hand, is alive and very well. +60 RP from cores (vs +24 in SD), +6% doubleshot from Whirling Wrists, the +1 crit mult on 19-20, up to +9 PRR/MRR from In the Weeds, all of the 'scales with 200% Ranged Power' damage improvements, and of course, Hunt's End, a.k.a. Shiradi Adrenaline. My damage output was up considerably from SD, not even considering the monster Hunt's End crits every 24 seconds (text still says 30 sec cooldown BTW). My mechanic will run in Shiradi permanently now, and it's a very easy choice.
    Zanthiss - L30 Mechanic - Cannith
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  11. #11

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    Activation animation for "Consume, Dark Imbuement, Shadow Manipulation, Shadow Lance" is so slow like old blade barrier. Most targets were dead before it proc. Do you remember why people hated old blade barrier?
    Can you speed up those activation animation like new blade barrier with quicken?

    And why does "Execution Strike/Shot" have still have 65% fail condition regardless of DC and hit/miss?

    And Dark Imbuement is still very weak, long cooltime, short duration, low damage.
    Even the tooltip says effective range of melee attacks increases dramatically, it has very short range.
    I wonder why do you call it "Dramatically". It is very like the healing range after epic defensive fight healing range reduction.
    If you want to keep its power level, convert it into passive or give dance of death like cooltime & duration(10 sec duration, 15 sec cooltime).
    Or if you want to keep it short, give more power. Even if you give dance of death like cooltime & duration, it would be still weaker than heroic enhancement : dance of death itself.

    Most of cooltime for Shadowdancer is too long, it limits active combat style a lot. Most could be used again after 4 mass fights, because of so long cooltime(3 mins mostly) & activation time. So, for 3 fights, all was on cooltime.
    Why do other mass AOE instakills have 6sec(sunburst) ~ 30sec(circle of death) ~ 1 min(wail of banshee) cooltime, but, shadowdancer's have 3 mins cooltime?

    My impression for shadowdancer is "SLOW".
    Last edited by draven1; 07-26-2019 at 07:28 AM.
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    Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.”
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  12. #12
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ldschool View Post
    RE Shiradi now getting +10 RP per core...

    Wow! Horizon shot, now this! I'm not saying it is a bad addition, I actually like it (anything to move players away from LD). But my concerns with Shadowdancer, especially for ranged rogues, were not really addressed other than a modest +15 boost to RP/MP and +2 SA die with Dark Imbuement. I was already pretty sure I couldn't justify staying in Shadowdancer, but a difference of 36 RP is one final massive nail in that coffin. Goodbye forever, SD. On the plus side, hello Shiradi!

    EDIT: I just spent an hour playing my Mechanic on Lam with the new EDs. SD is not in very good shape, especially for ranged toons. Shrouding Shot/Strike is pointless now, stacks of Improved destruction are not worthwhile with only one stack applied per 6 seconds. 3 AP for one +3W shot that does nothing else, no thanks. Yet at least one AP there is required for all of the goodies above it. Shadow Lance was good for a blind here and there, easy twist though. To be fair, I did not try the new Dark Imbuement yet. The whole ED is just not much improved IMHO, compared to what Shiradi got.

    Shiradi, on the other hand, is alive and very well. +60 RP from cores (vs +24 in SD), +6% doubleshot from Whirling Wrists, the +1 crit mult on 19-20, up to +9 PRR/MRR from In the Weeds, all of the 'scales with 200% Ranged Power' damage improvements, and of course, Hunt's End, a.k.a. Shiradi Adrenaline. My damage output was up considerably from SD, not even considering the monster Hunt's End crits every 24 seconds (text still says 30 sec cooldown BTW). My mechanic will run in Shiradi permanently now, and it's a very easy choice.
    Shadowdancer needs to give 60 RP in its cores if they want Ranged Builds to look at it.

    On my melee Rangers in Shadowdancer its taking me on average 3 seconds more to kill a Boss Kobold then when I'm in Dreadnought. I need to switch my build around a bit to see what happens in a better DPS build but so far I'm liking what I'm seeing.



    Quote Originally Posted by draven1 View Post
    Activation animation for "Consume, Dark Imbuement, Shadow Manipulation, Shadow Lance" is so slow like old blade barrier.
    I've only played with Dark Imbuement but yes its activation animation is horrible its needs to be much faster, I shouldn't have the spell style animation its used in melee It should just apply the buff and go no real animation at all.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Grandmaster of Flowers
    • Inner Focus and Wholeness of Spirit now allow for movement during use Nice QoL fix
    • Wholeness of Spirit has its cooldown reduced to 2 minutes Very nice
    • Ki actives (the left column) now scale with the higher of Melee or Ranged Power Even better
    • Ki actives get Stunning bonuses added to their DC calculations That's awesome
    • Ki actives can now be used under Antimagic, as they are not spells Ok
    • Ki actives are no longer linked in a line Ok
    • Lily Petal and Orchid Blossom now care about levels 26-30 in terms of scaling with character level (was previously capping at 25) Ok
    • Lily Petal now grants 5 Ki instead of costing Ki Ok
    • A Scattering of Petals no longer grants Dodge, and instead grants +100 PRR and MRR for 12 seconds.
      • A Scattering of Petals also reduces enemy Fortification by 200% for 12 seconds, and affected creatures lose immunity to Sneak Attack for that duration.
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a detect the same size as Drifting Lotus (i.e. twice as large).
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a 90 second cooldown.
      Usefulness been discussed elsewhere, likely won't be using myself
    • A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered. Below
    • Running with the Wind now adds 2/4/6% Doublestrike to everyone (no more stance requirement)
    • Hail of Blows now adds +3 melee damage in addition to its doublestrike These four abilities are fine, they make nice twists
    • Walking with Waves no longer requires Ocean stance for its Dodge bonus
    • Standing with Stone no longer requires Mountain Stance for its PRR.
    • Dancing with Flame no longer requires Sun Stance for its (w) bonus. Solid, should make up for the DoF comment below. For those in GMoF, anyway
    • Everything is Nothing moves to a 3 minute cooldown, no longer requires charging.
      • Everything is Nothing now has a smaller detect (double the size of Drifting Lotus, but still smaller than its existing version), and hits a maximum of 6 enemies. This is for both balance and performance reasons, as it significantly taxes the game on use & will now be used more frequently.
      6 targets I can work with, now that the cooldown is shorter and there's no stupid charge-up
    • NEW: T2: The Flower's Thorn: +3[w] attack. 6 second cooldown. Does not require Centering. Has cool petal FX. (1 Rank, 1AP) Below
    • NEW: T5: Devastating Critical (+1 Critical Multiplier on a 19-20) (1 Rank, 1AP) Cool
    Any idea on when we can expect this update? Or the new raid? I've been waiting for the new raid to drop, along with these changes, as I have vacation upcoming to prepare for.

    What about turning Flower's Thorn into an actual Monk attack? With Light/Dark/Void flags from a multiselector or something? Figured it'd be nice to have those monks in GMoF being granted additional mastery over their finishing moves by opening up more options. Maybe require a certain amount of monk levels for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paisheng View Post
    Lynnabel had earlier said she would include the old range of W for those centered. So with 3 points it would still be 1.5W Can you confirm this change so a bone is thrown to those still working to stay centered?
    Those not centered would still receive the benefits you are changing to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    We are not currently planning that change.
    Disappointing, but relatively insignificant.

    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    (Flower's Thorn) is unfortunately broken right now. Any movement or break of any animation when triggering it will stop the attack full stop and it simply goes on timer with the petal effects flying. Needs looking into.

    :: edit ::

    Clarification: If moving and activating the attack, you stand still and are unable to move. Considering the Devs removed the standing around with the other abilities in this Tree, I'm surprised a new ability has been forgotten about regarding this already.

    After triggering the attack, if you initiate any other action that alters your animation (moving, jumping, etc) you will break the attack and nothing but petals will scatter around you, and that'll be that. Another 6s timer before it becomes available again.

    :: /edit ::

    EiN looks promising so far. Normal mobs with Deatblock appear to be still targetable. Will be checking normally immune mobs (Red Named) along with normal mobs when I get to an appropriate test site in Lamannia.

    J1NG
    Appreciate your testing as I cannot get into Lammania myself.

  14. #14
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Still very meh on these changes imo.

    My big issue is that the dev team simply decided that to increase power (to compete with LD) to just copy/paste devastating critical.

    Come on guys. There’s seriously a lot more ways you could have increased power to better tailor each ED. Rogues who use SD? They don’t want a 19-20 crit multi. They want 200-250% MP scaling with current SA dmg. Monks? They want mrr cap increases.

    For all the talk of wanting to make each ED have it’s own feel, this falls remarkably flat.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

    We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.
    • First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
    • Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
      • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.

    • Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


    Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

    That said, this is the thread for Martial Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

    Grandmaster of Flowers
    This tree needed a lot of love. It was only OK for Monks, and really not-great for everyone else. There's now a fair bit of twist fodder in here, and fewer things require strict centering. Top-tier actives became massively more powerful with the changes, so they were scaled back somewhat to reflect being able to use them much more often.

    • Inner Focus and Wholeness of Spirit now allow for movement during use
    • Wholeness of Spirit has its cooldown reduced to 2 minutes
    • Ki actives (the left column) now scale with the higher of Melee or Ranged Power
    • Ki actives get Stunning bonuses added to their DC calculations
    • Ki actives can now be used under Antimagic, as they are not spells
    • Ki actives are no longer linked in a line
    • Lily Petal and Orchid Blossom now care about levels 26-30 in terms of scaling with character level (was previously capping at 25)
    • Lily Petal now grants 5 Ki instead of costing Ki
    • A Scattering of Petals no longer grants Dodge, and instead grants +100 PRR and MRR for 12 seconds.
      • A Scattering of Petals also reduces enemy Fortification by 200% for 12 seconds, and affected creatures lose immunity to Sneak Attack for that duration.
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a detect the same size as Drifting Lotus (i.e. twice as large).
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a 90 second cooldown.

    • A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.
    • Running with the Wind now adds 2/4/6% Doublestrike to everyone (no more stance requirement)
    • Hail of Blows now adds +3 melee damage in addition to its doublestrike
    • Walking with Waves no longer requires Ocean stance for its Dodge bonus
    • Standing with Stone no longer requires Mountain Stance for its PRR.
    • Dancing with Flame no longer requires Sun Stance for its (w) bonus.
    • Everything is Nothing moves to a 3 minute cooldown, no longer requires charging.
      • Everything is Nothing now has a smaller detect (double the size of Drifting Lotus, but still smaller than its existing version), and hits a maximum of 6 enemies. This is for both balance and performance reasons, as it significantly taxes the game on use & will now be used more frequently.

    • NEW: T2: The Flower's Thorn: +3[w] attack. 6 second cooldown. Does not require Centering. Has cool petal FX. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    • NEW: T5: Devastating Critical (+1 Critical Multiplier on a 19-20) (1 Rank, 1AP)


    Legendary Dreadnought
    This Destiny is very good in its current incarnation. We opened up some of the restrictiveness of the two attacks and fixed an ability that did nothing/wasn't good. For balance vs. other destinies, we did diminish some of their damage vs. Helpless targets only.

    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Power Attack to be active to use.
    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Cleave and Great Cleave (though those feats still reset the cooldown of Momentum Swing).
    • Lay Waste now adds Trip Bonuses to its DC.
    • Unmoveable and Thick Skinned are no longer Action Boosts (they didn't really act like them anyway, they were just using their charge counters). Instead, they are instead simply restricted to their respective cooldowns (which are unchanged).
    • Tactical Genius (which never really worked) is now: Unusual Tactics: Passive: You are a studied master of a wide variety of methods for gaining the upper hand. +2 to the DCs of your Tactical Feats, DC of Rune Arm shots, DC of Breath Weapons, DC of Assasinate, DC of Poisons, and +2 to the Perform, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skills.
    • Combat Brute's Helplessness damage is now 20%.


    Shadowdancer
    This tree needed help. It had a lot of cool things in it that were nearly impossible to use, either because DC calculations were broken or because you needed Shadow Charges, which were hard to get and even harder to keep. Those are gone now. Cooldowns on some things were adjusted to reflect the fact that you don't need to juggle Shadow Charges anymore, but by and large the whole tree should work a lot better now. There are still a few outstanding things that don't shine (Dark Imbuement, looking at you) but in playtests the new version of Shadowdancer has been viable.
    • Shadow Lance now adds Assassinate Bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance now uses full character level in its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance no longer requires Shadow Charges to blind
    • Shadow Lance's Blind is no longer based on chance, but tries to apply on each hit
    • Shadow Lance's damage now scales with 400% of the higher of your Melee and Ranged Power
    • Shadow Lance's damage is now (4d8+18)/(6d8+24)/(8d8+30)
    • Shadow Lance's cooldown is now 30/20/10 seconds.
    • Shrouding Strike/Shot no longer mark the target for Shadow Charges; instead, they apply a stack of Improved Destruction.
    • Shrouding Strike/Shot now have a 6-second cooldown.
    • Consume now adds Assassinate bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Consume now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation
    • Consume no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Consume now has a 3-minute cooldown.
    • Consume should now more consistently pick living enemies to target (and no longer pick doors/barrels/misc non-enemy targets).
    • Shadow Manipulation now adds Assassinate bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Shadow Manipulation now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation.
    • Shadow Manipulation no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Shadow Manipulation now has a 3-minute cooldown.
    • Shadow Manipulation no longer requires Cloak of Shadow.
    • Cloak of Shadows no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Cloak of Shadows no longer requires Shrouding Strike/Shot
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot now has a 12-second cooldown.
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot now has a DC of (10 + Character level + INT or DEX mod + Assassinate bonuses)
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot can now be used while under Antimagic.
    • You can now move while using Executioner's Strike/Shot
    • Dark Imbuement no longer uses Dark Imbuement Charges, and just functions on a cooldown.
    • Dark Imbuement now has a 2-minute cooldown.
    • Dark Imbuement now costs 1AP.
    • Dark Imbuement no longer requires Shadow Form.
    • Dark Imbuement now also grants +15 Melee and Ranged power while active, as well as +2 Sneak Attack Dice while active.
    • Dark Imbuement's Unholy damage now scales with 200% Melee or Ranged Power.
    • Dark Imbuements ranged explosion Unholy damage now scales with 200% Ranged Power.
    • Shadow Form no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Shadow Form's tooltip now clarifies that it is considered a Major Form.
    • Shadow Form now costs 1AP.
    • Untouchable now passively grants 3% Dodge and +1 Critical Damage Multiplier on rolls of 19-20.
    • The last Core of Shadowdancer now passively grants +2 to Assassinate DCs.
    Why does the player have to spend 3 AP to get 1W for DoF? I think the amount of points we get in the destinies needs to be addressed, as it’s not just the martial sphere. All of the stat increases are 2 points, which is literally half of what is available to us. Add in the epic moment (which should always be worth taking and y’all are working hard to make them useful and unique) and one tier 1 ability as well as the new extra crit passive for 19-20 the martial trees are getting (under different names) and we have maybe 1-2 abilities that we can make a choice on. This fact is somewhat helped by not linking previous things in a line, but it is still quite prominent.

    I feel like 3 tiers in 5+ abilities in the tree coupled with needing 2 points per stat increase really cripple GMoF in particular but again all trees are starved. I think this needs to be addressed at least here in GMoF (which has always kind of been a gimmick destiny even for monks). I did see that someone suggested the stat increases should only cost 1 AP in the destinies instead of just increasing the points we currently get.

    Besides that, loving the changes! All of the destinies are a lot closer and a lot of fixes were made to make more viable options and the player can actually change a destiny and not be gimp, but almost feel like a new toon which is important given the grind of ETRs and the new PL’s we have access to when this goes live. Thanks!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Shadowdancer needs to give 60 RP in its cores if they want Ranged Builds to look at it.

    On my melee Rangers in Shadowdancer its taking me on average 3 seconds more to kill a Boss Kobold then when I'm in Dreadnought. I need to switch my build around a bit to see what happens in a better DPS build but so far I'm liking what I'm seeing.
    That's kinda what I was getting at, but even that is not a great solution. I did ask why there was 24 RP cap on EDs in the last martial preview thread, and pointed out that the 12 RP diff between Shiradi/SD and LD was not nearly large enough to keep players out of LD. it seems they rethought that but only for Shiradi. I am one of the ranged that was playing an ED for flavor even if it wasn't the uber choice. I found SD and Shiradi to be the most fun, and being a rogue I tend towards SD with its defenses. IMO, the choice between those two has now been made for me. I believe that this pass will significantly decrease the number of players in SD. And it didn't have to be this way, if SD were only given the same loving attention that Shiradi received. I made many suggestions in the preview thread that I thought would help, more interesting ways to help SD, many involving very roguey/SD things, like adding SA die, cranking up SA dmg, add auto-sneak attack procs to existing Strike/Shots, some sneak immunity removal like Assassin's Trick. I won't rehash all of that here. The story seems to be that there wasn't enough time to overhaul the destiny. SD is fundamentally the most interesting ED to me. There are so many fun changes that could be made. Right now I'm just sad for SD, because there probably won't be another ED pass for a long time.

    Devs, you might as well remove the selector for Shrouding Strike/Shot (now a ridiculous option for 3AP) and Executioner's Strike/Shot and make it easier for the melees, there is no reason to pretend that ranged will run here anymore.
    Last edited by 0ldschool; 07-25-2019 at 11:40 AM.
    Zanthiss - L30 Mechanic - Cannith
    Zamsil - L10 TWF dagger assassin, doesn't know what he's doing yet

    I've got a Dungeon Master's Guide... I've got 12 sided die...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Total fail. As brought up in the Official Thread (so, a while ago now). MRR needs to be able to breach the cap on Cloth/Light Docent users, otherwise it will get capped at 50 + Whatever increase they have. Scattering of Petals provides other effects listed, but the MRR is totally pointless at this juncture, because without the Cap increase as well (temporarily) the Devs could easily have put 50, or 0, and most wouldn't notice a single difference to it.

    Either give the MRR cap boost that is temporary (by +100) to allow this to be useful, or please make it better another way: 50% Immunity to all Energy type damage for 12s. Because that's basically the same thing you're giving anyway by that +100 MRR. Sure, for those with high MRR you're giving far too much, but then again, for those poor ones without that much MRR, you're not even offering that (50%, because 50 MRR filled cap is only 33.3%)
    This sounds exactly like the Dodge cap problem that is not being recognized. Untouchable in SD should be +3% to the Dodge cap as well, or there's not any value there. We now have many Dodge +21% items in Sharn. Getting to Dodge 30% is quite simple for a rogue. There are very few ways to actually increase the cap in any significant way without diving into Acrobat. Shouldn't a tier 5 ED ability that gives 3% dodge also increase the cap? If it doesn't, it's worthless. Shouldn't SD have a way to increase the Dodge cap like the heroic Acrobat tree, since it's strength is defenses? There is some kind of mental block stopping the recognition that pumping up gear bonuses to abilities also require ways to increase caps on those abilities to make any extra bonuses actually have value.
    Zanthiss - L30 Mechanic - Cannith
    Zamsil - L10 TWF dagger assassin, doesn't know what he's doing yet

    I've got a Dungeon Master's Guide... I've got 12 sided die...

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ldschool View Post
    This sounds exactly like the Dodge cap problem that is not being recognized. Untouchable in SD should be +3% to the Dodge cap as well, or there's not any value there. We now have many Dodge +21% items in Sharn. Getting to Dodge 30% is quite simple for a rogue. There are very few ways to actually increase the cap in any significant way without diving into Acrobat. Shouldn't a tier 5 ED ability that gives 3% dodge also increase the cap? If it doesn't, it's worthless. Shouldn't SD have a way to increase the Dodge cap like the heroic Acrobat tree, since it's strength is defenses? There is some kind of mental block stopping the recognition that pumping up gear bonuses to abilities also require ways to increase caps on those abilities to make any extra bonuses actually have value.
    If that was how we intended to balance it, we wouldn't have a Dodge cap at all. (Or MRR.)

    But we do! And we're very specific about where and why we choose to raise it.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  19. #19
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    Default Running with the Wind

    Running with the Wind now adds 2/4/6% Doublestrike>
    it seems to me that it does not work properly, increased the doublestrike value by 2 only

  20. #20

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    Tactical Genius requires Combat Expertise on Lamannia, but that detail is not included in the release notes. Is CE required or not?
    Kobeyashi | Ying

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