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  1. #1
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    Default Spell Resistance?

    I'm curious about the current state of spell resistance. My general thoughts are that unless you are in the "correct" race/class, it's not worth putting anything towards it. However, I am often wrong and would love to be so in that case. Is there a number to aim for for SR to be relevant in low reaper?


    Edit: added "class"
    Last edited by guzzlr; 06-23-2019 at 07:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guzzlr View Post
    I'm curious about the current state of spell resistance. My general thoughts are that unless you are in the "correct" race, it's not worth putting anything towards it. However, I am often wrong and would love to be so in that case. Is there a number to aim for for SR to be relevant in low reaper?
    20+ mob cr regardless of difficulty. https://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Resistance

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gauntl...e_Iron_Council +78 enhancement and insightful
    and twist t2 serenity for +9 untyped stacking

    gets you to 87 without race/class investment, don't know how useful it would turn out to be tho, depends on your content choice and saves I guess.

  3. #3
    Community Member TedSandyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guzzlr View Post
    I'm curious about the current state of spell resistance. My general thoughts are that unless you are in the "correct" race, it's not worth putting anything towards it. However, I am often wrong and would love to be so in that case. Is there a number to aim for for SR to be relevant in low reaper?
    One of the level 3 cloaks has SR of 17. I usually wear that at low levels. It helps against hold spells. I upgrade it to a crafted 20 later, pretty much because I don't really have anything else for a cloak at the lower levels. Then, when I get to a level with a decent cloak, I get rid of it because SR 20 is pretty useless by that time.

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    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guzzlr View Post
    I'm curious about the current state of spell resistance. My general thoughts are that unless you are in the "correct" race, it's not worth putting anything towards it. However, I am often wrong and would love to be so in that case. Is there a number to aim for for SR to be relevant in low reaper?
    Currently, the SR is in my opinion bad balanced and very odd...
    It depends foremost on the class if you got an SR that is high enough to be useful (I consider SR as useful if you can be sure you are protected).
    For this, you should be either a barbarian occult slayer or a monk because the SR bonuses of this classes fully stack with items etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    20+ mob cr regardless of difficulty. https://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Resistance
    Unfortunately, it is not regardless of difficulty, in reaper monster casters get a bonus to spell penetration depending on the number of skulls, how this is exactly calculated is unknown as far as I know.
    This means the question is if it is a new calculation for reaper or if the monsters got just only a fixed bonus to spell penetration.
    Anyway, the result is that you are not 100% protected even with 100+ Spell Resistance at level 30 in high skull reaper.
    And it is for me unknown if there is a score that protects you 100% in reaper (if there is a different calculation similar to AC in reaper)
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
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    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
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    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    Currently, the SR is in my opinion bad balanced and very odd...
    It depends foremost on the class if you got an SR that is high enough to be useful (I consider SR as useful if you can be sure you are protected).
    For this, you should be either a barbarian occult slayer or a monk because the SR bonuses of this classes fully stack with items etc.



    Unfortunately, it is not regardless of difficulty, in reaper monster casters get a bonus to spell penetration depending on the number of skulls, how this is exactly calculated is unknown as far as I know.
    This means the question is if it is a new calculation for reaper or if the monsters got just only a fixed bonus to spell penetration.
    Anyway, the result is that you are not 100% protected even with 100+ Spell Resistance at level 30 in high skull reaper.
    And it is for me unknown if there is a score that protects you 100% in reaper (if there is a different calculation similar to AC in reaper)
    Uhh... Monk SR dose not stack with gear SR...

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    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NemesisAlien View Post
    Uhh... Monk SR dose not stack with gear SR...
    It stacks with enhancement and insightful bonus from items and also with racial SR and SR from destinies.
    I would recommend you to not claim things you obviously dont know and maybe test it before you claim it...
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

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    Here is my opinion on the matter.

    Players add bonuses like incorporeal and concealment (dusk, blur and displacement) which has benefits between 10% to 50% chance of being missed independently. Statistically layered it has a different number generally better.

    Example: AC + Incorporeal + Concealment + Dodge stacked to optimize the chance of being missed for each build
    * Keep in mind that each of those can be bypassed based on what you are fighting. Which is why stacking helps.

    With Spells this formula comes down to:
    Saves + Spell Resistance.

    So statistically even a 10% Spell Resistance could mean a slightly better then 10% chance of not being effected by a spell that needs to bypass SR.

    Now each build has to find that balance that works best for them. It may even mean using a "swappable" item when you run into those types of casters, thus having something better in place when not being spammed spells the SR can help protect against.

    Some say it is CR + 20 of the caster outside of Reaper, with each Skull adding to that number. But keep in mind that in many cases people are discussing "No fail" or "Fail on a 1" numbers. That is not necessarily the "best" value to have, and if you are one that uses Dusk or Blur because you feel that is useful then SR giving you better then 10% should also seem useful for the same reason.

  8. #8
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    Here is my opinion on the matter.

    Players add bonuses like incorporeal and concealment (dusk, blur and displacement) which has benefits between 10% to 50% chance of being missed independently. Statistically layered it has a different number generally better.

    Example: AC + Incorporeal + Concealment + Dodge stacked to optimize the chance of being missed for each build
    * Keep in mind that each of those can be bypassed based on what you are fighting. Which is why stacking helps.

    With Spells this formula comes down to:
    Saves + Spell Resistance.

    So statistically even a 10% Spell Resistance could mean a slightly better then 10% chance of not being effected by a spell that needs to bypass SR.

    Now each build has to find that balance that works best for them. It may even mean using a "swappable" item when you run into those types of casters, thus having something better in place when not being spammed spells the SR can help protect against.

    Some say it is CR + 20 of the caster outside of Reaper, with each Skull adding to that number. But keep in mind that in many cases people are discussing "No fail" or "Fail on a 1" numbers. That is not necessarily the "best" value to have, and if you are one that uses Dusk or Blur because you feel that is useful then SR giving you better then 10% should also seem useful for the same reason.
    The only issue with regards to SR is this: spell resistance checks do not automatically fail on a 1. So if you have an SR of 17, and an enemy has a caster level of 16, it will ALWAYS bypass your SR. Against that enemy, SR 17 does nothing. It is the same as having a 0. So there are break points / minimum values you must reach for specific content in order to see any benefit at all.

    (unless SR was changed to use a different formula to make the caster level check to overcome it such that failure is always possible regardless of the numbers. But in it's original incarnation in DDO, if a roll of a 1 plus your caster level is higher than the target SR, then that SR may as well not even exist)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    20+ mob cr regardless of difficulty. https://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_Resistance

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gauntl...e_Iron_Council +78 enhancement and insightful
    and twist t2 serenity for +9 untyped stacking

    gets you to 87 without race/class investment, don't know how useful it would turn out to be tho, depends on your content choice and saves I guess.
    Thank you for link!

    So, assuming a CR of 63 (LE Sharn - no skulls)I would need a 65 SR to get any benefit (the monsters will always at least get 63 + 1 and a match equals a "hit")?

    Crafted Item: +51 (34+17) = Not useful yet.
    Leg Drow Outrunner: +10 (Quality) = 61 Not useful yet.

    So, that leaves us with Race: Drow, Class: Monk, and/or Epic stuff (plus above); or the Raid item to make SR valid?

    Assuming my goofy math is close, it doesn't seem to be something worth going after... which is a shame.

  10. #10
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    It stacks with enhancement and insightful bonus from items and also with racial SR and SR from destinies.
    I would recommend you to not claim things you obviously dont know and maybe test it before you claim it...
    Insightful of course, profane, etc etc etc will stack, I mean say gear says you got SP of X, dont stack with monk. (Unless they fixed it?)

    I also recall drow dont stack with monk, so pointless having drow monk. (Again unless they fixed it?)

  11. #11
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NemesisAlien View Post
    Insightful of course, profane, etc etc etc will stack, I mean say gear says you got SP of X, dont stack with monk. (Unless they fixed it?)

    I also recall drow dont stack with monk, so pointless having drow monk. (Again unless they fixed it?)
    Things can change basically with every update...
    Currently monk SR stack with EVERYTHING, as far as I know, the same for the SR from barbarian occult slayer capstone.
    And this is already for years the case.
    For monks, I just tested it to verify it (because I usually dont claim someone is wrong before I did a test) for barbarians I cannot verify it currently but on my latest barbarian a few weeks ago it worked also as I said.
    Therefore once again, before you tell someone is wrong, which can always happen because the game can change without any announcement from the developers, please TEST it and verify what you think.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  12. #12

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    I've been running around with 96 SR at cap for a few days and it seems to work well. I haven't really tested it too much. I use the Con/SR artifact and Serenity twisted, which gives +18 SR. (The description for serenity isn't very clear. Rank 3 does gives +18 SR though. You really have to twist it if you are going for SR in your build.)

    The issue I have is that many spells in DnD that have SR checks do not have SR checks in DDO. Basically anything that does direct damage doesn't have a SR check in DDO, so it won't help you with burning blood in DDO but it would in PnP. DDO spells don't follow PnP for balance reasons I guess.

    If you have high saves and maybe a no fail a one, I wouldn't really bother with SR. It does help a if you have low saves though. Especially will saves - Hold Person and Otto's Dancing Sphere can really suck. Also, SR is useful against certain effects that have no saving throw but do have an SR check. Like Beholder rays and umber hulk gaze.

    When Ravenloft came out I used a CC item with 51 SR and twisted +18 (serenity) and +6 Racial for a total of 75 and it worked fairly well in low reaper Ravenloft.
    Last edited by Gemini-Dragon357; 06-23-2019 at 11:18 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member NemesisAlien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    Things can change basically with every update...
    Currently monk SR stack with EVERYTHING, as far as I know, the same for the SR from barbarian occult slayer capstone.
    And this is already for years the case.
    For monks, I just tested it to verify it (because I usually dont claim someone is wrong before I did a test) for barbarians I cannot verify it currently but on my latest barbarian a few weeks ago it worked also as I said.
    Therefore once again, before you tell someone is wrong, which can always happen because the game can change without any announcement from the developers, please TEST it and verify what you think.
    Fixxed is good, thanks.

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