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  1. #1
    Founder Potvin's Avatar
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    Default Returning (Effectively New Player) need a viable build

    Hi all,

    I'm level 6 rogue, I currently was following Hassan's assassin build, but I'm told in game now that it is fairly dated, and that the only viable builds in today's game for rogues are either

    - heavy repeater
    - quarterstaff/acrobat

    If this is accurate, then I would really appreciate it if someone could link me to a good current repeater build that a raw new player (havent played in like 10 years) could implement/follow....

    Also, what would I need to reroll my current guy? He's currently specced like an assassin, which I'm told is sadly a mistake.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Potvin; 07-13-2019 at 12:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member kamimitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potvin View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm level 6 rogue, I currently was following Hassan's assassin build, but I'm told in game now that it is fairly dated, and that the only viable builds in today's game for rogues are either

    - heavy repeater
    - quarterstaff/acrobat

    If this is accurate, then I would really appreciate it if someone could link me to a good current repeater build that a raw new player (havent played in like 10 years) could implement/follow....

    Also, what would I need to reroll my current guy? He's currently specced like an assassin, which I'm told is sadly a mistake.

    Thanks!
    Not sure where you might have gotten that impression (someone is giving you bad intel), but a TWF vistani assassin rogue is perfectly viable (as are a number of other interpretations). Many of us have specc'd somewhat away from high assassinate DCs in favor of overall DPS. A high 70s, low 80s assassinate DC is plenty at endgame if you pick your targets appropriately (look for mobs with lower fort saves... constructs, some casters, etc.). Is the Inquisitive flavor of the month pretty badass? Sure. Does it mean everything else is ****? Absolutely not. And as for acrobat, my q-staff acrobat pales in comparison to my 'main' rogue (which is an assassin) due to past lives, gear, etc. He's not even in the same league.

    edit: looks like you're on Ghallanda. I'm mostly on mornings (timezone differences and whatnot), but if you see me (I'll be on Shizmonkey), hit me up and I'll be happy to discuss builds with you, recommend gear, etc. I've got a huge soft spot for rogues, and assassins in particular, and I'd like to think I've got a pretty good bead on building and playing them.
    Last edited by kamimitsu; 07-14-2019 at 06:57 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potvin View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm level 6 rogue, I currently was following Hassan's assassin build, but I'm told in game now that it is fairly dated, and that the only viable builds in today's game for rogues are either

    - heavy repeater
    - quarterstaff/acrobat

    If this is accurate, then I would really appreciate it if someone could link me to a good current repeater build that a raw new player (havent played in like 10 years) could implement/follow....

    Also, what would I need to reroll my current guy? He's currently specced like an assassin, which I'm told is sadly a mistake.

    Thanks!
    The two suggestion made to you are arguably the worst rogue builds nowadays.

    Most viable end game rogue builds (opinionated ofc):

    Inquisitor if you have it...12,13,15 or 18 rogue is probably all you want no need to go pure as you will be taking inquisitor capstone. Would suggest 12 Ro/6 DWS/ 2 Arti, 13Ro/6 DWS/1 Barb, 15R/4 Arti/ 1 barb or fighter or 18 Ro/2 Arty.

    Assassin 20R or Vistani Assassin if you have.

    Great Xbow Mech Endless fuselage. 12Rogue/4 Arty/4 Fighter.

    Probably most viable in that order.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamimitsu View Post
    Not sure where you might have gotten that impression (someone is giving you bad intel), but a TWF vistani assassin rogue is perfectly viable (as are a number of other interpretations). Many of us have specc'd somewhat away from high assassinate DCs in favor of overall DPS. A high 70s, low 80s assassinate DC is plenty at endgame if you pick your targets appropriately (look for mobs with lower fort saves... constructs, some casters, etc.). Is the Inquisitive flavor of the month pretty badass? Sure. Does it mean everything else is ****? Absolutely not. And as for acrobat, my q-staff acrobat pales in comparison to my 'main' rogue (which is an assassin) due to past lives, gear, etc. He's not even in the same league.

    edit: looks like you're on Ghallanda. I'm mostly on mornings (timezone differences and whatnot), but if you see me (I'll be on Shizmonkey), hit me up and I'll be happy to discuss builds with you, recommend gear, etc. I've got a huge soft spot for rogues, and assassins in particular, and I'd like to think I've got a pretty good bead on building and playing them.

    And heavy repeaters are the worst way to go on a rogue. Non-repeaters with inquisitor or GXbow without inquisitor both crush repeaters past level 10-12 on a rogue.

  5. #5
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    And heavy repeaters are the worst way to go on a rogue. Non-repeaters with inquisitor or GXbow without inquisitor both crush repeaters past level 10-12 on a rogue.
    just as a note here. repeaters still work........ but both builds are much more damage. but if you like repeaters. it will work for you



    just as a note, when you read things on the forums..... take them with a grain of salt. people tend to be all or nothing.... when multiple things will work
    Last edited by Hobgoblin; 07-14-2019 at 01:45 PM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potvin View Post
    (havent played in like 10 years)
    Welcome back!

    Quote Originally Posted by Potvin View Post
    Also, what would I need to reroll my current guy? He's currently specced like an assassin, which I'm told is sadly a mistake.
    Not necessarily a mistake, depending how you feel about Kamimitsu's offer/advice (above). But if you decide to go Ranged, then, looking at Hassan's Assassin, a reroll will be the right move - Mech's are Int-based.

    If the stats are workable and all you need are Feat changes, there's Fred...


    To respec, you could use the Lesser Heart of Wood that all characters get, but most vets would recommend you save that for a really BAD mistake, the type you suddenly realize on a later life when a re-roll just is not acceptable. (For a 1st life, Level 6 is fast enough in the long run.)

    Quote Originally Posted by kamimitsu View Post
    (someone is giving you bad intel)...
    Pretty much - assassins did get nerfed a while ago, so they are not longer the magical FotM killing machines of legend that they once were, but they can still work - just not like they used to. The people you spoke with are probably vets who base everything off of "the best possible in the game atm, or ever in their memory" - and you can fall somewhere below that and still be just fine.


    <stands, strikes a dramatic pose, his cloak flowing>

    Once, vast herds of assassins covered the plains... now... they are... no more.

    <sheds one crystal tear, light fades to black>

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    just as a note here. repeaters still work........ but both builds are much more damage. but if you like repeaters. it will work for you
    Exactly.

    Now, understand that Repeaters are ~best~ w/ Artificer (pure or multi), which is a premium class - even VIP don't get it for free. The Rogue Mechanic tree gives it some love, but no comparison to Arti enhancement trees. But a non-Arti Repeater can still be solid and a lot of fun.


    The Inquisitive tree is also a Premium feature - if you did not/will not spend RL cash on the new Sharn expansion pack, it's not an option (yet - probably later for DDO Points).



    Here's the breakdown simplified...

    A repeater spams any special effects that you have, so Vorpal, Keen (until Improved Crit, cuz they don't stack), "of Deception", "of Feeding/Draining", or "of Tendon Slice" (altho' you can also get that on gloves/etc.) all rain down on your targets, along w/ some good damage.

    Otoh, a Great Crossbow does the same effects but at a slower rate, but adds an innate Knockdown on a natural 20, so comes w/ its own (minor) Crowd Control feature. The DPS/shot is MUCH higher, but fire rate is slower.

    So, at low Heroic levels, the spam effect of a good(!) Repeater will outshine an identically specced Great Crossbow (GXB). All you really need is the weapon itself, and it will carry the day.

    The change comes as the Rogue Mech enhancements take over, b/c they give more love to "non-repeating crossbows", and GXB's in particular. By mid-heroics, GXB's are superior, and by end-heroics the clear winner (if not by a huge margin). A Repeater will still work, and you'll still be contributing and finishing quests on Elite (or low Reaper, w/ proper gear), you just won't be winning many kill-count contests vs/ an equally well-geared GXB build.

    If this is accurate, then I would really appreciate it if someone could link me to a good current repeater build....
    First, see what Kam' has to say. If(?) you decide to go Ranged, a Rogue Mech GXB is awesome.

    If, otoh, you want to buck the system b/c you just loooove you some thwack-thwack-thwack of Repeaters, AND you have Artificer - many options.

    If, otooh, you are F2P and want a Repeater - a pure Rogue can work, or a Rogue/multi (to get some love from Fighter). I have a F2P Repeater build I'm working on, but haven't run it to cap yet, so am hesitant to roll it out - but if that's the direction you want to roll, happy to trot it out and see how it's received (for what it is - a F2P, non-Arti repeater).

    Oh - and nothing wrong w/ a Rogue quarterstaff build. Multi'ing w/ Monk might be better, and it's not uber, but it's solid. Problem is finding a good named quarterstaff - and that staves wear and break quickly. You can repair them, but that doesn't help in-quest. :/


    For the rest, here's a start - look at "Rogues", and/or do a page Search for "repeater". GL!

    o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5759362

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    just as a note here. repeaters still work........ but both builds are much more damage. but if you like repeaters. it will work for you



    just as a note, when you read things on the forums..... take them with a grain of salt. people tend to be all or nothing.... when multiple things will work
    I never said it wouldn’t work. I specifically said it’s the worst way to go on a rogue past 10-12.

  8. #8
    Founder Potvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamimitsu View Post
    Not sure where you might have gotten that impression (someone is giving you bad intel), but a TWF vistani assassin rogue is perfectly viable (as are a number of other interpretations). Many of us have specc'd somewhat away from high assassinate DCs in favor of overall DPS. A high 70s, low 80s assassinate DC is plenty at endgame if you pick your targets appropriately (look for mobs with lower fort saves... constructs, some casters, etc.). Is the Inquisitive flavor of the month pretty badass? Sure. Does it mean everything else is ****? Absolutely not. And as for acrobat, my q-staff acrobat pales in comparison to my 'main' rogue (which is an assassin) due to past lives, gear, etc. He's not even in the same league.

    edit: looks like you're on Ghallanda. I'm mostly on mornings (timezone differences and whatnot), but if you see me (I'll be on Shizmonkey), hit me up and I'll be happy to discuss builds with you, recommend gear, etc. I've got a huge soft spot for rogues, and assassins in particular, and I'd like to think I've got a pretty good bead on building and playing them.
    Thank you!

    I feel like a big part of the challenge, walking into this game after 11 years or so, is that information (and recent info) is fairly sparse. Since this post I've gotten all kinds of conflicting viewpoints.
    Honestly, I'm more inclined to stick out assassin spec until 20, at least. Truth be told, I'm re-learning the game exponentially each day I have time to play. It's like drinking from a fire hydrant!

    I will absolutely look you up this week. I'm Stabbius. The main overarching concern I have is having a build i can level well enough with a hireling as needed. I have no clue what I'll do at 20. I'm hoping in a month or whatever I'll have absorbed enough data to have an idea what to do. I just don't want to make the leveling experience for myself this first go 'round any more painful then I feel it has been!
    Stabbius Maximus, halfling rogue returning after like 12 years.

  9. #9
    Community Member kamimitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potvin View Post
    Thank you!

    I feel like a big part of the challenge, walking into this game after 11 years or so, is that information (and recent info) is fairly sparse. Since this post I've gotten all kinds of conflicting viewpoints.
    Honestly, I'm more inclined to stick out assassin spec until 20, at least. Truth be told, I'm re-learning the game exponentially each day I have time to play. It's like drinking from a fire hydrant!

    I will absolutely look you up this week. I'm Stabbius. The main overarching concern I have is having a build i can level well enough with a hireling as needed. I have no clue what I'll do at 20. I'm hoping in a month or whatever I'll have absorbed enough data to have an idea what to do. I just don't want to make the leveling experience for myself this first go 'round any more painful then I feel it has been!
    Cool. I'll keep an eye out. Some basic guiding principles for assassin building and leveling.

    Building an assassin is basically figuring out how to kill them before they can kill you. When given a choice between increased offense or increased defense, you're generally gonna choose offense.

    Vistani is pretty much necessary for a decent DPS assassin. Unlock or purchase it ASAP. It's a huuuuge boost to DPS. Even if you don't have it yet, keep your eyes peeled for decent named daggers on your alts or when looting.

    Keep your primary stat as high as possible (Int or Dex depending on how you built originally. Dex is generally preferred, but Int is perfectly fine, too.

    Try to boost the following with feats/gear/enhancements: Attack Speed/Doublestrike, Overall Damage, Fortification Bypass, Sneak Attack dice. Fort Bypass is EXTREMELY important. Crits and sneak attack depend on getting through enemy fort. Take the Precision feat and turn it on if you haven't already. Look for gear that has fort bypass on it.

    Gear, gear, and gear. Success in DDO is highly gear dependent. Perhaps more so for rogues than other classes. Look carefully at base damage numbers on named daggers (if going vistani), some daggers look unimpressive until you see the base damage numbers (Flint, Sheridan's Wrack, etc.).

    There's more, but I have to get back to work. I'll edit or add another post later.
    Last edited by kamimitsu; 07-16-2019 at 10:42 PM.
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  10. #10
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potvin View Post
    Since this post I've gotten all kinds of conflicting viewpoints...
    I think a big part of that is how people use terms and phrases. If I say "nothing wrong w/ that build", what ~i~ mean is "it's not the best, but it doesn't suck" - but for someone else, IF it's not "the best" - then everything is wrong w/ the build! And, therefore, it sucks any obscenity you care to name. And so on.

    It's all about the yardstick diff people use to measure "workable" - some feel that only the cutting edge is worth playing, others feel that anything that can gimp through a quest is good enough. Bottom line, there is only one person who can tell you which is "fun", and that's you, for yourself.

    GL w/ your choice!

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