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  1. #1

    Default Would you strive for PLs/EPLs that only buff others, not your toon?

    In response to the constant buildup of single character power in Past Lives of all sorts, what about various past lives bonuses that buff others? This is not to the exclusion of current PL benefits--it would be a new option. I suggest this to discourage the devs from adding more single-character power creep which they inevitably will since thinking outside the box does not come naturally to everyone.

    For example, imagine if the devs added possible past lives in which:
    1. All party members get some DPS buff, such as .25W weapon per past life stack or maybe something more interesting
    2. All party members get some kind of DC buff
    3. All party members gain elemental resistance of some small amount
    4. All party members gain XP bonus of 2% per stack
    5. etc etc insert your idea here, use some imagination please


    however, these buffs will not help the toon that is emanating them--like the Heroic Companion enhancement of halfling

    So now the vet toon can buff his or her party and make everyone stronger, better at raids, help guildies and new players etc. etc. Like a passive bardish buff of some kind.
    We would need to be clever and balanced for what forms these would take, also passive and active.

    Why do this?
    One could develop a Buffer alt that joins parties and raids to help everyone, even if it means dual boxing a piker. I have no problems with this.
    It could help close the gap between players and new toons since veteran players will be encouraged to develop their toons to also be OTHER focused, not always all about ME
    Grouping might be a tad more balanced, assuming players adopt this
    Remember chest-blesser toons? Where did they go? Same idea

    Cosmetic effects
    I would do various kinds of nimbus of lights for these abilities, flexible suggestion here

    There are players that do not have the twitch skills and know-how—or even interest—in making an uber toon. This would appeal to them and make them sought after even in tough raids if they have deeply progressed their toons in this way. I know many players like that already—let’s create an avenue of development for them that dignifies their involvement
    Last edited by Saekee; 06-05-2019 at 10:52 PM.
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  2. #2
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    That's a very very interesting idea.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    That's a very very interesting idea.
    Thanks! I should have created a more inflammatory title for the thread though or whined about PL power creep/account wide buffs from PLs...
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    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    Thanks! I should have created a more inflammatory title for the thread though or whined about PL power creep/account wide buffs from PLs...


    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

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  5. #5
    Community Member Yokido's Avatar
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    I have no issues with them creating new past lives, but I think part of the issue with making NEW past lives is that there's already a very wide variety to choose from... It's already quite difficult to completely max out every benefit by going x3 PL of each variety, although people do this, they're also a very small population within the game.

    I think there's a lot of room for improving codependency in groups based on classes and builds, as it used to be back when max level was 20 without epic destinies. Nowadays, people are so self-sufficient they generally don't even need a hjealer, and if they do, they better be extremely overpowered otherwise to be worth a dedicated hjealer, or they're considered noob-tastic and better off as a soul stone.

    Part of this issue might stem from how BIG some of the more recent raid battle rooms are, and how spread apart all of the enemies are... Think of the Thunderholme raids' final battle areas, you can't afford to not be able to self-heal because the healer's so far away from you most of the time.

    It's just like traffic, if you want to eliminate traffic you BUILD the city in such a way as to promote people walking or riding bike. If we want people to work together, then we should BUILD the game around that in perhaps overlooked ways such as making it so healers have value on their own.

  6. #6
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    Very easy to answer: a team base game benefits from differentiated roles. Here's how I see it:
    It's fine for Elite to be a difficulty that can be soloed, but reaper should require a balanced party. The healing debuff is a brilliant aspect that encouraged healers, however with so much healing being available for everyone, ultimately you don't really need dedicated healers. But you should. For reaper. And you should need dedicated tanks. Right now, and this ties into the healing aspect, there are two issues, one is that a really, really resistant tank is impossible to build, because you can't have evasion and massive PRR and MRR and dodge etc. Even the best tank might be vulnerable to certain types of attacks. This brings us to a point where being not a tank but just tanky is often the better option. With so many reaper points that many people have, we all have quite the HP pool that can be healed. No need for intimitanks (except for maybe raids). Supports simply don't exist. The Bard pass was a step in the right direction, buffs being more handy than before, but overall buffs just have to have a bigger impact. They should stack, so they allow you to push over that tiny edge you need for the next skull. They should be something you can actually focus on - a spellsinger Bard will have brilliant buffs and brilliant CC. Why both? Why not allow for play styles that focus more heavily on buffs without being completely useless.

    Or to make it short: Buffs should a valid playstyle. Make buffing better.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnFlory View Post
    Or to make it short: Buffs should a valid playstyle. Make buffing better.
    Add DEbuffs to that list.
    Make Bestow Curse Great Again!

    I wanna see buffs/debuffs see the light again.
    Buff the Fighter with Bull's Strength and see them thanking me!

    @OP
    I love the concept, but it'd be hard to balance around, and, seeing how long it took for bards to get their Aria, I think it might be quite hard to build.

    Make 'em clickies perhaps? "Hey, best buddy, have my Fighter's Ward buff. +PRR to you!" "Thanks best buddy! Here's a Familiar's Tears I keep around in bottles! +DCs back at ya!"
    (Where's my pet rat SSG? I miss him dearly...)

    Another idea would be making them like the PDK active PL feat.

  8. #8
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    I solo a lot because of my particular needs (I often need to AFK for a half hour in the middle of a quest, etc). I generally don't want things that would do this when I could have a benefit that buffs myself.

    That said, I really like the idea and I'd love to see it as an option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    I suggest this to discourage the devs from adding more single-character power creep which they inevitably will since thinking outside the box does not come naturally to everyone.
    whats wrong with single character power?

    what you got against solo players?

    buffing for others is a bards jobs is it not?

    thinking outside the box isnt always good.

    your friend sil

  10. #10
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    yes. And these would be potentially useful for soloists as well. hirelings, pets, summoned mobs, and charmed mobs are generally effected by these types of buff auras.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    yes. And these would be potentially useful for soloists as well. hirelings, pets, summoned mobs, and charmed mobs are generally effected by these types of buff auras.
    then be a bard. if more buffs are needed then push ssg to buff bards more.

    your friend sil

  12. #12
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silinteresting View Post
    whats wrong with single character power?

    what you got against solo players?

    buffing for others is a bards jobs is it not?

    thinking outside the box isnt always good.

    your friend sil
    There's a big difference between "more single-character power creep" and "solo players". It's possible to be okay with solo players and not in favor of more single-character power creep.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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  13. #13
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silinteresting View Post
    then be a bard. if more buffs are needed then push ssg to buff bards more.

    your friend sil
    Bards and Clerics and Druids and Warlocks and Wizards and Sorcerers and a whole lot of other classes.

    Just like how healing isn't just for Clerics and FvS anymore, buffing is not just for Bards.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  14. #14
    Community Member Nonesuch2008's Avatar
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    /Signed

    I like this idea. It may not be for everyone, but not everyone plays the game in the same manner & I think that it would be a good fit for some.
    "When asked if the developers hate the players, as they make so many challenging jumping puzzles, their response was that they have what they consider a “… normal amount of contempt for the players.” This is good. A dungeon master should always nurse a healthy contempt for his or her players."

  15. #15
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    My worry would be if these became de facto required for high level grouping...you don't want to create systems that promote and facilitate elitism.

    It's dangerous enough if you create powerful support classes, but at least those are class based and you can balance the opportunity cost of taking that class. But making past lives that give party buffs would simply become a pure vet check, it would reward you for only running with players who could provide sizeable party buffs - ones that had ground out lots of party PLs. Dont ever want to see "LF1M party completionist only"

  16. #16
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    In response to the constant buildup of single character power in Past Lives of all sorts, what about various past lives bonuses that buff others?
    The problem with this idea is that DDO is a solo-play game. It has the appearances of a group game, but the way things work out, there are rarely enough people online in a particular level range to make more than one or two groups -- numbers wise in the peak there are more, but then you have to factor in the whole "convergence of game goals" that has to happen before a group gels.

    I end up solo'ing perhaps 90% of the time when I wish I was grouping 90% of the time. Why would I bother doing a PL that didn't buff the 90% case?

    Personally, I want to see a reason for people to play at cap. That would create a reason for people to do raids. It would improve the utility of all that nice L29 gear. Recent guild conversation (paraphrased, not me): "Whenever I'm stuck at 30 it feels like I'm wasting my time".

  17. #17
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    Well done, this is a clever idea. I particularly like how it would be desirable to veteran power gamers and helpful to new players too.

    It would need some sort of cap though to make sure people aren't getting up to 5x or 11x whatever the individual buffs are worth. Perhaps it could be capped at the highest value contributed by a party member.

    Thanks.
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  18. #18
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    i would get em on mules, so while lvling they're more useful to the party

    however if the pl were account shared my mules would be more useful to the party too lol
    psykopeta is finally baconpletionist because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS: I post only in the latest thread shown in main page, in the weird case u want something from me, feel free to send pm

  19. #19
    Community Member IlmerSilverhilt's Avatar
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    I would love to have such PL
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by silinteresting View Post
    whats wrong with single character power?

    what you got against solo players?

    buffing for others is a bards jobs is it not?

    thinking outside the box isnt always good.

    your friend sil
    Nothing against that! This idea would be an option so that constant single character progression does not leave a massive gap between new toons and vet toons. The reason people are pushing for account-wide progression is because of the enormity of single character power and it will only keep going and get to a point of ridiculousness which IMHO has already happened (reaper trees were really it, now they added more EPLs). So the devs need an idea where players are not just obsessing about their own little island.
    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    My worry would be if these became de facto required for high level grouping...you don't want to create systems that promote and facilitate elitism.

    It's dangerous enough if you create powerful support classes, but at least those are class based and you can balance the opportunity cost of taking that class. But making past lives that give party buffs would simply become a pure vet check, it would reward you for only running with players who could provide sizeable party buffs - ones that had ground out lots of party PLs. Dont ever want to see "LF1M party completionist only"
    Such LFMs partly exist right now for vet toons; people want others to be reaper ready or they are friendly vets opening up an LFM to PUGs while they steamroll. Some kind of party buffing PL instead of the constant me-PLbuff-count-my-kills is a simple way to encourage players to embrace other functions in an MMO. Some might ONLY focus on this for their toons; I know I would shift heavily to such a focus. It does not need to be gamebreaking.

    Yes bards buff but so many PLs imitate other classes anyway so such a point is moot.
    Last edited by Saekee; 06-08-2019 at 09:40 PM.
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