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  1. #1
    DDO QA Team Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Multi-Patch/Update Preview: Divine Sphere

    Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

    We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.
    • First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
    • Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
      • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.

    • Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


    Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

    That said, this is the thread for Divine Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

    Unyielding Sentinel
    This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.

    • Commanding Presence's hate triples to 150/300/450%
    • Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 60% per stack (300% at full stacks, was 100%)
    • Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
    • Unyielding Sentinel's Renewal ability now properly gets its first tick of healing, at the time of casting.
    • Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
    • Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
    • Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
    • You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
    • Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
    • NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    • NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)


    Exalted Angel
    This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.
    • Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).
    • Exalted Angel's Soundburst SLA now has targeting parameters matching the original spell.
    • Exalted Angel's Mass Cure Moderate Wounds SLA can now be targeted on Undead.
    • Exalted Angel's Ascendance transformation now has somewhat less blinding VFX.
    • Exalted Angel's Endless Faith no longer requires Radiant Power and/or Healing Power.


    Divine Crusader:
    This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.

    • Divine Crusader's Aura of Purification should now work on more than one target at a time.
    • Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
    • Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
    • No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
    • Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
    • Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
    • Strike Down can now be used while moving.
    • Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
    • Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
    • Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
    • Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
    • Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
    • Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
    • Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
    • Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
    • Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
    • Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
    • Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
    • Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot is now Melee and Ranged Power (+1 per stack) and Sacred-Typed.
    • NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
    • NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2
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    I cut a couple that you guys already addressed
    Quote Originally Posted by peng View Post
    I mostly like the changes, but...

    Sentinel:
    • Renewal is a t3. I don't think it needs to be self-only as a twist when we have cocoon at t1
    • Renewal doesn't stack with and overwrites sustaining song. I'm pretty sure there are other hp regen effects that they also don't stack with
    • Undying vanguard should be usable more than once per rest.


    Exalted:
    • DCs don't scale well
    • Change angelic presence core to boost wis in addition to cha
    • Getting rid of weird charge up mechanics, but keeping it for rebuke foe, excoriate, and be at peace?
    • Some spells/slas incorrectly clearing or not building stacks of blood and radiance
    • If you're changing reborn in light to be once per rest, then why do you need a long cooldown?

  3. #3
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    • Exalted Angel's Endless Faith no longer requires Radiant Power and/or Healing Power.
    Yes! This is an awesome change. It's bad when you want to go into the EA destiny as a character that doesn't use light spellpower and be forced to spend 3 AP to get this.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
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    The tank abilities Divine Righteousness (+200% sacred threat) from Sacred Defender, and Intolerant Blows (+200% sacred threat) from Unyielding Sentinel need to be adjusted since the threat changes negate these abilities. Also the costs for some of the abilities on the Unyielding Sentinel tree are too high and should be reduced to 1 point per rank instead of 2 so that there is more utilization of the tree instead of the straight tanking abilities.

  5. #5
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    The changes you did make to EA after our feedback are nice and, again, we all understand the need to change Reborn. It would have been nice, however, to see a more comprehensive overhaul of this destiny which would have left it in a better place.
    Griglok (main)- Cleric (TRing), Duelcore- Wiz 18/FvS 2, Embezzler- Rogue, Fiergen- Ftr 8/Rgr 6/Mnk 6, Greyhead- monk, Havegun- Ftr 2/Pal 18, Jayberwocky- Ftr 8/Mnk 12, Laciolux- Clr 16/FvS 4, Prototech- Artificer, Rendorc- Barbarian, Seasharp- Bard
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  6. #6

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    US also needs to give more AC per core, In addition to the selectable bonus. It is the only tank tree. More AC, PRR and MRR.

  7. #7
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
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    Another thing that needs to be fixed is mobs having the ability to knock a tank down which goes against the design of the capstone of the Epic Tank tree. "Steadfast: Passive bonuses: +2 attack, +1 bonus to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves. You cannot be knocked down while Standing Against the Tide." Without such a fix in place Standing Against the Tide still remains worthless from a tanking perspective. The text says 'You cannot be knocked down while Standing Against the Tide', so there should be no counter against it.
    Last edited by Alcides; 07-24-2019 at 10:58 PM.
    Grundable Slamhammer (R10 Tank) - Argonnessen

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    Another thing that needs to be fixed is mobs having the ability to knock a tank down which goes against the design of the capstone of the Epic Tank tree. "Steadfast: Passive bonuses: +2 attack, +1 bonus to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves. You cannot be knocked down while Standing Against the Tide." Without such a fix in place Standing Against the Tide still remains worthless from a tanking perspective. The text says 'You cannot be knocked down while Standing Against the Tide', so there should be no counter against it.
    As I think I said at one point elsewhere, there's a threefold problem:
    1) Certain mobs (mostly Raid bosses with visual tells) are intended to bypass knockdown immunity. The situations where this is intended are not especially clear; I am working with Content to call out this bypass in the effect tool tips where possible, but that hasn't happened yet.

    2) As a result, things that claim to grant knockdown immunity should say "certain powerful enemies can bypass this", the way Spawn Screen does for undead raising.

    3) For all other (non-powerful-boss) instances where knockdown is hitting a knockdown-immune player, the problem is not Stand Against The Tide - its working 100% correctly - the issue is the individual knockdown effect. When you run into those, file a bug report with the dungeon and monster name and we can look into fixing it.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  9. #9
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    As I think I said at one point elsewhere, there's a threefold problem:
    1) Certain mobs (mostly Raid bosses with visual tells) are intended to bypass knockdown immunity. The situations where this is intended are not especially clear; I am working with Content to call out this bypass in the effect tool tips where possible, but that hasn't happened yet.
    I think better design would be these types of knockdowns to be DC based and Stand Against the Tide provide a bonus to the check against the DC. You could also allow the check to not fail on a 1 while using Stand Against the Tide. Amongst the R10 tanks I know, we don't bother with stuff that doesn't work and will instead opt for safer options namely Vigor of Battle stance since healing amp and hit points increase survivability in all situations, and other stuff you can time your blocking to avoid. It may not be optimal in all situations but it does get tanks by 99% of the time. The remaining 1% is bad luck.

    Another option would be to have a blocking window where a block can get you out these types of knockdowns if the timing is near perfect. No continuous blocking or hammering the block key, just a well time block.
    Last edited by Alcides; 07-24-2019 at 11:29 PM.
    Grundable Slamhammer (R10 Tank) - Argonnessen

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    Another option would be to have a blocking window where a block can get you out these types of knockdowns if the timing is near perfect. No continuous blocking or hammering the block key, just a well time block.
    Several of the ones I was talking about (that bypass Knockdown Immunity intentionally) have this already; it even works with continuous blocking.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  11. #11
    Community Member BigSlugger's Avatar
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    Default Ancient Blessings past life

    The new divine past life feat, Ancient Blessings, is only giving +3 Positive/Negative/Repair amp for having the stance active while I seem to remember a post stating that it would give +5 to each. Three amp per stack seems rather weak.

  12. #12
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    [*]Divine Crusader's Aura of Purification should now work on more than one target at a time.
    [*]Strike Down can now be used while moving.
    Amazing!
    Thanks for this!
    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    ...Raiding is pointless because gear will eventually be replaced by better gear. Past lives are forever and thus are the only character improvement that is worth the trouble of acquiring...
    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    ...99 million combinations of characters and only 2 grouping options...

  13. #13
    Community Member Lagin's Avatar
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    I like this.
    US, the triple bump to hate will really help. Adding intim would be even better.
    In DC, I would really like to see Smite the Wicked have the vorpal req changed to a confirmed crit. Book of War T4 make it any weapon of choice.

    Nice changes



  14. #14
    Community Member Ballrus's Avatar
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    Also, is possible to allow Quicken on Consecration? (With spell cost)

    Thanks in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    ...Raiding is pointless because gear will eventually be replaced by better gear. Past lives are forever and thus are the only character improvement that is worth the trouble of acquiring...
    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    ...99 million combinations of characters and only 2 grouping options...

  15. #15
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    Will the bug where the purification debuff from divine crusader sometimes ends up on allies be fixed?

    I've noticed when I'm running with a Divine crusader sometimes their aura will start stacking onto me, usually no more than 1 or 2 stacks but it's crazy annoying.

  16. #16
    Community Member Baahb3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuulified View Post
    US also needs to give more AC per core, In addition to the selectable bonus. It is the only tank tree. More AC, PRR and MRR.
    As a tank, more AC/PRR/MRR is always welcome but with the diminishing returns of these 3 stats, I don't think adding more would help us do our job better. Instead, help tanks with the area they sacrifice the most in through gear, To Hit.

    I would be ecstatic if they added 2% to hit on each core of US. Hell, even 1% would be nice. Trying to slot Accuracy and its Insightful/Quality options is near impossible in tank gear set up. All of these additional Hate bumps to attacks is nice, but if you are just getting grazing hits, it does not help that much.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Gemini-Dragon357's Avatar
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    As a couple others mentioned, Exalted Angel isn't in a great place compared to other destinies after this pass. The DCs on the SLAs are too low to be useful at cap. All of the destinies have had this problem for awhile now, the formulas don't take spell DC bonuses into consideration. It looks like most of the SLAs in other destinies have received an upgrade an include spell DC bonuses, but not Exalted Angel.

    The T6 Sunbolt SLA is a reflex save. In its current state at cap isn't not a worthy T6 ability. Many monsters at cap currently have evasion/improved evasion. There is no reasonable way to get the SLA's DC high enough to make it work constantly.

    Soundburst and Divine Wrath SLAs have similar issues. Soundburst is the only spell Divines have to render monsters helpless and you have to max Wis/Cha at the expense of everything else just to make the SLA somewhat useful.

    It would be better, I think, to keep the Epic Destiny SLA formula constant between trees and balance the SLA by altering its effects, increasing SP cost, or moving the SLA higher up in the tree and not reducing the DC. Possibly by doubling Sunbolt's SP cost and moving Soundburst to T5.

    Playing a Light spell caster was my favorite build many years ago. Itemization and game changes over the years really killed the build (reaper was harsh on all spellpower casters). I can't remember the last time I saw one in game. Hopefully with the reducing the spell damage penalty in reaper more people will play non-DC casters, but I really don't see light casters making a comeback.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini-Dragon357 View Post
    As a couple others mentioned, Exalted Angel isn't in a great place compared to other destinies after this pass. The DCs on the SLAs are too low to be useful at cap. All of the destinies have had this problem for awhile now, the formulas don't take spell DC bonuses into consideration. It looks like most of the SLAs in other destinies have received an upgrade an include spell DC bonuses, but not Exalted Angel.

    The T6 Sunbolt SLA is a reflex save. In its current state at cap isn't not a worthy T6 ability. Many monsters at cap currently have evasion/improved evasion. There is no reasonable way to get the SLA's DC high enough to make it work constantly.

    Soundburst and Divine Wrath SLAs have similar issues. Soundburst is the only spell Divines have to render monsters helpless and you have to max Wis/Cha at the expense of everything else just to make the SLA somewhat useful.

    It would be better, I think, to keep the Epic Destiny SLA formula constant between trees and balance the SLA by altering its effects, increasing SP cost, or moving the SLA higher up in the tree and not reducing the DC. Possibly by doubling Sunbolt's SP cost and moving Soundburst to T5.

    Playing a Light spell caster was my favorite build many years ago. Itemization and game changes over the years really killed the build (reaper was harsh on all spellpower casters). I can't remember the last time I saw one in game. Hopefully with the reducing the spell damage penalty in reaper more people will play non-DC casters, but I really don't see light casters making a comeback.
    The issue with these DCs is something we know about, but cannot fix for this Update. We do not currently have an ETA for this fix.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    The issue with these DCs is something we know about, but cannot fix for this Update. We do not currently have an ETA for this fix.
    Just throwing this out there, because you guys said in the Arcane thread that straight number fixes were easier: Could you change the DC of the EA abilities to use twice your character level instead of just character level? If I'm reading the DC caster spreadsheet right, that should bring the DC's for these abilities within about 5 of what they would normally be as spells at cap.

  20. #20
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    The issue with these DCs is something we know about, but cannot fix for this Update. We do not currently have an ETA for this fix.
    Is it really that difficult to simply add evocation bonuses to the SLA's? You didn't seem to have much of an issue with Draconic.
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