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Thread: scourge ranger

  1. #1
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Default scourge ranger

    simply put - stick with blunt weapons or go with longswords?


    I have knights training but not a lot of racial ap on that char.


    i have 17 points in racial 42 in dread and 23 in dws. that leaves none for harper and kta.

    if i dont go blunt, i can go with around 7 in aas and pick up kta

    this is a pure ranger str based

    please advise


    thanks guys.
    Last edited by Hobgoblin; 07-04-2019 at 04:09 AM.
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
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    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    thoughts?

    still taking dire charge.

    need the bonus to it i think to have it hit in later content
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
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    Community Member Palna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    thoughts?

    still taking dire charge.

    need the bonus to it i think to have it hit in later content
    Reduce racial to 9? I like to have all cores, and improved scourge weapons. I guess you could go to 21 in DWS, for crit range. I don’t use blunt though. KTA is pretty important imo, str on pure rangers is lacking compared to others and no tactical enhancements hurt your DC.

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    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palna View Post
    Reduce racial to 9? I like to have all cores, and improved scourge weapons. I guess you could go to 21 in DWS, for crit range. I don’t use blunt though. KTA is pretty important imo, str on pure rangers is lacking compared to others and no tactical enhancements hurt your DC.
    i have that for the enhancment on the left side - it gives me a +1 sacred bonus to crit range with aas weapons
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palna View Post
    Reduce racial to 9? I like to have all cores, and improved scourge weapons. I guess you could go to 21 in DWS, for crit range. I don’t use blunt though. KTA is pretty important imo, str on pure rangers is lacking compared to others and no tactical enhancements hurt your DC.
    Exactly. Aasimar Scourge is a trap. Compared to facials where aasimar reigns king, this is the worst iconic you could do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    Exactly. Aasimar Scourge is a trap. Compared to racials where aasimar reigns king, this is the worst iconic you could do.
    while i am not precisely disagreeing with you as i feel the same way......... do you have numbers or stats to back it up?

    right now im using ic blunt ic slash and knights training. i went all the way up the left hand side of racial tree to get heal amp and the crit mod with the healing hands.

    i could switch out the ic blunt for kopeshes and go with long swords and scimis...... which would let me take kta at the cost of losing 20 amp.


    I just want some numbers to either back up or deny my feeling
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
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    Community Member Palna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    while i am not precisely disagreeing with you as i feel the same way......... do you have numbers or stats to back it up?

    right now im using ic blunt ic slash and knights training. i went all the way up the left hand side of racial tree to get heal amp and the crit mod with the healing hands.

    i could switch out the ic blunt for kopeshes and go with long swords and scimis...... which would let me take kta at the cost of losing 20 amp.


    I just want some numbers to either back up or deny my feeling
    I don't really have any numbers for you, but someone on a different forum showed some numbers that put scourge weapons close to Khopesh or Longsword with Knights Training

    I'm using Khopesh (had many of those from before), and blunt weapons when needed. Good thing with ranger is it's crit modifiers is weapon agnostic. It's question of how many racial PL do I have, and can I get all I need in Scourge together with 41-42 Tempest, 21-24 in DWS and 8 in Harper for KTA.

    With a swap item I get +11 (iirc) from KTA, in my oppinion it makes up for the Scourge weapons crit multi when you factor in the added CC from Dire Charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    while i am not precisely disagreeing with you as i feel the same way......... do you have numbers or stats to back it up?

    right now im using ic blunt ic slash and knights training. i went all the way up the left hand side of racial tree to get heal amp and the crit mod with the healing hands.

    i could switch out the ic blunt for kopeshes and go with long swords and scimis...... which would let me take kta at the cost of losing 20 amp.


    I just want some numbers to either back up or deny my feeling
    The only reason to go Scourge is for TWF with maces. Things that make Scourge bad compared to Aasimar:

    Divine Form Toggle isn’t really a toggle on Aasmiar and is even worse than Angelic Form in EA. Because after 75 seconds you die. And then it cost 30sp to reactivate after cooldown. Not worth getting at all.

    All weapon stuff is related to maces, clubs and mornigstars. Considering maces are the only competitive weapon of the bunch, it leaves you one weapon choice. And with poor selection, needing to burn additional feat (Knights Training) to make the crit/dmg profile competitive with even scimitars, it seems like still a poor weapon

    Ranger is just a terrible combo with the enhancements in the tree. Ranger tempest dual wielding maces. That just makes no sense. Personally FVS or Barbarian would have both been better choices.

    The bond is weak and makes no sense at all. +CON and +Fort save...on what is supposed to be a tempest ranger? Why not STR or WIS and reflex?

    The divine purpose is weak as well. Not worth getting.

    The only real benefit you get from Scourge is the healing hands again unless you build a mace build. All the other iconic have a case for viable end game builds except Scourge. And even though the forced level isn’t always ideal it at least makes sense and can be incorporated into the build.

    So far Aasimar Scourge is the only life I was forced to LR when going through iconics. I hate iconics anyways but unless you are OK running a gimp life from 15-30 then you must build for dual wielding maces. Although now with inquisitor tree, at least you have a pew pew option.

    This is what makes Scourge a trap. No numbers just reasonable expectations.
    Last edited by jskinner937; 07-05-2019 at 08:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palna View Post
    I don't really have any numbers for you, but someone on a different forum showed some numbers that put scourge weapons close to Khopesh or Longsword with Knights Training

    I'm using Khopesh (had many of those from before), and blunt weapons when needed. Good thing with ranger is it's crit modifiers is weapon agnostic. It's question of how many racial PL do I have, and can I get all I need in Scourge together with 41-42 Tempest, 21-24 in DWS and 8 in Harper for KTA.

    With a swap item I get +11 (iirc) from KTA, in my oppinion it makes up for the Scourge weapons crit multi when you factor in the added CC from Dire Charge.
    Is this what you thought you read before?

    Threat Range:

    Morningstar (or mace) 20x2

    IC: 19-20 x2 (same bonus as Knights Training and does not stack with IC. However if IUC you still need to burn a feat on IC to get IC Bludgeoning to get Overwhelming Critical epic feat.

    Non Swash Melee Competence: 18-20x3

    Scourge: 18-20 x4

    OC: 18 x4, 19-20 x5

    DC: 18 x4, 19-20 x6

    Pulverizer: 17-18 x4, 19-20 x6

    That's not a bad place to end up. You have a few clickes that will enhance that for sepcific attacks.

    If you do a swash splash, you can get to 16-20 x4, 19-20 x6. And grab En Pointe at T2 of the tree for 8 AP. But now you are limited to light maces. That's not as bad as it sounds in Epics. There is the Drow Mace, the TF maces, LGS, and the RL light maces that will all work. But it is limiting.

    For comparison: both better IMO and do not need Scourge at all

    Typical Khopesh:
    16-18 x4, 19-20x6

    Typical Scimitar/Rapier:
    14-18 x3, 19-20 x5

    If so it was a vault post.....here is link.

    http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb...num=1520184102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palna View Post
    I don't really have any numbers for you, but someone on a different forum showed some numbers that put scourge weapons close to Khopesh or Longsword with Knights Training

    I'm using Khopesh (had many of those from before), and blunt weapons when needed. Good thing with ranger is it's crit modifiers is weapon agnostic. It's question of how many racial PL do I have, and can I get all I need in Scourge together with 41-42 Tempest, 21-24 in DWS and 8 in Harper for KTA.

    With a swap item I get +11 (iirc) from KTA, in my oppinion it makes up for the Scourge weapons crit multi when you factor in the added CC from Dire Charge.
    Is this what you thought you read before?

    Threat Range:

    Morningstar (or mace) 20x2

    IC: 19-20 x2 (same bonus as Knights Training and does not stack with IC. However if IUC you still need to burn a feat on IC to get IC Bludgeoning to get Overwhelming Critical epic feat.

    Non Swash Melee Competence: 18-20x3

    Scourge: 18-20 x4

    OC: 18 x4, 19-20 x5

    DC: 18 x4, 19-20 x6

    Pulverizer: 17-18 x4, 19-20 x6

    That's not a bad place to end up. You have a few clickes that will enhance that for sepcific attacks.

    If you do a swash splash, you can get to 16-20 x4, 19-20 x6. And grab En Pointe at T2 of the tree for 8 AP. But now you are limited to light maces. That's not as bad as it sounds in Epics. There is the Drow Mace, the TF maces, LGS, and the RL light maces that will all work. But it is limiting.

    For comparison: both better IMO and do not need Scourge at all

    Typical Khopesh:
    16-18 x4, 19-20x6

    Typical Scimitar/Rapier:
    14-18 x3, 19-20 x5

    If so it was a vault post.....here is link.

    http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb...num=1520184102

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    The past life feat is outstanding for Scourge.

    I have the mace from KT and THtH, scourge still that bad?
    Last edited by Doomflayer; 07-05-2019 at 12:40 PM.

  12. #12
    Community Member Palna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    Is this what you thought you read before?
    Yeah that one, I think there were discussions about it in other threads like the big tempest one also.

    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    So far Aasimar Scourge is the only life I was forced to LR when going through iconics. I hate iconics anyways but unless you are OK running a gimp life from 15-30 then you must build for dual wielding maces. Although now with inquisitor tree, at least you have a pew pew option.
    While I agree about the Purpose and Form enhancemts lacking I don’t understand this bit, it’s not like ranger is weak without a racial tree. Especially on a race where you for 7AP get 7 regenerating Healing Hand charges and +2 str, and for 2 more AP get 5% doublestrike. What made you feel like LRing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palna View Post
    Yeah that one, I think there were discussions about it in other threads like the big tempest one also.


    While I agree about the Purpose and Form enhancemts lacking I don’t understand this bit, it’s not like ranger is weak without a racial tree. Especially on a race where you for 7AP get 7 regenerating Healing Hand charges and +2 str, and for 2 more AP get 5% doublestrike. What made you feel like LRing?
    It may be more biased to be honest. I agree the 7AP for regenerating healings is nice but that is nice for any build. Why ranger. I guess I just consider a dual wielding ranger is going to have no problems self healing anyways. There are just so many other better tempest builds out there that are so good. Scourge is simply not one of them. Even other iconic skipping the capstone like Morninglord or shader kai will outperform Scourge In DPS and ultimately survivability. Elf tempest pure with scimmies or human or Aasimar with khopeshes just seem like more obvious options. I guess I just feel like iconics shouldn’t be purposely made to fit a round peg in a square hole and that is what Scourge feels like.

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    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    in conclusion - i think it is viable to go blunt if you have a ton of racial ap.

    on him im going back to kopesh
    main toons: Cerrsi(silly caster/xbow) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly melee)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

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    Community Member tpbtoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    in conclusion - i think it is viable to go blunt if you have a ton of racial ap.

    on him im going back to kopesh
    Best combo for STR Tempest is Flow + Nightshard. Great CC and DPS, helps party a lot. Plus a pair of Vulkoor's Edge slotted with good for all around DR break when needed. Plus a pair of Beacon of day/night for skeleton beat and Broccoli for ooze/rust monsters. That's what I use on mine.

    * I slot adamantine on my Flow and Nightshard for construct beating + fort reduction
    Last edited by tpbtoc; 07-06-2019 at 08:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tpbtoc View Post
    Best combo for STR Tempest is Flow + Nightshard. Great CC and DPS, helps party a lot. Plus a pair of Vulkoor's Edge slotted with good for all around DR break when needed. Plus a pair of Beacon of day/night for skeleton beat and Broccoli for ooze/rust monsters. That's what I use on mine.

    * I slot adamantine on my Flow and Nightshard for construct beating + fort reduction
    I have all those weapons, love my Soulrazor/greensteel weapons as much as anything. Affirmation and Dust also help party/raid DPS or in affirmation case healers can forget needing to heal you. When I am not using Affirmation I tend to die as Ranger generates massive mob hate.
    Last edited by Doomflayer; 07-06-2019 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomflayer View Post
    I have all those weapons, love my Soulrazor/greensteel weapons as much as anything. Affirmation and Dust also help party/raid DPS or in affirmation case healers can forget needing to heal you. When I am not using Affirmation I tend to die as Ranger generates massive mob hate.
    I use affirmation when running with not so reliable cc/healers, or on high skulls
    Soulzaror would be the best raw dps, more than any other option, but doesn't boost other people dps or bring cc. Many pug don't bring vulnerability so I bring mine. When playing with guildies this is not much of an issue. If cc/vulnerability is not an issue than Soulrazor is awesome.
    Dust is good option to boost party dps.

    Good thing about TWF is that you can change weapons very easily as situation requires

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