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Thread: Super Mario DDO

  1. #1
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    Default Super Mario DDO

    This is a heart felt plea from a maladroit. Can you please restrict the number of quests where there is a mandatory considerable jumping element? I have now had to add Smash and Burn to my list of never run again quests to join such luminaries as Newcomers and The Price of Freedom.

    I have now run Smash and Burn twice, my jump was 40+, and it has taken me almost an hour each time to complete the final room (similar to the Mario room in Newcomers). For those of us with adverse medical conditions or poor hand/eye co-ordination these types of quests are difficult but more importantly extremely frustrating.

  2. #2
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    I get your frustration as I have a small number of quests that I also don't entirely care for. With that said it is critically important that DDO quest developers use all ideas within their capability to generate dungeons that are different and in some cases very different from each other. This creates variety of questing, if one comes out once in awhile I don't care for then for me that is OK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedip View Post
    Can you please restrict the number of quests where there is a mandatory considerable jumping element?
    Aren't they already doing this though? As far as I can recall, Smash and Burn is the only quest out of Sharn's 17 quests to have a significant mario element. Also, it isn't really mandatory in Smash and Burn either. You can ignore the puzzle room completely and still complete the quest and get your XP and Favor (have to do it to get the end chest though).

    I get why mario stuff is really not liked by some players, that's understandable. But others like it so I want them to include it sometimes. Personally, I like platforming sometimes in DDO quests. So I think their current approach of putting a bit of it in here and there works well.
    Last edited by axel15810; 06-13-2019 at 10:43 AM.

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    Alternate routes in the spirit of DnD?

    I really dont like gates that are only keyed for example, with some additional effort we should be able to deal with most doors, and locked chests. For vertical instances this could mean some ladders, other climbing elements, air jets that actually work in a consistent way :P, and others...

    Too many effects are binary, where ideally the outcome should be on a scale...

    And dont get me started on the crippled Bluff skill :d.

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    In general, we tend to avoid keyboard-skill-heavy requirements for a main-path completion of a quest.
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    The Action-RPG genre critically killed all other means to solve things than/apart of combat.

    And action games in general ... For my personal taste, these days are *far* too many "killing games" out there. The Adventure Games genre, the Jump & Run genre ... there are so many genres that have died out, thanks to the big company catering only to those who buy what sells well ...

    I sorely miss ye olde days of the 90s, where was was SO MUCH MORE diversity in genres ...

    Looks like we have our Cambrian Explosion of video gaming behind us.
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    I guess I'm a minority here, but I enjoy the fact that DDO is a 3-dimensional game that utilizes the 3D space. The fact that jumping is not just a 'thing', but a meaningful one that is useful, was a big draw for me and increases my enjoyment of the game.

    One of my friends recently started to play (he comes from lots of shooters and real time tactical pvp games) and while he had to admit he wasn't good at the jumping parts yet, the fact that there was some jump accuracy sections combined with the ledge grab and pull up on a near miss elicited an out loud "oh cool!" from him.

    I know it's impossible to make everyone happy, but please do not remove 3D aspects from this 3D game. If anything, I'd encourage (and hope) for more OPTIONS for how to complete objectives. Player choice on jumping/using the terrain, combat, sneaking, puzzles, etc. Not one and only one with different quests featuring different ones (how things mostly are atm), but multiple choices for each objective in each quest... but definitely NOT (oh my goodness please no) removing one entirely form the game.

    (though if I had to choose between how things are now (mostly one way but different quests will (sometimes) feature a different way) vs removing an option from the game entirely for how to achieve success, I'll choose the former... but as I do now, still hope and wish for more options and variety to be introduced moving forwards)
    Last edited by vryxnr; 06-13-2019 at 02:23 PM.

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    DDO is the only MMO I know that has precision-based jumping in some quests. Personally, as a 50 year old DM I dread it, not being ultra quick on the jump key, especially with the lag and rubber banding in the game. I hate the Mario Party Spies in the House quest and just lie asleep on the bottom floor when it is run as part of the dailies.

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    I'm among the biggest opponents of platforming in DDO level design, so I'm glad to hear its something that's being deliberately avoided in required content.

    That being said, I didnt find Smash and Burn to be onerously platformy. Having high Jump and Feather Fall is not an outlandish expectation, I think. And once you've learned the proper jump route, I think there's only 1 jump that's actually tricky - and its the first one, jumping from the ramp to the first platform, so if you miss it you havent lost much.

    All the other jumps have a wall or something as a backstop, so you cant overshoot it, or at least have a pretty wide and forgiving "landing zone", e.g. jumping to the gears. My big problem with platforming elements is when the landing site is very narrow, and its difficult to gauge where exactly you're coming down, especially with the microlag many people experience while jumping. The small platforms in S&B all have chains reaching up to the ceiling, so you can use those to guide your descent down onto the platform.

    The only other jump that's given me trouble is the one from the first platform against the wall, over the doorway, to the other platform. Its kind of a long jump, and the stutter sometimes makes it so it doesnt register enough forward motion to make it across - or registers the jump too late, and you fall off. But that's a problem with the engine, not with the level design.

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    I had a really good time in the jump room in Smash and Burn, personally. I totally get why some people don't like it, though. When I played on a sketchier computer, jump quests were seriously rage-inducing for me, and I usually just piked them because they were actually impossible. I think having jumpy parts that aren't required to complete the quest is a great compromise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    In general, we tend to avoid keyboard-skill-heavy requirements for a main-path completion of a quest.
    you should make that quest completion and reward. I had a similar post started last week about Smash... I am unable to get to the end reward due to the level of jumping and coordination required. I have a disability that affects my hands and makes this EXTREMELY difficult, and knowing that I will not be able to get to the end loot/reward turns a fun quest into complete frustration and disgust... How hard would it be to put a ladder in for the end chest?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    In general, we tend to avoid keyboard-skill-heavy requirements for a main-path completion of a quest.
    A "rope" mechanic that would allow one person to complete the jumping and assist the other party members to join them would be optimal. Preferably the mechanic would include getting the one party member that the Spies air Jets hate up to the upper level. Before the other party members disconnect from inactivity waiting for them.
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  13. #13
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    I don't like Mario stuff as general rule, either - partly because my computer is still one of those older sketchier models making jumping a turkey shoot on where I land.

    However, I do applaud the use of the mechanical features as climbable except for that one thing that wasn't solid so you fall thru if you jump to it. [I think it was ropes or something.] That's almost as irritating as invisible walls.

    I was so used to ambient features being just fluff that I didn't even try climbing on the gears for a long time.
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    Maybe add a ladder once you solve the puzzles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicstorms View Post
    Maybe add a ladder once you solve the puzzles?
    ^ This would be a wonderful compromise. Fosters grouping Allows all players to reach the chest.

    ...and I am not the only person who hates these style of quests. Thought I was an anomaly.
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    I'll chime in on the side of people who like 3-dimensional quests and think that The Pit is one of the best-designed quests in DDO

    I understand that some people may have difficulty with them or find them frustrating, but verticality is one of DDO's unique features found in few other MMOs (maybe Aion comes to mind, but DDO feels much smoother / less clunky). It's like asking the devs to remove all puzzles because someone may have trouble with them.

    There are maybe like a total of 10 jump-heavy quests out of over 500 (according to Wiki) available in the game. Moreover, most of them only require 1 person to do the jumping puzzles, or have jumping as part of the optional. So you can either safely ignore these quests, or group with someone who can help you complete.

    So dear devs, please don't stop making these quests, we have enough "run in a straight line and kill everything" quests as is. And maybe make some more quests with alternative completion routes (including stealth!) like in the olden days.
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    I like the idea of adding a rope or ladder option for when one party member has reached the top. A couple of prime places for this would be the Smash and Burn end chest and the jumping path in Deathwyrm.

    Not sure if the game's tech could support this, but adding a rope/rope ladder item which could be lowered to other party members so they could climb to where the person placing it was would be a fantastic addition to the game. And arcane classes could maybe get the rope trick spell too.

    Thanks.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Dragavon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedip View Post
    This is a heart felt plea from a maladroit. Can you please restrict the number of quests where there is a mandatory considerable jumping element? I have now had to add Smash and Burn to my list of never run again quests to join such luminaries as Newcomers and The Price of Freedom.

    I have now run Smash and Burn twice, my jump was 40+, and it has taken me almost an hour each time to complete the final room (similar to the Mario room in Newcomers). For those of us with adverse medical conditions or poor hand/eye co-ordination these types of quests are difficult but more importantly extremely frustrating.
    While I do agree with you completely about the topic then Smash and Burn is not a quest where you need high jump.

    There is a path where a FF item and 0 jump skill is enough to comfortably complete the quest and get the end chest. You just have to find it. Took me a couple of runs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    In general, we tend to avoid keyboard-skill-heavy requirements for a main-path completion of a quest.
    Especially for RAID (see Temple of the Deathwyrm) please avoid Super Mario platform , because collision calculation and lag make it impossbile in DDo engine.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragavon View Post
    There is a path where a FF item and 0 jump skill is enough to comfortably complete the quest and get the end chest. You just have to find it. Took me a couple of runs
    I agree, the last room is quite cleverly designed, it's more about exploration and learning the layout. There is very little actualy jumping skill involved.

    It kind of reminds me of another less-populart quest, Coalescence Chamber, where having low jump and jumping as little as possible is actually EASIER that constantly flying off because you hit your head on a 40 Jump character.
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