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  1. #1
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    Default Sad Esoteric Warforgeds

    Is there any particular reason why the legendary Esoteric set cloth is stronger than the docent?
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
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    The DDO Dev Team (artist's rendering).

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    I would guess there is only one set bonus, but the descriptions on one or the other (or both) might be wrong

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    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    The DDO Dev Team (artist's rendering).

    is that a Paul Kidby one? looks like his style
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by askrj1 View Post
    Is there any particular reason why the legendary Esoteric set cloth is stronger than the docent?
    How so? They look almost identical to me.
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    The Esoteric Docent is still stronger than the Esoteric Leather armor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    How so? They look almost identical to me.
    Currently on live Order's Garb has 30ExSP/15ExLore, Enigma Core only has 20/10

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    The Esoteric Docent is still stronger than the Esoteric Leather armor.
    Unless that outfit is made of leather I have no idea what armour you're talking about...
    Very much like my favourite weapon, the quarterstaff, I am a blunt instrument, as are my words.
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  8. #8
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    The bonuses in question are part of the armor and not the set. Presumably it's because wf likely will go with mithral and adamantine plating which provides a magical sheltering cap benefit.

    No healing or repair amp makes me sad.

    I dislike the esoteric set in general because without collective sight getting all the stats is hard and the lore bonus is typed as exceptional and doesn't stack with clouded dreams - the only caster set not to stack with it I believe.

  9. #9
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The bonuses in question are part of the armor and not the set. Presumably it's because wf likely will go with mithral and adamantine plating which provides a magical sheltering cap benefit.

    No healing or repair amp makes me sad.

    I dislike the esoteric set in general because without collective sight getting all the stats is hard and the lore bonus is typed as exceptional and doesn't stack with clouded dreams - the only caster set not to stack with it I believe.
    ^This^

    It's not hard for a warforged to cancel out the arcane spell failure from adamantine body, giving them some extra PRR and removing the MRR cap; most wizards and sorcerers are going to delve into the EK tree, anyway, to get some defenses and ASF reduction is part and parcel of the EK tree. Warforged get to use whatever set they want with whatever armor type they want (aside from medium).

    And yes, the inability to use the community-made goggles with the esoteric set is another no-go, for me. I'll wait and see what this light armor casting set is next update.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    I would guess there is only one set bonus, but the descriptions on one or the other (or both) might be wrong
    Nothing to do with set bonuses, its the armor's bonuses that's not balanced

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    How so? They look almost identical to me.
    Refer to the screenshots

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    The Esoteric Docent is still stronger than the Esoteric Leather armor.
    You have absolutely no clue what the hell you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The bonuses in question are part of the armor and not the set. Presumably it's because wf likely will go with mithral and adamantine plating which provides a magical sheltering cap benefit.

    No healing or repair amp makes me sad.

    I dislike the esoteric set in general because without collective sight getting all the stats is hard and the lore bonus is typed as exceptional and doesn't stack with clouded dreams - the only caster set not to stack with it I believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    ^This^

    It's not hard for a warforged to cancel out the arcane spell failure from adamantine body, giving them some extra PRR and removing the MRR cap; most wizards and sorcerers are going to delve into the EK tree, anyway, to get some defenses and ASF reduction is part and parcel of the EK tree. Warforged get to use whatever set they want with whatever armor type they want (aside from medium).

    And yes, the inability to use the community-made goggles with the esoteric set is another no-go, for me. I'll wait and see what this light armor casting set is next update.
    And lastly, you two have no idea what's wrong. It has nothing to do with the set bonus, PRR/MRR, or ASF.

    Esoteric -CLOTH- armor
    NOTE THE PORTION IN THE RED BOX
    EXCEPTIONAL UNIVERSAL SPELL POWER - 30
    EXCEPTIONAL SPELL LORE - 15
    This is INCREASED from the test server preview #2 version of 20 USP and 10 spell lore


    Esoteric -DOCENT-
    AGAIN, NOTE THE PORTION IN THE RED BOX
    EXCEPTIONAL UNIVERSAL SPELL POWER - 20
    EXCEPTIONAL SPELL LORE - 10
    This is the SAME amount as stated in the test server preview #2 version


    Pretty red boxes highlighting the differences for those who have issues with reading & comprehension.


    @Lynnabel - Is this working as intended? Or did docents get left out in the last tweaks before launch?

    Warforged are already left out from missing docents for the Flamecleansed and Hruit sets, now this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xvkr View Post
    And lastly, you two have no idea what's wrong. It has nothing to do with the set bonus, PRR/MRR, or ASF.

    Pretty red boxes highlighting the differences for those who have issues with reading & comprehension.
    Before you go off on your high horse about people not knowing what they are talking about and reading comprehension you should re-read what I said. I specifically said it was on the armor and not part of the set bonus and I speculated as to the reasons why - then listed other reasons why I didn't like the set.

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The bonuses in question are part of the armor and not the set. Presumably it's because wf likely will go with mithral and adamantine plating which provides a magical sheltering cap benefit.

    No healing or repair amp makes me sad.

    I dislike the esoteric set in general because without collective sight getting all the stats is hard and the lore bonus is typed as exceptional and doesn't stack with clouded dreams - the only caster set not to stack with it I believe.
    Read and comprehend please.

  12. #12
    Community Member HastyPudding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xvkr View Post
    And lastly, you two have no idea what's wrong. It has nothing to do with the set bonus, PRR/MRR, or ASF.

    Esoteric -CLOTH- armor
    NOTE THE PORTION IN THE RED BOX
    EXCEPTIONAL UNIVERSAL SPELL POWER - 30
    EXCEPTIONAL SPELL LORE - 15
    This is INCREASED from the test server preview #2 version of 20 USP and 10 spell lore


    Esoteric -DOCENT-
    AGAIN, NOTE THE PORTION IN THE RED BOX
    EXCEPTIONAL UNIVERSAL SPELL POWER - 20
    EXCEPTIONAL SPELL LORE - 10
    This is the SAME amount as stated in the test server preview #2 version


    Pretty red boxes highlighting the differences for those who have issues with reading & comprehension.


    @Lynnabel - Is this working as intended? Or did docents get left out in the last tweaks before launch?

    Warforged are already left out from missing docents for the Flamecleansed and Hruit sets, now this?
    The pretty red boxes should be working as intended, ya silly cow. Warforged can adapt to different armor types far better than fleshies (especially as an arcane). That's why the docent is weaker than the robe in the set built pretty much for generalist/DC casting and part of the reason why the set has no light armor option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by askrj1 View Post
    Is there any particular reason why the legendary Esoteric set cloth is stronger than the docent?
    Its not that the cloth is stronger, its that the devs intentionally shaft forges by making docents inferior in comparison to armors across the board.
    at some point years ago they started making conscious choices to neuter docents relative to what is supposed to be comparable armor.


    /rant
    Forges get shafted on repair amp different bonus type stack items..

    They still haven't resolved the mithral/adamantine issue which directly impacts forges now that mithral is treated as the lighter version instead of medium with lighter weight and penalty properties.
    This results in forges not having a medium armor option at all.. and forges have to spend a feat to select the inferior body types when compared to armors.

    Forges have inferior dodge caps when using a docent vs armors.

    I really wished they had introduced 'unarmored body' - strips the plating from the forge removing the docent option but now allowing them to wear armor like any other fleshy.
    /rant off
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Before you go off on your high horse about people not knowing what they are talking about and reading comprehension you should re-read what I said. I specifically said it was on the armor and not part of the set bonus and I speculated as to the reasons why - then listed other reasons why I didn't like the set.

    Read and comprehend please.
    I actually skipped over your post, my bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by HastyPudding View Post
    The pretty red boxes should be working as intended, ya silly cow. Warforged can adapt to different armor types far better than fleshies (especially as an arcane). That's why the docent is weaker than the robe in the set built pretty much for generalist/DC casting and part of the reason why the set has no light armor option.
    That may have been true years ago, but not in the current state of DDO. Warforged still have to deal with NO FREE FEAT for any sort of armor beyond your base composite. On top of which, warforged are left out of TWO sets in the current expansion. Not one, TWO. While -ALL- other non-warforged races have a full selection. Why not mess with elves as well, as they have https://ddowiki.com/page/Elven_Arcane_Fluidity this to make up for armor ASF as well, hey?

    Not to mention, there is STILL NO medium armor option for warforged, which forces you to take light armor for less (or even no bonus) from any of the 'in medium armor' enhancements.

    I would agree to the weaker docent -IF- warforged had access to the Flamecleansed or Hruit's sets. Right now the Esoteric set is the ONLY caster warforged set, and having lower bonuses even when its your only set is frankly ridiculous.


    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Its not that the cloth is stronger, its that the devs intentionally shaft forges by making docents inferior in comparison to armors across the board.
    at some point years ago they started making conscious choices to neuter docents relative to what is supposed to be comparable armor.

    /rant
    Forges get shafted on repair amp different bonus type stack items..

    They still haven't resolved the mithral/adamantine issue which directly impacts forges now that mithral is treated as the lighter version instead of medium with lighter weight and penalty properties.
    This results in forges not having a medium armor option at all.. and forges have to spend a feat to select the inferior body types when compared to armors.

    Forges have inferior dodge caps when using a docent vs armors.

    I really wished they had introduced 'unarmored body' - strips the plating from the forge removing the docent option but now allowing them to wear armor like any other fleshy.
    /rant off
    Its silly watching forumites still think that warforged are still 'enjoying' the benefits of bugs and/or bad design decisions from almost 5 years back. Not to mention being left out of a number of sets and/or set bonuses just 'because'.

    Pretty much the equivalent of people thinking that some epic destinies like GMOF (not the refreshed version in testing) is still the best thing ever when everyone just runs LD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    The Esoteric Docent is still stronger than the Esoteric Leather armor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xvkr View Post
    You have absolutely no clue what the hell you're talking about.
    I suspect Quantum's point is that there IS no leather armor, even though there should be.
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