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  1. #1
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Default Gearing a melee FvS at 20

    Hi folks,

    Looking for advice here. How would you gear a melee FvS at 20, before you start getting access to all the sweet epic gear at levels 23 / 26 / 28?

    I've run a pure vistani / warsoul FvS through the heroics with relative ease, mostly crushing R1, sometimes having to drop to Elite. Not bad for a 3rd life toon with no useful past lives. However, as soon as I reached 20, I've smashed hard against the wall that is "Epic Elite" - even "easier" EEs like Sentinels chain are not really doable or worth doing; most of the spells don't land anymore, so no damage mitigation with CC; DPS is okay but can't reliably stay alive for long, especially if I encounter a champ. Seems like my heroic level 15~18 gear isn't cutting it.

    What can I do to make the toon playable in 20-30? Or is it just down to "grind X past lives", and I should give up on having a competent epic-range toon without investing 1-2 years in it?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Ausdoerrt; 06-18-2019 at 05:43 AM.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  2. #2
    Community Member DaviMOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Hi folks,

    Looking for advice here. How would you gear a melee FvS at 20, before you start getting access to all the sweet epic gear at levels 23 / 26 / 28?

    I've run a pure vistani / warsoul FvS through the heroics with relative ease, mostly crushing R1, sometimes having to drop to Elite. Not bad for a 3rd life toon with no useful past lives. However, as soon as I reached 20, I've smashed hard against the wall that is "Epic Elite" - even "easier" EEs like Sentinels chain are not really doable or worth doing; most of the spells don't land anymore, so no damage mitigation with CC; DPS is okay but can't reliably stay alive for long, especially if I encounter a champ. Seems like my heroic level 15~18 gear isn't cutting it.

    What can I do to make the toon playable in 20-30? Or is it just down to "grind X past lives", and I should give up on having a competent epic-range toon without investing 1-2 years in it?

    Thanks!
    Have you tried ES chain 1,2,3? Those IMO are the easiest epic ones. While sentinels and carnival are also easy ones they got some unbalance with mobs damage and fort requirements for a 20-22 toon. Crafted 20s from the old epic crafting system also helps. Dont know what you would get for a vistani but my Epic Antique Greataxe have been an old partner for an arrival on epics. Also 15-18 ml gear? Updated heroic gear stops at 15. You may look into sharn/rage/mines gear or even ES comm gear for those levels until 23. Its solo doable, so no PLs required but If its a first lifer and have no EDs developed you may need extra caution or a group as solo may not be worth of time or effort unless the challenge is rewarding for you . Remember, EPICs where designed to be what Reaper is today so its group oriented even so the challenge is outdated nowdays and many folks can solo everything it wasnt meant to be a easy solo experience.

    All that is true for EE, reaper on epics takes another step and is not that crushing fest you see on heroics. From 23 and higher there is plenty of gear growth but a bit hard to get ( such as red/green dragonscale armors and CITW weapons) but they are there.
    Last edited by DaviMOC; 06-18-2019 at 06:33 AM.

  3. #3
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    So yeah, work on your DCs to make CC work again?
    - use a destiny that adds to your main stat and DCs
    - use a sentient dagger that adds to your main stat and DCs
    - use twists that add to your main stat and DCs

    If all that fails, group up and play a healer.

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    Could be a spell penetration issue. Alot of drow and demons at 20.

  5. #5
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Just realized that I've posted in the cleric instead of FvS forum. D'oh! If the mods could move the thread, that'd be great.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaviMOC View Post
    Have you tried ES chain 1,2,3?
    No, I have not, and in fact I haven't done them much at all, ever. Thanks for the tip.

    mobs damage and fort requirements for a 20-22 toon
    Could you elaborate on this? I did notice getting some crits, sitting at 139% fort. Do mobs have significant fort bypass?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush007 View Post
    Could be a spell penetration issue. Alot of drow and demons at 20.
    Oh, I've dumped spell pen, so I'm not even trying with those, but the drow even save on my Cometfalls (no SR check), so I know I have a DC / gear problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    So yeah, work on your DCs to make CC work again?
    - use a destiny that adds to your main stat and DCs
    - use a sentient dagger that adds to your main stat and DCs
    - use twists that add to your main stat and DCs

    If all that fails, group up and play a healer.
    Thanks for the checklist, may seem obvious to some, but kinda useful when you first step into epics as a caster, and none of what you've used in heroics works anymore. On destinies though, I don't really want to be forced into EA as a melee toon, so probably it'll be just twists and filigrees (working on both).

    -----------

    I realized it'd probably be easier to provide advice if I list my current gear and relevant stats (beware: ultimate gimpness below):

    Weapon: Guardian of Liturgy (ML16, best dagger until ML23)
    Offhand: ML14 Cannith Crafted: Fort 90% of Kinetic Lore 13% (w/ Parrying+3 and Ruby of Impulse 66)
    Head: Halcyonia: Wisdom +6, Devotion +66, Healing Lore 14%, Heal +11, SP cost -5%
    Neck: Skirmisher's Locket: Dodge 8%
    Trinket: Slavers: Spell Pen +2, Wizardry +96, Deadly +4, Q. Fort +17%, Mythic +1, Sorcery set (3-piece, +1 to spell DCs)
    Cloak: ML20 Mimic, Fort +111%, DB,, PRR +24, DR 10/Law, Goo guard
    Belt: Slavers: Sheltering +12, Seeker +5, Spell DCs +2, Q.Wis +1, Mythic +1, Sorcery set (3-piece, +1 to spell DCs)
    Ring 1: Ring of Power: Q.Str +1, Command, Melee Alacrity +10%, Ins. Armor Piecing +3, Mythic +1, Sorcery set (3-piece, +1 to spell DCs)
    Ring 2: ML14 Cannith Crafted: +7 CON, +27 False Life, Master's Gift
    Gloves: Heroic Green Steel: Blindness immunity, +15 HP & +4 CON skills, +100 SP & +6 CHA skills, Concordant Opposition
    Boots: ML18 random-gen: Speed VIII, Diversion 10%
    Wrists: Bracers of Order and Chaos: Chaos & Law abs. +17%, Resistance +6, HAmp +30, Mythic +1, Good Luck +1 slotted
    Armor: Elocator's Halibment: +31 AC with Dex, Mobility, Attack +2, Displacement clickys + other useless stuff
    Goggles: useless random-gen with Ins. WIS +3

    I'm sitting at: 48 WIS (+5 tome), 84 PRR / 35 MRR, 139% fort. DCs (heightened) at 42, except Evocation 43, twisted Soundburst is at DC 50.

    I realize that a lot of the gear is outdated for the level, but not really sure where to go looking and where to start. For example, I can craft up to ML 18, would it be cost-efficient updating those crafted items etc.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Ausdoerrt; 06-18-2019 at 10:10 AM.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Just realized that I've posted in the cleric instead of FvS forum. D'oh! If the mods could move the thread, that'd be great.


    No, I have not, and in fact I haven't done them much at all, ever. Thanks for the tip.


    Could you elaborate on this? I did notice getting some crits, sitting at 139% fort. Do mobs have significant fort bypass?



    Oh, I've dumped spell pen, so I'm not even trying with those, but the drow even save on my Cometfalls (no SR check), so I know I have a DC / gear problem.



    Thanks for the checklist, may seem obvious to some, but kinda useful when you first step into epics as a caster, and none of what you've used in heroics works anymore. On destinies though, I don't really want to be forced into EA as a melee toon, so probably it'll be just twists and filigrees (working on both).

    -----------

    I realized it'd probably be easier to provide advice if I list my current gear and relevant stats (beware: ultimate gimpness below):

    Weapon: Guardian of Liturgy (ML16, best dagger until ML23)
    Offhand: ML14 Cannith Crafted: Fort 90% of Kinetic Lore 13% (w/ Parrying+3 and Ruby of Impulse 66)
    Head: Halcyonia: Wisdom +6, Devotion +66, Healing Lore 14%, Heal +11, SP cost -5%
    Neck: Skirmisher's Locket: Dodge 8%
    Trinket: Slavers: Spell Pen +2, Wizardry +96, Deadly +4, Q. Fort +17%, Mythic +1, Sorcery set (3-piece, +1 to spell DCs)
    Cloak: ML20 Mimic, Fort +111%, DB,, PRR +24, DR 10/Law, Goo guard
    Belt: Slavers: Sheltering +12, Seeker +5, Spell DCs +2, Q.Wis +1, Mythic +1, Sorcery set (3-piece, +1 to spell DCs)
    Ring 1: Ring of Power: Q.Str +1, Command, Melee Alacrity +10%, Ins. Armor Piecing +3, Mythic +1, Sorcery set (3-piece, +1 to spell DCs)
    Ring 2: ML14 Cannith Crafted: +7 CON, +27 False Life, Master's Gift
    Gloves: Heroic Green Steel: Blindness immunity, +15 HP & +4 CON skills, +100 SP & +6 CHA skills, Concordant Opposition
    Boots: ML18 random-gen: Speed VIII, Diversion 10%
    Wrists: Bracers of Order and Chaos: Chaos & Law abs. +17%, Resistance +6, HAmp +30, Mythic +1, Good Luck +1 slotted
    Armor: Elocator's Halibment: +31 AC with Dex, Mobility, Attack +2, Displacement clickys + other useless stuff
    Goggles: useless random-gen with Ins. WIS +3

    I'm sitting at: 48 WIS (+5 tome), 84 PRR / 35 MRR, 139% fort. DCs (heightened) at 42, except Evocation 43, twisted Soundburst is at DC 50.

    I realize that a lot of the gear is outdated for the level, but not really sure where to go looking and where to start. For example, I can craft up to ML 18, would it be cost-efficient updating those crafted items etc.

    Thanks!
    U don t need past lives. U need better gear
    U need any form of cc if u want to do ee solo without u die
    Soundburst. Is your main cc max it

    First u need maxed main stat so craft at least a lvl 18 and 23 item with wisdom and insightfull wisdom ( i use google)
    Then max prr/mrr and constitution with cc item

    Then use all sharn item lvl 15 (flamecleanse or hruuit set)
    The dagger fron impossible demand is very good for trash and get sentience

    What epic destiny u running? U can do well in primal avatar if 2wf

    Or u use single weapon fighting? In that case combo are less favorable u need absolutely your cc spell to work.

    Then even if i can i usually avoid to solo ee why u dont group?8
    Last edited by Alled78; 06-18-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips.

    It's become clear that I do need the Sharn gear. Sadly, 7 runs of Blown Deadline got me exactly 0 named drops, so I guess the search goes on - for both the Flamecleansed bracers and the goggles that can be upgraded to +8 WIS +3 Ins.WIS. After that, I'll see what I need to and can recraft, since I don't (yet) have enough crafting level to do insightful or items above ML18.

    I'm doing SWF for now bcs I like the animation better, but may switch to TWF after an ETR at 30, if SWF doesn't work out for me. I'm basically working on leveling all the destinies now, to at least qualify for the Destiny Feats I want. Not sure what the ultimate goal would be, probably Divine Crusader.

    For the record, I solo because 1) I kinda like to solo; 2) I play European times on Khyber, not much grouping other than the occasional Von 3 / WizKing / Spies, and I'd like to experience all content.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  8. #8
    Community Member DaviMOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post


    Could you elaborate on this? I did notice getting some crits, sitting at 139% fort. Do mobs have significant fort bypass?
    Not much to be said. As soon as you hit 20 the fortification requirements seems to jump up to nearly 200% even so no new ways to get extra fort are added at this range. Those hobgoblins using scimitars on sentinels and FR drows in general ( from ES chain for example) seems to have some extra fortification bypass, also those low epics white plume quests mobs in general does land alot of devasting criticals too. As a mainly melee player( read not tank) that's an old grip of mine about early epics. Best you can do is to deal with it(sadly) or pursue crafted insightful or the rare heroic named ones that does get you above 100%.

    We all have reasons to solo from time to time. Personally i think this game got overbalanced around ranged and tanks. Seems to me mobs hits hard this much to bring challenge to who plays stuff like endless fusilade, sorcs and insta/cc casters but they forgot melees relys on a sustained/endured fight. whining /off.
    Last edited by DaviMOC; 06-19-2019 at 06:44 AM.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaviMOC View Post
    We all have reasons to solo from time to time. Personally i think this game got overbalanced around ranged and tanks. Seems to me mobs hits hard this much to bring challenge to who plays stuff like endless fusilade, sorcs and insta/cc casters but they forgot melees relys on a sustained/endured fight. whining /off.
    More like, around the people with thousands of extra HP in reaper mode.

    And thanks for the info on fort, I'll need to work on that, as well.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    More like, around the people with thousands of extra HP in reaper mode.
    It's just time. Gear and build knowledge come with it, as do reaper points and past lives and DDO points to buy tomes. Don't be in too much of a hurry to not have any possible way of improving your character... Maybe you can adapt this:

    Race: Warforged
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Class: 20 FvS

    Stats (assumes +7 tomes)
    Strength............9
    Dexterity...........14
    Constitution.......14
    Intelligence.........14
    Wisdom.............16+ levels
    Charisma............9

    Level Progression:

    FvS Feats: Vol, Knowledge of Battle, Stout of Heart
    Heroic Feats: Weapon Stylex3, Quicken, Adamantine Body, Heighten, Evo Focus
    Epic Feats: IC:Pierce, BoGW, Force, Precision, Mass Frog, Dire Charge, Reincarnate (OC + Arborea)

    Epic Leveling in Shadow Dancer, Shiradi, Fatesinger, and DC
    Twists: Wild Shots, Evo Magistar, Evo Draconic, Sense Weakness

    AP
    41 Inq (35 RP) (4 Wis )
    25 Falconry (No Mercyx3, KTAx2, 3 RP)
    12 VKF Fan of Knives, Weapon Versatility (deflect arrows)
    2 + 12 racial + 2 tome Warforged (Veteran 15 RP + 25 USP)

    Level 20 Gear set:

    Weapon: https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sacrificial_Dagger w/ Sentience 45 RP (Augment Devotion)
    Offhand: Dagger or Orb based on style
    Goggles: Dusk Lenses https://ddowiki.com/page/Itemusk_Lenses (Augment Fear Immune)
    Helm Canith Crafting (CC) Sheltering, Accuracy, Ins. Phys Sheltering
    Necklace (CC) Evocation Focus, Repair Spell Power, Ins. Con
    Trinket (CC) Kinetic Lore, Deadly, Ins. Deadly
    Armor: Enigma Core https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Enigma_Core (Augment Deathblock)
    Cloak (CC) Wisdom, Dodge, Ins. Wisdom
    Bracer: Aetherband https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Aetherband (Augment Master's Gift)
    Belt: Black Satin Waist Belt https://ddowiki.com/page/Black_Satin_Waist (Finished: Qual Wis)
    Ring 1 Brazenband https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Brazenband
    Boots (CC) Spellsight Parrying Insightful Spellsight
    Gloves (CC) Impulse, Repair Amp, Ins. Impulse
    Ring 2 https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:The_Shattered_Onyx
    Quiver: Dynamistic https://ddowiki.com/page/Itemynamistic_Quiver

    Sockets: Con, Deathblock, Fear immune, Devotion (in weapon), Master's Gift, Exceptional Wisdom, Globe, Dex, Resistance, Evo Int,

    -------------------------------- Stats outside of reaper, no consumables ------------------------------
    Soundburst DC @20: 62
    5 Twists
    1 SF:Evo
    4 Enhancement
    2 Insight
    1 Quality
    2 Artifact
    1 Profane
    19 base+heighten (heighten only if you need it)
    23 Wisdom
    3 Past life
    1 Augment

    Wisdom @ 20 = 57
    7 Tome
    16 base
    5 levels
    2 artifact
    9 enhancement
    4 insightful
    1 Quality
    1 Exceptional
    2 ship
    2 racial past life
    2 racial completionist
    1 Falconry
    4 Inquisitor
    1 Reaper

    127+ RP @ 20
    3 Tome
    45 sentience
    35 Inquisitor
    3 Falconry
    15 Warforged
    2 Quiver
    24+ Epic Destiny

    Helpless @20 115%
    30 Falconry
    30 Sense Weakness
    5% Ship

    Spell Power @20 304
    111 Enhancement
    55 Insight
    25 Artifact
    50 Spellcraft
    8 Exceptional
    25 Warforged
    27 Implement
    3 Falconry

    Spell Crit @20 24%
    16 Lore
    3 Exceptional Lore
    5 Magical Training

    Base Abilities @20:
    Fan of Knives 5-8 x 20 levels = 130 base
    Wild Shots 20d20 = 210 base (ED patch to make it scale with ranged power)

    Ability Scaling = x 4.04 (spell power) x 1.24 (spell crit) x 2.15 (soundburst + helpless) x 3.54+ (Ranged Power) = x38

    Will have 5k AoE FoK and 8k AoE Wild Shots after patch, Wild shots will hit for 2.2k before patch.
    Both will grow with spell power, ranged power, and spell crit as you level, and FoK will also grow with damage die as you level

    FoK and Wild Shots are your cleaves, and will AoE 2 shot helpless trash on EE
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-19-2019 at 01:13 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member DaviMOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post

    good and detailed build advice
    I love how til gets deep on those. I hardly manage to keep up sometimes XD

  12. #12
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Thanks for the brekdown. Makes it clear what I have, what can / should be chased immediately, and what can be filed under "never gonna happen". This isn't my main, I just want a playable toon to keep in epics while I do the heroic train on other alts - so I'm willing to grind gear, but not so much pastlives.

    Also looks like I'm more or less spot on with my Wisdom score (multiple completionists aside), so I clearly gotta work on that DC gear. The issue is that I'm pretty much wearing what that linked paladin is wearing at level 10.

    A few questions though:

    - Do spell focus augments stack with spell focus items / feats?
    - What is water stance? Or typo?

    Also thanks for editing that "just better geared" comment, I was just about to point out at least half of the stuff you listed comes from multiple pastlives and other grinds
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Thanks for the brekdown.

    - Do spell focus augments stack with spell focus items / feats?
    - What is water stance? Or typo?

    Also thanks for editing that "just better geared" comment,
    YW,

    Yes augment
    Typo on stance since I copied this from my clonkcher build

    Yea, my bad, sometimes I forget the decade of fun to max out a character.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 06-19-2019 at 01:40 PM.

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