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Thread: Closing the gap

  1. #161
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccddd View Post
    the gap is becoming a problem for sure. im a returning player with about 10 heroic past life and 8 epic. i was zerging everything with my eyes closed when warlock first came out. but then i took a 2 year break, now with 0 Racial pl and less than 5 reaper points im feel almost useless in anything over r1.
    You should be fine with what you have. I have a little more than that (and my gear is far from top tier) and I do fine. Besides, most lfm's are for R1-3. If you are running higher then that probably means you are running with friends/guildies, so there should be no stigma attached to your performance until you gain more rxp/points.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLexi View Post
    I've noticed a lot of people speaking on behalf of new players, who, in all likelihood, are more concerned with the basics and whether they like the game sufficiently to keep playing - rather than marginal gains eked from past life after past life.
    Indeed, I do not know why any of the newer players that I have helped went on to leave the game after their first TR (the most common experience).

    Mostly likely it is a combination of things, and we can make guesses at the elements, but never be certain without interviewing them.

    You also guess at why they leave. We are compelled to. We want to understand and we bring all our experience with the game and human motivations and we draw the best conclusions we can. The approach is flawed, but in the absence of hard information, it's the only one we have.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccddd View Post
    the gap is becoming a problem for sure. im a returning player with about 10 heroic past life and 8 epic. i was zerging everything with my eyes closed when warlock first came out. but then i took a 2 year break, now with 0 Racial pl and less than 5 reaper points im feel almost useless in anything over r1. at lest i can still keep myself alive and kill some random trash.
    Oh no, you have to open your eyes now ?

    My only capped alt is a single PL (wiz) warlock. I solo him on r1 for gear or whatever. It is trivial.

    In a party I'd feel fine at least up to r5. Would be piking anything higher. So at least your warlock example feels weak to me.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    They already boosted player power 400% and you are asking for the same thing yet again. That is the proof it didn't work.
    Didn't work at what goal? If you were to have the same past lives and gear that we have now, but revert back to the old class enhancements I am pretty sure that a new player would have a lower percentage of power compared to a max player than they do now. New players don't have good gear or past lives so class features is all they get. That 400% boost was a godsend to new players. It was the first time that many of them ever felt what it was like to have a decent amount of power.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by boredGamer View Post
    Oh no, you have to open your eyes now ?

    My only capped alt is a single PL (wiz) warlock. I solo him on r1 for gear or whatever. It is trivial.

    In a party I'd feel fine at least up to r5. Would be piking anything higher. So at least your warlock example feels weak to me.
    i never said im a warlock. also way to miss the point, i can catch up just fine since i been playing this dang thing at lunch, the post is not about me. i dont see the new players who already had to learn the game from the ground up to have any fun while catching up
    Last edited by cccddd; 06-16-2019 at 11:44 AM.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLexi View Post
    Furthermore...It is this perception of needing x amount of past lives or pieces of gear, more so than the past lives and gear itself that is the greater barrier to enjoying DDO.
    Agreed. I collect past lives because I enjoy the process but I've never felt like I needed any of them. Collecting past lives is simply the point of the game to me. In fact, if past lives are ever needed (e.g. for a wizard that needs extra spell penetration to perform properly) then it highlights a serious problem with the game. Past lives should be 100% bonus on never factored in to game balance. First life wizards should be highly functional as well. If they are not then that is the entire point of this thread. Closing the gap is about making first life characters function, not about making the acquisition of past lives easier.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    You should be fine with what you have. I have a little more than that (and my gear is far from top tier) and I do fine. Besides, most lfm's are for R1-3. If you are running higher then that probably means you are running with friends/guildies, so there should be no stigma attached to your performance until you gain more rxp/points.
    ill manage its alright. i been playing since lunch and took a few long break before but i never felt this much of a power gap when i came back, i think its mostly because the reaper points. if i can feel the gap the new players much be really feeling it, most of them probably dont see a realistic way to catch up or have fun while doing it.
    Last edited by cccddd; 06-16-2019 at 11:46 AM.

  8. #168
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLexi View Post
    I've noticed a lot of people speaking on behalf of new players, who, in all likelihood, are more concerned with the basics and whether they like the game sufficiently to keep playing - rather than marginal gains eked from past life after past life.

    Furthermore...It is this perception of needing x amount of past lives or pieces of gear, more so than the past lives and gear itself that is the greater barrier to enjoying DDO.
    I'm a returning player with 80 past lives and I can say the experience is very similar to what new players are describing - a game that is just not fun to play (less fun to play???) if you don't have the optimum grouping options consistently available, and if you are behind the power curve for solo play.

    The reasons are subtle, like not being able to find a group in R3 if R3 is the appropriate challenge for you, or people jumping in and out of the 1-2 available LFM's instead of forming a group with some returning player. I put up an LFM as I solo epic content, and if/when someone joins, they usually leave if they are not self sufficient, not because the content is not being completed, but because it takes too long if I am not powering them through the content.

    None of the reasons really have to do with thinking you need everything or lack of knowledge of the game. They have much more to do with design that simply leaves players behind, and no effort to improve player experience.

    Vets and devs need to get off their high horses and take the time to listen, and realize that things have changed since their new player experience. There are way more bad build traps, way more gear issues, and much bigger differences in past life power.

    It's time for some listening and for some design for better play experience - and within SSG's design and monetization model.

    It simply needs to become a priority.

    Right now, it's not even a design consideration.
    Last edited by nokowi; 06-16-2019 at 11:47 AM.
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  9. #169
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaeveTuohy View Post
    Indeed, I do not know why any of the newer players that I have helped went on to leave the game after their first TR (the most common experience).

    Mostly likely it is a combination of things, and we can make guesses at the elements, but never be certain without interviewing them.

    You also guess at why they leave. We are compelled to. We want to understand and we bring all our experience with the game and human motivations and we draw the best conclusions we can. The approach is flawed, but in the absence of hard information, it's the only one we have.
    You start by listening to the people that provide feedback, instead of minimizing their voices, you engage in conversation and gain additional insight.

    Do you see SSG engaging the people with comments here?
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  10. #170
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erethizon View Post
    Didn't work at what goal? If you were to have the same past lives and gear that we have now, but revert back to the old class enhancements I am pretty sure that a new player would have a lower percentage of power compared to a max player than they do now. New players don't have good gear or past lives so class features is all they get. That 400% boost was a godsend to new players. It was the first time that many of them ever felt what it was like to have a decent amount of power.
    When confronted with direct evidence that something didn't work at the 400% power level (the same complaints are being made by new players), and yet you continue make the exact same argument after 400% power increase.

    How many percent power increase would accomplish your preference?

    Another 400%, 1000%?

    If you can't envision what another 400% or 1000% power would do for vets, it would crush the entire existing game.

    If you can't envision what another 400% power would do for vet vs new player experience, the gap would be just as big as it is now.

    Added power will simply be taken better advantage of by those that know how to play the game, how to take advantage of exploits and bugs, and those that know how to make optimum builds with optimum rotations.


    SSG already did your solution. It didn't work.
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  11. #171
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccddd View Post
    ill manage its alright. i been playing since lunch and took a few long break before but i never felt this much of a power gap when i came back, i think its mostly because the reaper points. if i can feel the gap the new players much be really feeling it, most of them probably dont see a realistic way to catch up or have fun while doing it.
    This is my experience as well.

    If anybody has any respect for the knowledge and thought of my posts over the years, or for the youtube assassin site I ran, I highly recommend you consider listening to those that say things have changed from your own experience.

    What is different is we have people willing to learn, people taking the time to learn now describing the player experience as poor.

    These are not the players that zerg into a room, get themselves killed, and then come to the forums to complain. These are the people that would be DDO super-players if the game provided a good experience for those willing to learn, and if DDO can't retain thoughtful and intelligent players, there is somethign wrong with the design decisions going on around here.



    Oldschool - you are exactly the type of player that will enjoy DDO and that DDO needs. If you were to play for many more months or years, you will eventually get there. If you eventually decide the game is just not fun any more, believe me I will understand. The design team around here doesn't get it, so it seems to be a take what DDO has to offer or leave type of decision.

    It will be understandable if you eventually get frustrated at the lack of help or care from those making design decisions and decide to leave.

    You've seen their level of response in the Shadowdancer thread. This is typical for what you should expect from SSG.

    Hopefully the caring people in the game will make the difference, and you will remain. It's tough to find a great play experience, but it can be done if all stars align.
    Last edited by nokowi; 06-16-2019 at 01:13 PM.
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  12. #172
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLexi View Post
    I've noticed a lot of people speaking on behalf of new players, who, in all likelihood, are more concerned with the basics and whether they like the game sufficiently to keep playing - rather than marginal gains eked from past life after past life.

    Furthermore...It is this perception of needing x amount of past lives or pieces of gear, more so than the past lives and gear itself that is the greater barrier to enjoying DDO.
    I can't speak for others but in my case I have talked with them, at least those I mention. Either in the game on a Discord channel or in some cases in person (the 3 month VIP was a co-worker) and they have let me know they were tossing in the towel. I have met dozens and dozens of new players who I don't see around any more and I have no idea why they left but in my case the ones I have actually "interviewed" overwhelmingly it was a perception of an insurmountable mountain that they could never "catch up". Doesn't matter how accurate that is, it was their perception and why they left.

    It should be noted they didn't want "free" stuff, they wanted to earn it but they didn't see a timeframe that they could complete that in. Thus my suggesting that at least the Heroic level grind get a reduction of about 25% XP (the second life XP vs 3rd+) I'd even be in favour of dropping it to 1st life XP all the way around personally but I know there is NO way that would fly around here, just look at the push back on 2nd life XP.

    Also I do wish that those who shoot the idea down at least advance one of their own. It's a pretty big deal at my office that you don't bring forward an issue or something you feel needs to change without and idea of how to deal with / make that change and it generally leads to productive discussion. Here it just feels like some people would like to see change and a bunch of prolific posters just try and shout them down with a "you are wrong" / "Get Gud" / "It's too late" rather than trying to constructively analyse the issue and see if there isn't something that could be theory crafted out that SSG might actually consider.

    Yeah I know it's the forums, this is pretty much what I expected to happen and I will admit it's been more civil than I truly expected but I really had hoped for more.

  13. #173
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    So successful that the majority of the players left and of those still here theres a contingent on the forums complaining that the game experience needs improvement.

    SUCCESS!!!
    You spend hours every week posting on the forums, and I'm assuming a few hours every week still playing the game.

    Why?

    You've mentioned that dozens of games do it better, and that you've researched hundreds of games. Gaming research and design is supposedly your career.

    But you still spend a lot of time here on THIS game. Even with all those other choices.

    Why? Either DDO is indeed a very good game, worthy of your time, or you're just making up all that stuff about the other games.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 06-16-2019 at 09:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccddd View Post
    i never said im a warlock. also way to miss the point, i can catch up just fine since i been playing this dang thing at lunch, the post is not about me. i dont see the new players who already had to learn the game from the ground up to have any fun while catching up
    Well, I started two years ago. Am I who it's about? I've had fun the whole time.

  15. #175
    Community Member Mglaxix's Avatar
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    For everyone that seems to think that SSG has done nothing to help out the new player base perhaps you should go take a look back in DDO history.

    1.> As of update 20 when the xp curve was adjusted so that 2nd life required approximately 10% less xp and third life 15% less.

    2.> If you look at how much base xp has been added to the game in that time in heroics it exceeds 30%, let's not even consider how much xp has been added to Epics.

    3.> Persistent tomes through reincarnation, stat and skill tomes added, xp learning tomes, monster manuals, xp pots that were not available, daily bonus, event bonuses, grouping bonuses, raid bonuses, reaper bonus to xp, reaper ap, racial ap, universal ap, as of update 19 sagas have grown from 2 to 17, more than 5 Wilderness areas have been introduced not taking into account heroic / epic, removal of hireling xp penalty for death, removal of xp penalty for other player dying to your xp, trapping bonus was increased can't say when but went up what 15% at highest bonus, raid runes so any character can get raid gear regardless of ability to run or even flag for the raid, the ability to farm any heroic content gear for purposes of reincarnating with a single capped farmer in no time.

    4.> Crafting and named loot drop stats, spell power, and many other effects have been improved by 15% or more.

    5.> Classes, Races, Enhancement trees have been improved and expanded allowing for many more build types.

    6.> I think anyone who has played DDO for any length of time could put together a better guide than an intern at SSG to help new players learn and understand the nuances within DDO. There are already plenty of resources for new players to learn from if they choose to or someone points them in that direction.



    I keeping hearing people saying new players don't enjoy the game because they are so far behind. However I have never once seen anywhere on the forums or posts that anyone is expected to run reaper on a first life character. I am pretty sure I won't be trying to doing something I have never done before without looking up information, seeking advice from someone experienced with that task, and or seeking out a professional if needed. I have never seen any LFM with a requirement on past lives to join a public LFM. So if you plan to post perhaps you should do some homework and post facts that are verifiable other than that its just your opinion.



    http://ddowiki.com/page/Reaper

    Reaper Difficulty offers a new challenge for the toughest adventurers! Reaper difficulty can be selected from the quest portal UI for many quests and raids throughout the game. When you select Reaper difficulty, there is also a drop-down list of between one and ten Skulls, which affects quest/raid difficulty and reward. Special Reaper Bonuses can be found on items acquired in Reaper Difficulty, there is an increased chance to get named items, and you'll earn Reaper Experience. Reaper XP will award a Reaper Point at certain thresholds that can be spent on abilities in a special Reaper benefit tree, among other things! Warning: Reaper difficulty is meant for players who enjoy a serious challenge. You have been warned!



    Direct Quote from http://ddowiki.com

    The six difficulty levels for quests are: solo, casual, normal, hard, elite, and epic. Epic quests are further divided into epic normal, epic hard and Epic Elite. Solo and epic are only available on a small number of quests; solo quests must be completed alone, and are rare outside tutorials, while epic quests are offered once level 20 is reached. All difficulty levels give an XP bonus the first time the quest is run at the given level, but elite gives a much higher bonus. Higher difficulty levels provide a much more challenging experience to the players, with monsters making use of more powerful spells and traps. The quality of the loot (items, equipment, etc.) increases depending on difficulty level.

    Casual level offers decreased XP and loot, with some powerful items not appearing in casual at all. Casual is frequently used by newer players to learn the game, or by higher-level characters to quickly achieve prerequisites for raids or to farm materials used in crafting.
    Main 100+ Lives ( 42/42 HTR - 15/21 ITR - 36/36 ETR - 10/14 RAP - 28/36 RTR - 82/154 ), Jynxer - Completionist ( 22/42 HTR - 7/21 ITR - 11/36 ETR - 2/14 RAP - 1/36 RTR - 34/154 ), SoulDuster - Completionist - Paladin ( 15x HTR 3x ETR 20/154 ) BlakReign - 1st Life Reaper https://ibb.co/album/k1hMqa https://ibb.co/album/g0yuAa https://ibb.co/album/bXjCWF

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by boredGamer View Post
    Well, I started two years ago. Am I who it's about? I've had fun the whole time.
    lol is about the new players that quit, since u r still here u do the math.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mglaxix View Post
    For everyone that seems to think that SSG has done nothing to help out the new player base perhaps you should go take a look back in DDO history.

    1.> As of update 20 when the xp curve was adjusted so that 2nd life required approximately 10% less xp and third life 15% less.

    2.> If you look at how much base xp has been added to the game in that time in heroics it exceeds 30%, let's not even consider how much xp has been added to Epics.

    3.> Persistent tomes through reincarnation, stat and skill tomes added, xp learning tomes, monster manuals, xp pots that were not available, daily bonus, event bonuses, grouping bonuses, raid bonuses, reaper bonus to xp, reaper ap, racial ap, universal ap, as of update 19 sagas have grown from 2 to 17, more than 5 Wilderness areas have been introduced not taking into account heroic / epic, removal of hireling xp penalty for death, removal of xp penalty for other player dying to your xp, trapping bonus was increased can't say when but went up what 15% at highest bonus, raid runes so any character can get raid gear regardless of ability to run or even flag for the raid, the ability to farm any heroic content gear for purposes of reincarnating with a single capped farmer in no time.

    4.> Crafting and named loot drop stats, spell power, and many other effects have been improved by 15% or more.

    5.> Classes, Races, Enhancement trees have been improved and expanded allowing for many more build types.

    6.> I think anyone who has played DDO for any length of time could put together a better guide than an intern at SSG to help new players learn and understand the nuances within DDO. There are already plenty of resources for new players to learn from if they choose to or someone points them in that direction.



    I keeping hearing people saying new players don't enjoy the game because they are so far behind. However I have never once seen anywhere on the forums or posts that anyone is expected to run reaper on a first life character. I am pretty sure I won't be trying to doing something I have never done before without looking up information, seeking advice from someone experienced with that task, and or seeking out a professional if needed. I have never seen any LFM with a requirement on past lives to join a public LFM. So if you plan to post perhaps you should do some homework and post facts that are verifiable other than that its just your opinion.



    http://ddowiki.com/page/Reaper

    Reaper Difficulty offers a new challenge for the toughest adventurers! Reaper difficulty can be selected from the quest portal UI for many quests and raids throughout the game. When you select Reaper difficulty, there is also a drop-down list of between one and ten Skulls, which affects quest/raid difficulty and reward. Special Reaper Bonuses can be found on items acquired in Reaper Difficulty, there is an increased chance to get named items, and you'll earn Reaper Experience. Reaper XP will award a Reaper Point at certain thresholds that can be spent on abilities in a special Reaper benefit tree, among other things! Warning: Reaper difficulty is meant for players who enjoy a serious challenge. You have been warned!



    Direct Quote from http://ddowiki.com

    The six difficulty levels for quests are: solo, casual, normal, hard, elite, and epic. Epic quests are further divided into epic normal, epic hard and Epic Elite. Solo and epic are only available on a small number of quests; solo quests must be completed alone, and are rare outside tutorials, while epic quests are offered once level 20 is reached. All difficulty levels give an XP bonus the first time the quest is run at the given level, but elite gives a much higher bonus. Higher difficulty levels provide a much more challenging experience to the players, with monsters making use of more powerful spells and traps. The quality of the loot (items, equipment, etc.) increases depending on difficulty level.

    Casual level offers decreased XP and loot, with some powerful items not appearing in casual at all. Casual is frequently used by newer players to learn the game, or by higher-level characters to quickly achieve prerequisites for raids or to farm materials used in crafting.

    Yes, some people are suggesting that new players play Reaper. Here on the forums. More times than I can remember. The argument is, it is a fast way to narrow the power gap.

    Chances are good that a new player may only see reaper LFMs, or a majority thereof, because that is where the game is for vets.

    So yes, I'm sure new players are getting pushed into Reaper one way or another. And yes, it is a bad idea. But never forget, 'reaper is for grouping' or whatever.

  18. #178
    Community Member DaviMOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    I'm a returning player with 80 past lives and I can say the experience is very similar to what new players are describing - a game that is just not fun to play (less fun to play???) if you don't have the optimum grouping options consistently available, and if you are behind the power curve for solo play.

    The reasons are subtle, like not being able to find a group in R3 if R3 is the appropriate challenge for you, or people jumping in and out of the 1-2 available LFM's instead of forming a group with some returning player. I put up an LFM as I solo epic content, and if/when someone joins, they usually leave if they are not self sufficient, not because the content is not being completed, but because it takes too long if I am not powering them through the content.
    I'm also a returner, came back a week before sharn arrival with way less PLs. I agree that there is something with the community and seems to me its a side effect of getting smaller. People wont allow any joiners if they dont know who is when the content is harder than r3, they dont even post the LFM but the word of mouth goes by. Someone is forming a group and a call for a specific person in guild chat comes, they would prefer shortman any content or drop some skulls if its not to play with old and well known faces. The rare cases a r7+ goes on LFM they will decline any request and shortman or drop skulls if among the join requests there is none of the server's stars.

    There is also that build x-ray. Someone looks at you and dont find any forum well accepted build and start to not accept you at all. Is funny to Play an Sorc EK, no one wants you until you join the party and manages to survive better than the traditional melees, heal the party and deal descent dps.

    I can handle myself in r10 groups, already did and contributed in guild and friends groups sadly i cant prove myself to this people and that is me who have something on this game. I can imagine how a new player who still learning would feel. This kind of behavior are usually copied in every level of power difference .

    I'm not against op's suggestion of a xp requirement reduction for the first lives I just dont think it would solve any problem. The power gained from those few extra PLs wont change anything. The issue is learning and I'm not gating anyone by saying it. People need to learn it, there is not a way around and there is nothing to do with the "get gud" snobbish talk.

    I'm just pointing out that the gap is a learning curve not power or grind side from reaper XP but even on reaper its only during leveling process, mostly heroics. Even if you manage to convince devs to wipe out from the game reaper xp and PLs progression ( and with it killing anything that defines DDO as an MMORPG), the few remaining from this raganarok would still only group up with their elite-pro vet circle and look down on people that are not on their experience level.

    And not knowing the ropes only becomes an issue when you have VETs that welcomes new players really bad when:

    - zerging everything
    - not ressing or carrying the stone of a dead low max health party member,
    - trying to "teach" new players when not requested to how they should give up any freedom on building their toons and follow a ready build on the forums( killing the fun and learning process)
    - by getting too high in their status that they cant just play with new people.

    By making things easier will also help those vets to faster get even stronger not only on their main characters but when playing alts as they wont feel that need to get involved with the newbies and "weaklings" because soon they would get out of their gear levels and PLs by making use of their accumulated experience and knowledge on the game.( if they already did iton hard mode imagine what they could do on easy?)

    Making progression easier will not only fail to address the disconnection between vets and new people in game and the game's hostility to new players but it will also diminish the reasons the established player base have to keep playing it.
    Last edited by DaviMOC; 06-17-2019 at 09:06 AM.

  19. #179
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    You spend hours every week posting on the forums, and I'm assuming a few hours every week still playing the game.

    Why?

    You've mentioned that dozens of games do it better, and that you've researched hundreds of games. Gaming research and design is supposedly your career.

    But you still spend a lot of time here on THIS game. Even with all those other choices.

    Why? Either DDO is indeed a very good game, worthy of your time, or you're just making up all that stuff about the other games.
    Not only is your post here false dichotomy, but your "this or that" statement is not mutually exclusive. There is zero relationship between ones objective knowledge of other games versus how they subjectively view DDO. Two people could have the same objective knowledge of other games, and one could subjectively like DDO, which the other could subjectively dislike DDO.

    Put simply, its not difficult to objectively understand how customers who used to enjoy a product more than they do now, provide feedback on what would make them enjoy it like they once used to.

    Furthermore, I do not spend 1/20th of my time I used to spend on this game. Out of our 200+ person crew, we are now single digits in DDO. We do have standing guilds in many other games.

    Objective readers already understand my/our position on this however. The old DDO game system preP2W and when it had marginal P2W to a far lesser degree than it does now was a great game. I encourage SSG to make game system decisions rather than the vast majority of the decisions being about monetizing grind. I am too well versed in how this all works to fall into the trap of believing this will ever happen however, as it is well known that the more and more dependent a revenue stream is on p2w, decisions will be made more often which are in direct conflict with game system balance. When enough of those are made you end up in a similar situation you are in right now, conflicted between how you justified p2w hand over fist and what that lead to, massive power creep, and massive gap in power. Having gone too far in on us in the past to do a full 180 on all previous points, you attempt to deny this is an issue, but then show up in these discussions over and over again supporting the same suggestions which did not happen for years at a time, for precisely why we informed you they would not happen.

    TL;DR: When you claim that gap in power is not that bad on one end of a thread, but complain that back loading of an entire grind system is bad for the game on the other end of the same thread, you are contradicting yourself.
    Last edited by Chai; 06-17-2019 at 10:02 AM.

  20. #180
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mglaxix View Post
    I keeping hearing people saying new players don't enjoy the game because they are so far behind. However I have never once seen anywhere on the forums or posts that anyone is expected to run reaper on a first life character.
    Wow, we had an R4 suggestion in this very thread.
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

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