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  1. #1
    Community Member mistress_minx's Avatar
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    Default End Fights That Need Tweaking - Scaling seems way off

    There are two quests which I think need some serious tweaking, as they seem to be 20 times harder than the rest of the quests in their entirety.

    1) is TOEE Pt 2 end fight. Come on !!! It is stupid hard to complete, even with a full party

    2) is Toxic Treatment. Same opinion as above.

    Are there any other quests where the end fight is much harder than the rest of the quest (as in, 'seems to have scaling way off') and what are tips for completing these ? For the two that I mentioned; we went in with full parties, who died about 25 times each. At least. We used Jibbers, Cakes, and finally got fed up and started releasing to return with fixed gear. At that point, we were all just ****ed off and wanted to finish, even if we got zero xp for leaving too many times. I'm not sure if we actually completed either of them or not, but I don't think we did

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistress_minx View Post
    There are two quests which I think need some serious tweaking, as they seem to be 20 times harder than the rest of the quests in their entirety.

    1) is TOEE Pt 2 end fight. Come on !!! It is stupid hard to complete, even with a full party

    2) is Toxic Treatment. Same opinion as above.

    Are there any other quests where the end fight is much harder than the rest of the quest (as in, 'seems to have scaling way off') and what are tips for completing these ? For the two that I mentioned; we went in with full parties, who died about 25 times each. At least. We used Jibbers, Cakes, and finally got fed up and started releasing to return with fixed gear. At that point, we were all just ****ed off and wanted to finish, even if we got zero xp for leaving too many times. I'm not sure if we actually completed either of them or not, but I don't think we did
    ToEE2 is just particularly bad because of earthquake. KD immunity and good balance helps. The rest of the fight is not really anything off.

    Toxic Treatment end fight gets messy if you just go all out on the boss without keeping an eye out on spawns. Zaps from evil eyes have always hurt regardless of content, deal with it before it deals with you, then get back to the beholder. YMMV depending on party make up.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
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  3. #3
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    TOEE pt 2 - End fight

    Things that help here:
    1. Spell Resistance
    2. Spell Absorption
    3. Balance
    4. Teamwork in calling out the Mushrooms

    Toxic Treatment

    Things that help here:
    1. Remember the Beholder is the least dangerous thing in the room
    2. Eyes die when blinded (Glitter dust and sun burst as well as other blindness effects)
    3. When the bipeds die they spawn 2 eyes, DON"T KILL MULTIPLE BIPEDS
    4. There are three waves of spawns, handle each wave, drop Beholder health to increments of 25%ish percent, kill wave, rinse repeat

  4. #4
    I <3 DDO rfachini's Avatar
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    I agree and I would add Dreaming Dark to the list.
    Slavers quests are also ones that are much tougher than others at the same level.

    These are all quests that I either avoid, do at higher-than-level, or do on lower difficulties. It's a bit of a shame since otherwise I like the quests.
    Ghallanda: Vilas, Alphon, Whelm, Thaylan, Tyclmi, Amgine, Talc, Dedlee, Payle, Darell, Talenta, Zhen, Thrane, Arrith, Durdyn, Magefyre, Necrophil, Tulgey, Borogove, Hasugi, Shawal, Hailestorm, Branthan, Lightningbug, Bettercall, Elecktric, Zardu, Zergworthy, BrotherOf, Missadventer, Bytemy, Demogeorgia, Tizen (33) Sarlona: (7) Cannith: (2)

  5. #5
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Let me throw in a vote for the Spinner Of Shadows with her fountain of endless Hezzrou.
    Nowhere nearly as challenging as the first two called out but, oy, Spinny has a lot of friends in low places. (This used to only happen in Heroic but my last run in epics showed the same issue a couple weeks ago.)
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfachini View Post
    I agree and I would add Dreaming Dark to the list.
    Slavers quests are also ones that are much tougher than others at the same level.

    These are all quests that I either avoid, do at higher-than-level, or do on lower difficulties. It's a bit of a shame since otherwise I like the quests.
    DD has been around since cap20 and has been relatively manageable, not too sure what issues you have with it. If you want a quest that's really off the scale for level the only quest I can immediately quote is Tower of Frost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    Let me throw in a vote for the Spinner Of Shadows with her fountain of endless Hezzrou.
    Nowhere nearly as challenging as the first two called out but, oy, Spinny has a lot of friends in low places. (This used to only happen in Heroic but my last run in epics showed the same issue a couple weeks ago.)
    Hezrous do get out of hand sometimes but I guess that also depends on what party you go in with, I've had at level parties that went fine and some slightly above level runs getting messy.
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
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  7. #7
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    I'll throw in a classic...Reaver's is bad about this in a couple quests

  8. #8
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    ToEE pt. 2 is horrendous. There are so many things that make that fight rage worthy that I agree with the OP. If Lag doesn't get you. Being on the wrong side of room can. Then you have the NPC's and spells to deal with. Did I mention "rage worthy" yet?!?!?

    Toxic Treatment on the other hand I feel is about strategy. I honestly felt like you on my first few completions. It felt totally random to me which times I successfully beat it. In some respects it still does. Though by using pillars and movement it reduces many of my failures. Or prioritizing eyes > "bi-peds" (thanks, Enoach) > boss. I've been in groups who try to DPS the boss down first and clean up afterwards. It's messy to say the least. "Killing as you go" for this one makes for the smoothest runs, IMO.

    Spinner of Shadows honestly is easy. Then again I use her AI against her (after the patch that "fixed" her AI which simply forced me to change locations) so there is that. It allows me to solo (with a high degree of success) or keep her busy while my teammates collect the crystals. Although I will admit that no matter how many times I say, "Keep a wide distance from the center" some party member invariable heads straight for the middle at some point while I am keeping the spinner occupied. I guess the only way to learn that lesson is to repeatedly die horrible deaths from getting anywhere near the middle.

    Dreaming Dark is BS for at level. Even over level I occasionally get incapacitated from the charisma drain (think that is the correct stat He attacks). Solo it is miserable. Group, or over level, is fine but not great. Then again, it was an extremely challenging when it was released. Should look at some of the forum posts back during its release And there was no ED's or twists to help you.

    Tower of Frost is another BS for at level. Which is sad, it was the first quest Cordovan narrated and he will forever be tied to this horrendous adventure. Then again, it is only the last two floors that annoy/anger/frustrate me to call BS on.

    I'm sure I would include Reaver's Refuge but I have yet to finish all 4 adventures in that pack. From all reports, it kills lvl 30's which i have witnessed (I was one of those lvl 30's).
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  9. #9
    Community Member DANTEIL's Avatar
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    I'm sure everyone has their own personal quests that they could add to this list (yes, on ToEE2!), but for me, I would have to say the Enter the Kobold endfight has always seemed way out of whack compared to the rest of the quest.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbyssalMage View Post
    Dreaming Dark is BS for at level. Even over level I occasionally get incapacitated from the charisma drain (think that is the correct stat He attacks). Solo it is miserable. Group, or over level, is fine but not great. Then again, it was an extremely challenging when it was released. Should look at some of the forum posts back during its release And there was no ED's or twists to help you.
    Yeah stat damage is one of the toughest mechanics since there's no defense against it except spamming Restoration pots, or similar pots, none of which are vendor-sold. Maybe you could scroll it now at least with the change to Concentration, but then that's a lot slower if you're waiting for Helpless to wear off and trying to squeeze it in before you get CHA damaged again. And DD is super cheesy about attacking your CHA, which is a dump stat for a lot of builds. Is there even a save associated with their CHA-damage attack?

    That all being said, the DD final boss is a purple name, so I feel at least thats the devs acknowledging its an abnormally difficult fight.

  11. #11
    Community Member mistress_minx's Avatar
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    Thank you all very much for your advice on how to complete these ends fights, and for insights to others that seem off scale as well. It's helpful to know how to prepare, or if you should wait till over-level, or if you should just avoid it like the plague until you earn some wings and completionist bonuses. I very much appreciate it, and I hope that other non-vets will also gain some wisdom from all of you and your advice.

  12. #12
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
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    Dimension door makes the end fight of TOEE part 2 trivial.
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  13. #13
    Community Member mistress_minx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    Dimension door makes the end fight of TOEE part 2 trivial.
    How so ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistress_minx View Post
    How so ?
    I too am intrigued.

  15. #15
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    Dimension door makes the end fight of TOEE part 2 trivial.
    Quote Originally Posted by mistress_minx View Post
    How so ?
    Quote Originally Posted by MaeveTuohy View Post
    I too am intrigued.
    From following previous threads dealing with Reaper difficulty, it (is/may be/possibly is) an exploit. My personal opinion from those discussions though is that it is an exploit.
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  16. #16
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    Dimension door makes it easier (some of the demons teleport out so you can fight them separately) but not trivial (as far as I know - there may be another trick).

    It's still tough at level, and takes a long time.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistress_minx View Post
    There are two quests which I think need some serious tweaking, as they seem to be 20 times harder than the rest of the quests in their entirety.

    1) is TOEE Pt 2 end fight. Come on !!! It is stupid hard to complete, even with a full party

    2) is Toxic Treatment. Same opinion as above.

    Are there any other quests where the end fight is much harder than the rest of the quest (as in, 'seems to have scaling way off') and what are tips for completing these ? For the two that I mentioned; we went in with full parties, who died about 25 times each. At least. We used Jibbers, Cakes, and finally got fed up and started releasing to return with fixed gear. At that point, we were all just ****ed off and wanted to finish, even if we got zero xp for leaving too many times. I'm not sure if we actually completed either of them or not, but I don't think we did
    Toee is not a regular quest is more like a 6 man raid.
    Same for dreaming dark


    Toxic treatment. Is more difficult than other quests yes


    But i like the difficulties of these quest.

    Dont change. It please.

    U can play normal. I know they are easy on normal
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  18. #18
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    I guess I have a different perspective, in that I get annoyed when the end fight is stupid easy compared to other parts of the quest. To me, that's when the scaling seems off. An end fight should be hard, since it's the boss.

    That said, I get that it's annoying to go through the entire dungeon and wipe at the end. I like it when if the party wipes, they are within range of or get teleported to a shrine so they can regroup and try again, especially when it's a longer and/or tougher quest.
    Graceana, assassin ~ Xiya, tempest ~ Shinshi, shintao ~ Ayaxi, thief-acrobat ~ Saravi, cleric ~ Sanziana, arcane archer ~ Kyudojin, mechanic
    Talvi, caster druid ~ Zinzie, shiradi sorc ~ Kishori, spellsinger ~ Faunia, wolf druid ~ Viven, warchanter ~ Jianqiao, ninja spy
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistress_minx View Post
    1) is TOEE Pt 2 end fight. Come on !!! It is stupid hard to complete, even with a full party
    never done ToEE

    Quote Originally Posted by mistress_minx View Post
    2) is Toxic Treatment. Same opinion as above.
    totally disagree. one of the easiest endfights.
    always take care of trash. mass frog them, then throw a holy smite. done.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by spodey View Post
    totally disagree. one of the easiest endfights.
    always take care of trash. mass frog them, then throw a holy smite. done.
    This is certainly excellent advice for people doing it at-level heroic.
    Graceana, assassin ~ Xiya, tempest ~ Shinshi, shintao ~ Ayaxi, thief-acrobat ~ Saravi, cleric ~ Sanziana, arcane archer ~ Kyudojin, mechanic
    Talvi, caster druid ~ Zinzie, shiradi sorc ~ Kishori, spellsinger ~ Faunia, wolf druid ~ Viven, warchanter ~ Jianqiao, ninja spy
    Cliodna, wizard ~ Serenwyn, swashbuckler ~ Duisteri, shuribuild ~ Mahuika, warlock ~ Narabali, tank ~ Tabbithah, artificer
    The Casual Obsession
    Khyber

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Helmet View Post
    Honestly, I am glad to say I will save money and save it for my kid... at least Legos do not change overnight so that the pieces don't fit together anymore..

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