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  1. #1
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Default Crabshell buckler 5% Spell failure WAI?

    Crabshell buckler as a buckler shouldn't have any spell failure according to wikki.

    So WAI?
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  2. #2
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    It's a named item, with unique stats. Why do you think it "should" have no ASF? Do you also think it "should" have it's ACP increased, and shield bonus decreased, etc.?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  3. #3
    Community Member Graskitch's Avatar
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    krimsonrane has a valid question - at least one that I would like to find out if it is wai.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Shields

    the ddowiki can be inaccurate, but the chart on the page above for shields indicates that bucklers in DDO have 0% arcane spell failure.

    there was a forum thread from a few years back :
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/471672

    which indicated that originally bucklers had 5% asf, but then it was changed to 0% asf, but then post-MOTU, certain bucklers were released that had 5% asf again.

  4. #4
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    bucklers are a mess.
    originally bucklers used to have 5% ASF (except mithral bucklers). at some point (probably Update 14) devs have removed ASF from bucklers.
    later (starting IIRC with Trials of the Archons), they started to introduce some named bucklers with 5% ASF.
    It is as if they forgot about this earlier decision to get rid of buckler spell failure.

    You can see which bucklers have ASF by going to https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Bucklers and sort by ASF.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    Crabshell buckler as a buckler shouldn't have any spell failure according to wikki.

    So WAI?
    It is normal for bucklers to have 5% spell failure.
    The wiki is incorrect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffWatson View Post
    It is normal for bucklers to have 5% spell failure.
    The wiki is incorrect.
    No.
    In PnP, yes, bucklers have 5% spell failure.
    In DDO, no, otherwise swashbuckler bards couldn't use em correctly.

  7. #7
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    Why argue about whether plain old bucklers have now or used to or should or shouldn't have 5% or 0% ASF?

    It just doesn't matter to the question of the Crabshell. It's a unique named item with stats of it's own. NOTHING about basic bucklers in any way indicates whether the Crabshell "should" have 5% ASF or not.

    It's like saying the Sword of Shadow "should" have 19-20 x2 crit, because that's what (basic) great swords get, and it's a (named, unique) great sword.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Why argue about whether plain old bucklers have now or used to or should or shouldn't have 5% or 0% ASF?

    It just doesn't matter to the question of the Crabshell. It's a unique named item with stats of it's own. NOTHING about basic bucklers in any way indicates whether the Crabshell "should" have 5% ASF or not.

    It's like saying the Sword of Shadow "should" have 19-20 x2 crit, because that's what (basic) great swords get, and it's a (named, unique) great sword.
    You are totally right - named items can have any stats.
    But your position seems to imply that when creating the Crabshell Buckler, someone made a conscious decision to assign it 5% ASF.
    I, on the other hand, think that it happened by accident and it is a bug.

  9. #9
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Why argue about whether plain old bucklers have now or used to or should or shouldn't have 5% or 0% ASF?
    oc it matters: In a nutshell, a systematic possibly seems to have been in place here which then was not followed through consistently. this could either apply to bucklers having 5%, bucklers having 0% or bucklers intentionally having either or depending on item. Whichever way it is intended, it appears to be undocumented by the devs or not all too clearly commented on over time, unless somebody can go and dig out the relevant release notes - in addition wiki just so happens to not clarify and instead further confuse without any commentary on why it lists 0% but crossed out.

    OP simply came to understand the issue better.

    Are there bigger fish to fry out there for the devs to reply to? Certainly.
    Will it terribly detract from their time for bigger fish if one were to reply once to clarify? Certainly not.
    Is there any chance crabshell buckler will retroactively be changed to 0%? Almost certainly not.
    Could one just not mind and simply slot an augment or take an enhancement to get by this? Certainly.

    Is it true that for a lot of item classes that have some sort of unified stat range, there almost always are some outliers that are better or worse? Certainly.
    Does this invalidate that by and large certain item classes have a specific stat range these few special outliers excluded? Certainly not.
    Which is it with bucklers? Certainly uncertain.

    Could one just not mind this thread rather than being unkind if one feels it isn't relevant? Go figure ^^
    Last edited by Eryhn; 06-10-2019 at 06:31 AM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    There are instances when bucklers do have 5% ASF and also when they do not. I also threw in a small shield which also has 5% ASF.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    It's a named item, with unique stats. Why do you think it "should" have no ASF? Do you also think it "should" have it's ACP increased, and shield bonus decreased, etc.?
    Why do "you" think an item "shouldn't" follow the basic "rules" of its "type"? "All" magic "items" are built on a base "item" and therefore "shoud" start with "the" statistics for "that" item.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OfElectricMen View Post
    Why do "you" think an item "shouldn't" follow the basic "rules" of its "type"? "All" magic "items" are built on a base "item" and therefore "shoud" start with "the" statistics for "that" item.
    but the base item does have 5% ASF


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    but the base item does have 5% ASF
    This is the old pre-MotU buckler. Yeah, it wasn't updated back then. Consistency and thoroughness has never been Turbine's forte.
    Randomly generated bucklers, from wooden buckler to celestial buckler have no ASF.

    The same shop also sells Padded Armor, Studded Leather and similar old stuff.
    Last edited by cru121; 06-10-2019 at 11:54 AM.

  14. #14
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    Generally, named items are supposed to be better than their ran-gen counterparts in all ways. So when a named item has, say, an increased crit profile on a weapon, or a boosted MDB on armor, its clearly intentional, but it makes sense why it was built that way.

    When an item is penalized compared to the base type, then that raises a fair question of why that penalty was imposed. What was the intent? What was the counterbalance for giving the item a drawback? E.g., the Stone Shoes have that crazy high weight, and make you sink. That was deliberate, and the purpose was both for flavor, and to counterbalance the pretty powerful +100 unconscious range affix.

    If the current stated intent is that bucklers have 0% ASF, then its a fair question to ask why any buckler still doesnt have 0%. Is it a mistake, they forgot to update it/forgot to follow the new guideline? Or is it intentional, and if so, what is the intent? Is it not supposed to be used by Swashbucklers, maybe meant more for EKs? Does it have a notable bonus that needs to be offset with a drawback? What you CANT do is just say "named item! no rules!" like that ends any discussion.

    In this case it looks like it's the former, just a mistake...in which case its fair to ask for a correction

  15. #15
    Community Member Graskitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Why argue about whether plain old bucklers have now or used to or should or shouldn't have 5% or 0% ASF?

    It just doesn't matter to the question of the Crabshell. It's a unique named item with stats of it's own. NOTHING about basic bucklers in any way indicates whether the Crabshell "should" have 5% ASF or not.

    It's like saying the Sword of Shadow "should" have 19-20 x2 crit, because that's what (basic) great swords get, and it's a (named, unique) great sword.

    there was a thread about the Lunar Crescent from the Sharn quest Roll Call in which someone called out that the material type was Adamantine, but it was not bypassing Adamantine DR:
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506076

    that could have been a unique property of the named weapon Lunar Crescent that it was made of Adamantine but it just does not bypass its associated DR.

    I think it is valid to question something if it is not consistent to find out whether it is wai or not.

    In the case of the Lunar Crescent, it was found to be a mistake in the material and that forum thread helped to point it out to the devs. There can be mistakes in named items.

    I do not know whether all bucklers or some bucklers should have 0% asf or 5% asf, but I do not think it is out of line to question that.

  16. #16
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    but the base item does have 5% ASF



    That says it all for me. It is simply inconsistency on DDO's part.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

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