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  1. #41
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    So 1% chance for raid loot on Casual difficulty or would you really stick it to the dirty casuals and give them a FULL 0% chance?

    If it were up to me, I would give them a 0%. I mean casual was never meant to get loot or xp on, casual is just to learn.
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  2. #42
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Opening up the casual difficulty for raids would have been a much better solution. Since all the whiners are just complaining about not being able to play through the content they paid for. Just give them their casual difficulty. Since they are just a bunch of casuals.
    Fortunately the Devs feel the same way as I do. Opening up casual difficulty would not be a better solution.

    We "bunch of casuals" that pay real money are a big reason why DDO is still around today. Go ahead...keep trying to push us "bunch of casuals" to the fringe and see if you still have a game called DDO to play in the near future.


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    Proud member of the "Bunch of Casuals" club!!!!
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  3. #43
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loromir View Post
    Fortunately the Devs feel the same way as I do. Opening up casual difficulty would not be a better solution.

    We "bunch of casuals" that pay real money are a big reason why DDO is still around today. Go ahead...keep trying to push us "bunch of casuals" to the fringe and see if you still have a game called DDO to play in the near future.


    Signed,

    Proud member of the "Bunch of Casuals" club!!!!
    Unfortunate that this is accurate. But it is because most of the people playing DDO is a bunch of old people who work 9-5 jobs, have families to take care of, don't have a whole lot of time to become uber. Very rare that someone would run into a player that is below the age of 30
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  4. #44
    Brains and other spare parts! DeltaBravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemeit View Post
    Don't find this to be true at all. Already seen plenty of PUGs complete - was in one today. But even it it were true, I still have no problem with that. Not everyone can complete the most difficult raid in the game? Alright.
    I dont ubderstand what the issue is for you for ssg to nerf a raid in a defficulty you are not playing. You Got the luxery to pick 12 higher difficulties the other Players that find normal not just a little to hard but way over thier head dont they cant go below normal.

    And I simple disagree on not everyone should be able to complete all raids in game ad kong teamplay and mechanic ser in place on normal.
    Deltabravo I have come here to FROG things up!

  5. #45
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Very rare that someone would run into a player that is below the age of 30
    DDO is just not an action game. Cynically put, that age of players rather prefer graphically shining action games. Adrenaline addiction.






    On a less serious note, I'm trying out ways to pronounce THTH. Currently, it's like TH TH (like in "the"), which sounds a bit like a snakes's hissing.
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tapper this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this dale."
    "Archbishop Dryden wants to talk to you to tap on this tale."
    English is not my first language - misinterpretations galore !

  6. #46
    Brains and other spare parts! DeltaBravo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    All players (even casuals) should be able to be in a group that can complete it on Normal.

    There are 12 other difficulty settings to make it challenging to the non-casuals.
    And I agree.
    Deltabravo I have come here to FROG things up!

  7. #47
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Exclusivity. If casual players are allowed to receive raid items. Then these items lose their exclusivity that makes them feel special for players that should be running the raid.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Exclusivity. If casual players are allowed to receive raid items. Then these items lose their exclusivity that makes them feel special for players that should be running the raid.
    So only the top 10% should feel special? The rest of us "casuals" don't get the right to feel "special"?


    ....And, because I'm "casual" I shouldn't be running the raid?
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  9. #49
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaBravo View Post
    I dont ubderstand what the issue is for you for ssg to nerf a raid in a defficulty you are not playing. You Got the luxery to pick 12 higher difficulties the other Players that find normal not just a little to hard but way over thier head dont they cant go below normal.

    And I simple disagree on not everyone should be able to complete all raids in game ad kong teamplay and mechanic ser in place on normal.
    There is no reason if they are using teamplay and mechanics that they could not complete yesterday. I have seen and heard pug completions on many servers. Granted they will have to take the time and effort to learn those mechanics...but that is part of the raid. I dare say that any guild that completed it within a week or two of it coming out did so with much work and effort into understanding the raid, how it works and how to beat it. In a pug setting that comes slower as there are always different pieces in place but that doesn't mean it is was too hard...just complex which doesn't have to be a bad thing.
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  10. #50
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    We will be interested to hear people's feedback if they run it in the next couple of days. My suspicion is it's still no cakewalk, just more doable, and maybe now doable by DDO's elite raiders on Elite?
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  11. #51
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kain741 View Post
    There is no reason if they are using teamplay and mechanics that they could not complete yesterday. I have seen and heard pug completions on many servers. Granted they will have to take the time and effort to learn those mechanics...but that is part of the raid. I dare say that any guild that completed it within a week or two of it coming out did so with much work and effort into understanding the raid, how it works and how to beat it. In a pug setting that comes slower as there are always different pieces in place but that doesn't mean it is was too hard...just complex which doesn't have to be a bad thing.
    Agreed. Cordovan just said that there were dozens of completions on normal already. Guess it's not too hot to handle
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  12. #52
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loromir View Post
    So only the top 10% should feel special? The rest of us "casuals" don't get the right to feel "special"?


    ....And, because I'm "casual" I shouldn't be running the raid?
    Exactly the opposite...casual or not, run the raid, learn it well then complete. It doesn't have to be made simpler, just people need to better understand it and have more patience with what they are doing in there. The raid requires discipline and restraint in places where we have never had it before. Normally people see a mob and kill it...this forces you to think and act differently which is a cool aspect in any raid. What people have asked for and got is it to be made easier so instead of changing the mechanics they have kept them in place (as they should) and lightened the punishment for not following the mechanics. Now when you promote to an orange or red you can kill it quicker with brute force instead of learning how to do it correctly.
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  13. #53
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kain741 View Post
    Exactly the opposite...casual or not, run the raid, learn it well then complete. It doesn't have to be made simpler, just people need to better understand it and have more patience with what they are doing in there. The raid requires discipline and restraint in places where we have never had it before. Normally people see a mob and kill it...this forces you to think and act differently which is a cool aspect in any raid. What people have asked for and got is it to be made easier so instead of changing the mechanics they have kept them in place (as they should) and lightened the punishment for not following the mechanics. Now when you promote to an orange or red you can kill it quicker with brute force instead of learning how to do it correctly.

    Going to disagree a little bit. I think the spawn rate was a little fast on normal, and the damage was just a tad too high. I am glad the mechanics are left in, and agree on normal the red names had a bit too many hp. Allowing groups to recover from a mistake is fine. If using poor tactics, or no tactics, or not communicating, groups will still fail this raid on normal.
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  14. #54
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kain741 View Post
    Exactly the opposite...casual or not, run the raid, learn it well then complete. It doesn't have to be made simpler, just people need to better understand it and have more patience with what they are doing in there. The raid requires discipline and restraint in places where we have never had it before. Normally people see a mob and kill it...this forces you to think and act differently which is a cool aspect in any raid. What people have asked for and got is it to be made easier so instead of changing the mechanics they have kept them in place (as they should) and lightened the punishment for not following the mechanics. Now when you promote to an orange or red you can kill it quicker with brute force instead of learning how to do it correctly.

    I've attempted to learn the raid. Because I'm casual (I work 9-5 and have a lot of non DDO responsibilities)....I don't have the time to farm past lives and top end gear. Since I don't have the gear and past lives to mitigate the insane damage and can't contribute top end DPS...I get "filtered". I have no hope of learning the raid in it's pre patch state. I suspect, most DDO players are in my same predicament.

    You guys complaining that they should leave it just as it is...don't have the worry of getting "filtered". You don't understand hitting a raid LFM only to sit in silence for minutes and minutes on end only to see "declined because group is full" message. Now tell me how I'm supposed to learn.

    In case you are wondering what "filtered" means. On Cannith....most LFM's leaders for this raid add in the comment "Filtering"....meaning, they only take people who are a part of the Cannith Raiding Scene. The rest of us...be dammed.
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  15. #55
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    Going to disagree a little bit. I think the spawn rate was a little fast on normal, and the damage was just a tad too high. I am glad the mechanics are left in, and agree on normal the red names had a bit too many hp. Allowing groups to recover from a mistake is fine. If using poor tactics, or no tactics, or not communicating, groups will still fail this raid on normal.
    Raiding requires learning the raid... Raiding requires communication... Players SHOULD NOT be allowed to complete a raid, if they are totally unwilling to learn the mechanics or communicate.
    You can get a decent headset/mic for $10-$20
    Also, if the player is deaf, or if the player can't speak for whatever reason, they should work on their WPM. I personally hate talking, but I still have a headset with a mic, and I can type 80-100WPM depending.

    I really hate how players want to just be handed raid loot without learning the raids at all, without putting forth the effort to get the gear. This game has one of the best wiki's out there compared to other MMOs, also this game has plenty of youtube videos for learning the content, and teaching raids that players can join.

    Heck... If you can't handle some content, then figure out why, don't blame the game or the developers, every game is meant to be beaten, so learn how its meant to be beaten. Maybe your build sucks, maybe you're missing that key ability or key item. I honestly can't even tell you how many people I run into that don't think about using energy sheath or fire shield for damage reductions. How many people I run into that don't have any heal amp, or saves, or other defensive bonuses that would help them out tremendously.

    Get good or get out.
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  16. #56
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loromir View Post
    I've attempted to learn the raid. Because I'm casual (I work 9-5 and have a lot of non DDO responsibilities)....I don't have the time to farm past lives and top end gear. Since I don't have the gear and past lives to mitigate the insane damage and can't contribute top end DPS...I get "filtered". I have no hope of learning the raid in it's pre patch state. I suspect, most DDO players are in my same predicament.
    You don't have to learn the raid by being in the raid... Use youtube, use the wiki. Further more, PAST LIVES ARE NOT NEEDED. On my server there is a player who refuses to TR, he has 30++ toons all first lifers at cap. He is one of the most badass players I know, because he does top tier content as a first lifer.

    Why is he able to do this you might ask? He learns how to build his characters, he learns that gearing isn't optional, he learns the content that he is going to be attempting, he plays as a group communicating and carrying through with strategies.
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  17. #57
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Raiding requires learning the raid... Raiding requires communication... Players SHOULD NOT be allowed to complete a raid, if they are totally unwilling to learn the mechanics or communicate.
    You can get a decent headset/mic for $10-$20
    Also, if the player is deaf, or if the player can't speak for whatever reason, they should work on their WPM. I personally hate talking, but I still have a headset with a mic, and I can type 80-100WPM depending.

    I really hate how players want to just be handed raid loot without learning the raids at all, without putting forth the effort to get the gear. This game has one of the best wiki's out there compared to other MMOs, also this game has plenty of youtube videos for learning the content, and teaching raids that players can join.

    Heck... If you can't handle some content, then figure out why, don't blame the game or the developers, every game is meant to be beaten, so learn how its meant to be beaten. Maybe your build sucks, maybe you're missing that key ability or key item. I honestly can't even tell you how many people I run into that don't think about using energy sheath or fire shield for damage reductions. How many people I run into that don't have any heal amp, or saves, or other defensive bonuses that would help them out tremendously.

    Get good or get out.
    So when all the people who don't get gud, get out, and take their money with them, who will be left to design the raids that none of them could beat? This is what I really think most of the get gud crowd fail to understand. If you alienate 85% of the player base, the game will cease. Then how do you run your raids that nobody else was gud enough for?

    This is not DDO 2010 when the game population was much larger and content was much more difficult. There is a reason epic quests are much easier than they were originally. There is a reason The Cruicible is no longer needed to flag in GH, and you don't need to turn in 60 relics anymore. There is a reason that quests are so much easier to solo than in 2008. Your game developers likely know this, and that is why they are adjusting the raid.

    Nobody said they want stuff handed to them, or a guaranteed win, that is just hyperbole the git gud crowd uses so they can continue to feel superior. Grats to you. You completed the raid on its easiest difficulty (or two) prenerf. That makes you what?
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  18. #58
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    You don't have to learn the raid by being in the raid... Use youtube, use the wiki. Further more, PAST LIVES ARE NOT NEEDED. On my server there is a player who refuses to TR, he has 30++ toons all first lifers at cap. He is one of the most badass players I know, because he does top tier content as a first lifer.

    Why is he able to do this you might ask? He learns how to build his characters, he learns that gearing isn't optional, he learns the content that he is going to be attempting, he plays as a group communicating and carrying through with strategies.
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Too_Hot_to_Handle

    yep, all kinds of great information in here

    Try to research your argument before you come to a debate with adults.
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  19. #59
    Community Member Quikster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    We will be interested to hear people's feedback if they run it in the next couple of days. My suspicion is it's still no cakewalk, just more doable, and maybe now doable by DDO's elite raiders on Elite?
    A challenge? How about an Elite THTH livestream tomorrow?
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  20. #60
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quikster View Post
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Too_Hot_to_Handle

    yep, all kinds of great information in here

    Try to research your argument before you come to a debate with adults.
    http://bfy.tw/O3oy

    I usually use youtube because I learn visually a lot better. Although you're right I never looked at the wiki for the raid, there are still plenty of youtube videos on the raid.
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