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  1. #1
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Default In support of server mergers: pop counts

    Dead horse or not, here it goes.

    Ever since my return to the game population levels have been bugging me. It is hard to get groups going, in part because there aren't that many people on to cover decently the gigantic level and difficulty spread.
    Server mergers, or free server transfers into a consolidated server (I really don't care), seem the obvious way to go. I want to play relatively new content (not some forgotten old pack!) and, besides bugging old friends, I have no options since it just simply doesn't show up (or fill) in the LFM /pug scene. At the moment, this is one of the top impediments for me to enjoy the game.

    So, here it goes. From now on, every time I log in I will post the population counts from the WHO panel in my server. I encourage you to do the same to hopefully motivate SSG to take some action to address this.

    DAY 1 -- 8/7/2019 - UTC 14:00 - Argonessen: around 120 players.

    DAY 2 -- 9/7/2019 - UTC 12:00 - Thelanis: around 70 players
    DAY 2 -- 9/7/2019 - UTC 3:45 - Argonessen: around 100 players.

    DAY 3 -- 10/7/2019 - UTC 9:00 - Thelanis: around 79 players
    DAY 3 -- 10/7/2019 - UTC 13:27 - Argonessen: around 108 players
    DAY 3 -- 10/7/2019 - UTC 23:15 - Khyber: around 160 players.
    DAY 3 -- 10/7/2019 - UTC 23:15 - Sarlona: around 260 players.

    DAY 4 -- 11/7/2019 - UTC 15:43 - Argonessen: around 120 players

    DAY 5 -- 12/7/2019 - UTC 12:49 - Argonessen: around 108 players

    DAY 6 -- 13/7/2019 - UTC 17:45 - Cannith: around 330 players


    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 04:45 - Cannith: around 317 players
    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 06:42 - Cannith: around 164 players
    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 06:42 - Argonessen: around 110 players
    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 09:42 - Argonessen: around 102 players
    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 06:42 - Thelanis: around 142 players
    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 06:42 - Sarlona: around 140 players
    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 06:42 - Ghallanda: around 128 players
    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 06:42 - Orien: around 98 players
    DAY 7 -- 14/7/2019 - UTC 06:42 - Khyber: around 118 players

    DAY 8 -- 15/7/2019 - UTC 14:02 - Argonessen: around 101 players

    DAY 9 -- 16/7/2019 - UTC 00:40 - Sarlona: around 275 players
    DAY 9 -- 16/7/2019 - UTC 11:31 - Sarlona: around 122 players
    DAY 9 -- 16/7/2019 - UTC 11:35 - Argonessen: around 73 players

    DAY 10 -- 17/7/2019 - UTC 19:14 - Argonessen: around 140 players

    DAY 11 -- 18/7/2019 - UTC 13:04 - Argonessen: around 108 players
    Last edited by BigErkyKid; 07-18-2019 at 08:05 AM.

  2. #2
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    I know some people say server mergers are a no-go, but I'll second the strong desire to have them. I will gladly give up the name of all my characters if it means I can go to a sever with the highest population.

  3. #3
    Chaotic Evil Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I know some people say server mergers are a no-go, but I'll second the strong desire to have them. I will gladly give up the name of all my characters if it means I can go to a sever with the highest population.
    I got two theories on what to do:

    1. Add more levels and power creep. Max level is now level 60, you get Legendary Enhancement points and trees, slower going then reaper points, should take 10 years (yes 10) to max out AND to reach level 60.

    2. Devs make a brand NEW server, name it COMBO. Before it opens to the public, the devs make a copy (not a forced transer, just a copy) of every toon on every server on every account. **** the consequences because it's a brand new server anyway. When it opens, you play whatever you what to play, if you even want to play there. Player's choice. Literally.

  4. #4
    Hero apocaladle's Avatar
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    2 things:

    1. I have already done a bunch of tests on server population about 6 minths ago. At that time orien had highest pop and cannith was the default server so it was fastest rising, so by now cannith is likely highest pop. Jump there if you want more groups.

    2. Server merges are a huge mess, not saying it would not be good for the health of the game but there are ither things to consiter. For example as a gaming company they exist to make money and that has to be a consiteration for every large expendeture like this. Its not as simple as copy and paste everyone over, lots of shet can go pear shaped. Like if everyone got moved but TR caches all got deleted that could drive most of the players away and kill the game as the TR cache is a friggen mess of legacy code they don't like but are worried aboit breaking it. They also need a server engineer to make sure the merge goes well as last time they just moved the servers the game was buggered for 3 days. I imagine a merge would drop it as long or longer which would also kill there net income for those days. They would also need to buff their customer service for all the people complaining about having "Name-1" or "Guildname-1" when they feel slighted. Also once it was done but before it was up Cocomojobo's qa team would need to be on a bunch of overtime to make sure it is all good to avoid too much broken stuff or server rollbacks.

    So bottom line it would help the game and players would love it if done with minimal problems but they need to be able to justify that huge risky expense and the resources to do it when all that money and time could go to other things that are higher profit and lower risk like content packs. I am aware it takes a different skill set and different people to do those things but for the money spent they could hire more people to make an expansion or something as ddo is a small game company not some triple a company backed by a publisher with limitless money.

    Also the devs know about all of this there is just nothing they can really say anything on the forums that would help the situation.

  5. #5
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Do I also get like 80 character slots on the server, and are all first time favor rewards multiplied by 10 (given that's the most common new player advice), and shared bank/shared plat multiplied by 10 to deal with how much more I have to share? What about shared crafting storage, should it get multiplied as well? If I'm in a maxed guild on each server, does the airship investment get returned to who spent it, or what? Does guild max size bump x10? What about guild renown, especially for people who are in small guilds who've ground out millions of renown, do they lose that? And if my renown invested is converted to some sort of token (token of 1,038,632 guild renown) and I move to a maxed guild, is that wasted?

    What about inactive players? If one comes back from a 5-year hiatus and their home server is gone, do they know where to go? What if there was a technical issue during the transfer, and they're missing some stuff; will the dev team 5 years from now be able to fix it?

    What about if I have the same character name on every server? Do they go name-1 to name-x and I just have to figure out which is which?

    Frankly I'd be pretty ok with server merges, more players = more fun. That said, there's a TON of technical issues, so I'd be a lot more in favor of server transfers in a certain direction being made much cheaper. Like if devs decide to encourage a server to die, make all transfers off of said server cost 100 DDO points. Or from X server to Y server only cost like 100 points, so friend groups could move cheaply etc. After a few months they could consider a forced server merge, and hopefully have less people to deal with.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
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    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
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    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  6. #6
    Community Member ChadB123's Avatar
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    Default Orien Perception

    I play on Orien and typically have no problem getting a group. I'm not saying population isn't low (subjective), but my experience is different than yours.

  7. #7
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    Population doesn't have to be either low or fine, it can be both, depending on server and time zone. At the very least they should have a different recommended server based on time zone, and put the recommended time zone code in the server name.

    It's pretty uniformly terrible on Euro times though, and they are going to have to figure out how to concentrate the population at some point. Perhaps the first transfer should be free. They might earn more in the long run from player retention.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    Population doesn't have to be either low or fine, it can be both, depending on server and time zone. At the very least they should have a different recommended server based on time zone, and put the recommended time zone code in the server name.

    It's pretty uniformly terrible on Euro times though, and they are going to have to figure out how to concentrate the population at some point. Perhaps the first transfer should be free. They might earn more in the long run from player retention.
    Cannith seems *best* during euro evening (us morning/lunch) - and worst us west coast evenings - so I don't totally agree with your statement about that. If I want easy grouping / power players I normally need to jump on cannith during the us day.

    Having a chart of timezone / population would be great though - or as I've suggested before - an API to the LFM panel so we could write third party tools that do this for us, and could know lfm's without being logged into <x> server.

  9. #9
    Hero, Mo Bro H'ro, & MB Super-H'ro ComicRelief's Avatar
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    Default ...And Again...

    "Dormammu, I've come to bargain."
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  10. #10
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Default Khyber is Fine

    I log in almost daily and see an abundance of LFMs up. Raids are ran very frequently. No to server merges.
    Fizban - Avatar of Khyber
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  11. #11
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    I very much want to be able to play with the other people on the other servers, but I also recognize that a server merge might not be possible for a variety of reasons.

    Something to increase the population that we can play with would be a big help. Maybe something that would let us put up global LFMs instead of having the LFM restricted to our own server?

    That's a lot of work, but it might be more viable than a server merge.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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  12. #12
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    Yeah a merge is just not gonna happen from what I can tell...way too many technical hurdles and other player issues.

    Giving every player a free character transfer or transfers though could be something much more realistic that they could do at some point. Then players could get together and decide on a server or servers to merge to. Dunno if they're willing to give that out for free though.

  13. #13
    Community Member BigErkyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    I know some people say server mergers are a no-go, but I'll second the strong desire to have them. I will gladly give up the name of all my characters if it means I can go to a sever with the highest population.
    Quote Originally Posted by apocaladle View Post
    2. Server merges are a huge mess, not saying it would not be good for the health of the game but there are ither things to consiter.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    That said, there's a TON of technical issues, so I'd be a lot more in favor of server transfers in a certain direction being made much cheaper. Like if devs decide to encourage a server to die, make all transfers off of said server cost 100 DDO points. Or from X server to Y server only cost like 100 points, so friend groups could move cheaply etc. After a few months they could consider a forced server merge, and hopefully have less people to deal with.
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    I very much want to be able to play with the other people on the other servers, but I also recognize that a server merge might not be possible for a variety of reasons.e.
    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    Yeah a merge is just not gonna happen from what I can tell...way too many technical hurdles and other player issues.

    Giving every player a free character transfer or transfers though could be something much more realistic that they could do at some point. Then players could get together and decide on a server or servers to merge to. Dunno if they're willing to give that out for free though.
    Honestly, I don't care how they do it, but I really want more people to play with; cycling through default servers does not seem sustainable to me.

    Free transfers and rename token to a designated migration server? I'll take it. But leaving people in semi-ghost towns seems like a bad strategy to me.

  14. #14
    Chaotic Evil Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    Honestly, I don't care how they do it, but I really want more people to play with; cycling through default servers does not seem sustainable to me.

    Free transfers and rename token to a designated migration server? I'll take it. But leaving people in semi-ghost towns seems like a bad strategy to me.
    Ok Ok Ok I got it! We make DDO 2.0 !! It'll be exactly like it is now, except its one server, 64 bit client, better graphics, etc. Maybe a few minor features hyped up into major features. There, problem solved. Players can either keep playing like they are now, are we can all start over on the one DDO 2.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BigErkyKid View Post
    In support of server mergers: pop counts

    Dead horse or not, here it goes.

    Ever since my return to the game population levels have been bugging me. It is hard to get groups going, in part because [...]
    Ok Ok Ok I got it! We make DDO 2.0 !! It'll be exactly like it is now, except its one server, 64 bit client, better graphics, etc. Maybe a few minor features hyped up into major features. There, problem solved. Players can either keep playing like they are now, are we can all start over on the one DDO 2.
    This is only a short term solution, is it not? What happens when everyone has migrated to 2.0 with 64 bit client(s)?

    The long term solution IMHO would be the ability to join LFMs cross servers does not matter where your character is...

    With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility

  16. #16
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    Lower the cost of a character move to $1
    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    Why should i use all my neural cells when i can go inqui and go pew pew pew ???

  17. #17
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    This is only a short term solution, is it not? What happens when everyone has migrated to 2.0 with 64 bit client(s)?

    The long term solution IMHO would be the ability to join LFMs cross servers does not matter where your character is...
    Hello fellow person from another server with the same name as me. I hope that we don't pull any named items that one or the other of us wants! Or say anything in chat. Hmm.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  18. #18
    Community Member Ghwyn's Avatar
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    If so many think its that important, then move on your own. Don't wait, and do pay the expense. They fact that you can move now but don't shows that its not that important to you.
    Gwhyn Saige - heroic and epic completionist, loving the EK build
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    The long term solution IMHO would be the ability to join LFMs cross servers does not matter where your character is...
    People keep suggesting this but does anyone know if this is even remotely viable?

    Depending on implementation - this could be:

    - nigh on completely impossible even with all of the effort in the world (server instances have no possible way to communicate necessary information (raid timers, lfm info, character info from other db, etc), your client can't connect to two instances anyway, and even if they did, have no possible way to get characters in quests together)
    - completely trivial
    - somewhere in between

    It keeps getting tossed around like it's in the realm of possibility - and it seems pretty likely to me it wouldn't be possible without being incredibly cost prohibitive. Is there a reference or link that indicates it is possible?

  20. #20
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boredGamer View Post
    People keep suggesting this but does anyone know if this is even remotely viable?

    Depending on implementation - this could be:

    - nigh on completely impossible even with all of the effort in the world (server instances have no possible way to communicate necessary information (raid timers, lfm info, character info from other db, etc), your client can't connect to two instances anyway, and even if they did, have no possible way to get characters in quests together)
    - completely trivial
    - somewhere in between

    It keeps getting tossed around like it's in the realm of possibility - and it seems pretty likely to me it wouldn't be possible without being incredibly cost prohibitive. Is there a reference or link that indicates it is possible?

    Its at least not a 100% guaranteed “no” like server merges are. It might never happen, but we know for sure that the server merges won’t happen. That’s already confirmed.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

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