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  1. #1
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Default One other complaint.

    I did an elite run of spies in the house today. a level 23 quest. I brought in a level 22 rogue hire as i was level 22.
    I was running my bard and gave the rogue at least a plus 10 bonus to his skills. More like a +13 actually. I have 3 druid lives.
    Let me tell you this rogue could not search a single trap. Couldn't find them at all. I have a 64 search and couldn't find them either, but i'm not a level 22 pure rogue.

    I'm pretty sure that's not WAI.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  2. #2
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    you are bard? try scrolling find traps

    u need the feat thingee of find traps otherwise doesnt matter your search
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
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  3. #3
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    I did an elite run of spies in the house today. a level 23 quest. I brought in a level 22 rogue hire as i was level 22.
    I was running my bard and gave the rogue at least a plus 10 bonus to his skills. More like a +13 actually. I have 3 druid lives.
    Let me tell you this rogue could not search a single trap. Couldn't find them at all. I have a 64 search and couldn't find them either, but i'm not a level 22 pure rogue.

    I'm pretty sure that's not WAI.
    Agreed. One of the best possibilities about hirelings doesn't work.
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  4. #4
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    I did an elite run of spies in the house today. a level 23 quest. I brought in a level 22 rogue hire as i was level 22.
    I was running my bard and gave the rogue at least a plus 10 bonus to his skills. More like a +13 actually. I have 3 druid lives.
    Let me tell you this rogue could not search a single trap. Couldn't find them at all. I have a 64 search and couldn't find them either, but i'm not a level 22 pure rogue.

    I'm pretty sure that's not WAI.
    So, first, spies in the house has a base level of 21, if you did it on elite then it would be a lv23 quest. The trap dc's range from the upper 50's to the upper 80's.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_informa...use_.28Epic.29

    From another tread:
    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    It depends on the hireling. Some of them are great trappers and some are terrible. Every hireling has their own "build" setup.

    And, of course, they don't tell you which is which in the hireling description. For instance, from what I remember the level 5 rogue hireling is a better trapper than the level 6 hireling, which is a thief acrobat and a TERRIBLE trapper.
    It seems the lv 22 rogue hire just isn' good at trapfinding.
    Rogue hirelings work ok at level in heroics, with buffs, some of them can function on elite at level but in epics they are just no good.

    The devs in ddo have always been good at delivering systems and never updating it, the augment system is a good example, it's stats are outdone by the canith crafting and once you near cap(30) the stats on all but a few named ones are useless.

    Hirelings are no different, just another forgotten system.

    Typo: the base level is 21
    Last edited by lyrecono; 07-02-2019 at 01:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  5. #5
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
    you are bard? try scrolling find traps

    u need the feat thingee of find traps otherwise doesnt matter your search
    Maybe next time I'll try that. Although i wasn't really pointing out my own lack of trap finding ability.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  6. #6
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    So, first, spies in the house has a base level of 24, if you did it on elite then it would be a lv26 quest. The trap dc's range from the upper 50's to the upper 80's.


    Hirelings are no different, just another forgotten system.
    Exactly.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  7. #7
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    So, first, spies in the house has a base level of 24, if you did it on elite then it would be a lv26 quest. The trap dc's range from the upper 50's to the upper 80's.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_informa...use_.28Epic.29

    From another tread:


    It seems the lv 22 rogue hire just isn' good at trapfinding.
    Rogue hirelings work ok at level in heroics, with buffs, some of them can function on elite at level but in epics they are just no good.

    The devs in ddo have always been good at delivering systems and never updating it, the augment system is a good example, it's stats are outdone by the canith crafting and once you near cap(30) the stats on all but a few named ones are useless.

    Hirelings are no different, just another forgotten system.
    You know, those hires are sold in the store. I'm pretty sure that when people buy them they expect them to be able to do traps. If they can't it's not the customers fault for picking the wrong rogue.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  8. #8
    Community Member Mglaxix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    I did an elite run of spies in the house today. a level 23 quest. I brought in a level 22 rogue hire as i was level 22.
    I was running my bard and gave the rogue at least a plus 10 bonus to his skills. More like a +13 actually. I have 3 druid lives.
    Let me tell you this rogue could not search a single trap. Couldn't find them at all. I have a 64 search and couldn't find them either, but i'm not a level 22 pure rogue.

    I'm pretty sure that's not WAI.
    The epic rogue hires are useless grab the level 20 rogue use gh if you have druid past lives it will help as well
    Main 100+ Lives ( 42/42 HTR - 15/21 ITR - 36/36 ETR - 12/14 RAP - 30/36 RTR - 83/154 ), Jynxer - Completionist ( 22/42 HTR - 7/21 ITR - 12/36 ETR - 2/14 RAP - 1/36 RTR - 36/154 ), SoulDuster - Completionist ( 15x HTR 3x ETR 20/154 ) BlakReign - 1st Life Reaper https://ibb.co/album/k1hMqa https://ibb.co/album/g0yuAa https://ibb.co/album/bXjCWF

  9. #9
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    You know, those hires are sold in the store. I'm pretty sure that when people buy them they expect them to be able to do traps. If they can't it's not the customers fault for picking the wrong rogue.
    I wouldn't know, i never buy consumebles from the store, especially if in game items can be bought at a vendor.

    I have used the store only for longer lasting items over the years.
    New players will learn the same hard lesson we did.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  10. #10
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Spies in the house is Level 21, so 23 on elite.

    A level 22 rogue should be able to handle it with all the buffs he has for it. But there are a few that are just bad. The 22 might be the **** one. It shows two damage boosts, so it does not seem very skill focused.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  11. #11
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    it should be dc 61 search to find those traps
    https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_informa...use_.28Epic.29

  12. #12
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default Just run past/jump over, ignore traps.

    And do a 2nd EE run for XP. It's a bunch more XP compared to trap bonus in one EE run and doesn't take much longer than fiddling farting around with a hire.

    However, I do get your point. The hire *should* have worked with all the buffs you had on him. Bummer that it didn't. Which Hire was it?
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature". Mokune (Guild Leader of Pandora's Box on Khyber), Iquitz, Returning, Thaumat, Ketzerisch, Xhiron, Koanoak et al...

  13. #13
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    The last time I tested the Trap DCs for: Spies in the House (Epic Elite) the suspected [Search] DC was 61.

    The Rogue Acrobat Hireling Cassandra, is Level 22, so it's not surprising it was struggling with a level 21 quest on Elite. It's likely been programmed as a STR or DEX based Rogue with low INT aimed for Level 22 Epic Hard quests, with Search DCs in the low 50s.

    It should be pretty easy to calculate her actual Search Skill [DC] ability; assuming you don't have additional buffs boosting Hirelings, or other Party members, etc. Albeit OP mentioned they were boosting the Hireling's Search skills by a significant amount; if it were around +13 bonuses to its Search [Skills], you'd expect that should raise the DC enough.

    The Level 21 Rogue Hireling likely has a better "Search skills" than Cassandra, though I've never needed a Rogue Hireling, so without actually testing I cannot be certain. :-)

  14. #14
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    it should be dc 61 search to find those traps
    https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_informa...use_.28Epic.29
    Definitely not a 61. Like i said. I have a 64.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  15. #15
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feralthyrtiaq View Post
    And do a 2nd EE run for XP. It's a bunch more XP compared to trap bonus in one EE run and doesn't take much longer than fiddling farting around with a hire.

    However, I do get your point. The hire *should* have worked with all the buffs you had on him. Bummer that it didn't. Which Hire was it?
    I just wanted the extra xp. It's the level 22 rogue. There's only one.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    Definitely not a 61. Like i said. I have a 64.
    If you don't have any rogue/arty levels, you won't find any traps with a DC higher than 20 regardless of how high your search is.

  17. #17
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    Maybe next time I'll try that. Although i wasn't really pointing out my own lack of trap finding ability.
    this is just to find out if its dcs or not. ie if you can find it with 64 then you know that is what you need to boost too
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
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    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  18. #18
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    If you don't have any rogue/arty levels, you won't find any traps with a DC higher than 20 regardless of how high your search is.
    u do if you cast find traps
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  19. #19
    Community Member Strambotica's Avatar
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    Lilo lvl 21 Rogue Hireling is the best trapper of the epic hirelings, used to solo a lot and always use her (and still don't have all the did PL).

  20. #20
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    Hmm, I did some testing of the 'Epic Rogue Hirelings' on Lammania within 'Spies in the House (Epic Elite)' on the first few traps, which still appear to a have a Search DC of 61.

    My own Assassin was running on Guild buffs [Sellswords' Tavern] so she was boosting their Abilities by: +3. So it's likely it made their Search and Spot skills become: 1 or 2 DC higher. :-/

    Unfortunately I didn't have more than a handful of minutes testing time; as I was rewiring the indoor house telephone wire to the Router. As recently I've been having increased networking connectivity issues and rather annoying "serve" lag. I used some donated heavy duty CW1326 wire; 4 core wire, as thick as quality electrical wire, and likely to have a twenty year guarantee - overkill but could be just shoved under a floor carpet without risk of wear, etc. ;-)

    In the process, I also found a performance fault on one of the DSL Filters. Short version; now significantly less lag, no DC issues thus far. Plus an armour plated wire with no faulty end connectors. :D

    None of the Epic Rogue Hirelings (Range: 21-24) appeared to be able to Spot the first few traps suggested their Spot DC was lower than 61. Neither did: Lilo Blackstitch, Mussassaba, Cassandra or Iessin seem to be able to successfully Search for a Control panel. Even when they were a foot away from the box location. Therefore suggesting all of the Epic Rogue Hirelings Search Skill, is less than 61!

    Out of curiosity, I decided to press the "Disable" icon, and even though Iessin Level 24, could not locate the Control Panel, (using Search icon) he actually somehow attempted to Disable the box. Thus revealing the box, but Blowing-it-up, in other words a 'Critical Fail' LOL.

    Really, it should NOT have been possible for him to attempt a "Disable" as the Box wasn't revealed and he didn't have the Search DC either to find the box in the first place!

    If I had more time; I'd have rolled a Test Rogue without Guild Buffs and done Heroic Hard to narrow down their actual Search skill values. Though it's now looking like their default Search Skill DC is below 61 and not suitable for Level 21 quests on Elite. :-)

    That also suggests they wouldn't be able to do Level 27 quests on Epic Hard so evidently the Epic Rogues weren't designed to find Traps in (Level 21+) Epic Elite quests. ;-)
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 07-14-2019 at 07:28 AM. Reason: Grammar.

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