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  1. #1

    Default Looking for input on a bizarre Vanguard Paladin build...

    I took a break from the game shortly before White Plume Mountain released, and my 'Paladin' character while running around THF in Ravenloft was fortunate enough to pick up a Sanctity, a Bloodrage Chrism .... and a Divinity Bastard Sword.

    Coming back I've TR'd into a Half-Elf Paladin, as I fancy trying to put together a Vanguard Build using the Divinity sword and going for full-on Glancing Blows. But I'd like to do it with a twist, putting in as much Speed, Doublestrike, Melee Power .... and Sneak Attack as I can (hence the Half-Elf starting point).

    I have a whole bunch of +7 Tomes and Past Lives on this guy, including 3x Rogue, and I'm open to a little multi-classing, but Divinity does its best work if I manage to stay pure.

    Let me hear your ideas!
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Are you looking for anything fancier than "run a pure paladin in Shadowdancer?"
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Are you looking for anything fancier than "run a pure paladin in Shadowdancer?"
    I had a big huge post full of questions that I lost, but in short I was looking for a discussion on the different aspects of Melee DPS and wanted to see how others might shoehorn in all the different variables that make a Paladin Vanguard build 'viable', and then what tradeoffs are required to fit in as much Sneak Attack as possible and include thoughts on balancing Attack Speed-Action Boosts-Doublestrike-Base Melee Damage-Sneak Damage-Bluff Enablement-Fortification Bypass-Critical Power and Gear across the build.

    But I'm happy to start by just seeing a build with your comments right now
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    When Vistani Knife Fighter came out, I posted a tribute build inspired by your Shadowdancer paladin way back in the day. TWF VKF has full offhand procs (80% GTWF + 20% Double Daggers), half-elf adds 2d6 SA per hit (the final d6 is too expensive IMO unless you have a bunch of extra APs from racial TRs), SD adds 6d6 SA, SotEthereal Plane adds...uhhh...a lot.

    So anyway that would be my frame of reference vs Vanguard. You gain +20% attack speed but AFAIK passive shield-bashing is still capped by 1-second cooldown between procs, so your hit rate will still be noticeably lower than TWF Vistani. On the plus side, you still get the free shield-stun procs from VG capstone (10% proc rate so once every ~10 secs) which boosts DPS due to helplessness.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  5. #5

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    Wow, the ShadowDancer Paladin. I’m Honoured you remember that

    That brings back memories. IIRC that was built with the idea of adding as much +D6 Damage to Melee DPS as possible, before the days of Melee Power and real scaling. So long ago.

    And now I find myself inspired by a whole different slant of TWF and different possibilities with SD all over again, especially considering the proposed changes to SD in the discussion thread, and the option to go full INT build with Harper to make use of the abilities.

    I think I’ll start with an evaluation of Attacks Per Swing between S&B and TWF factoring in speed bonuses, double strike, boosting, glancing blows and critical power. This will help give me an appreciation of where the dividing line is between the two styles, and then how much additional benefit one style would get over the other for things like KOTC Light Damage and more importantly Sneak Damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  6. #6

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    Right, after some thoughts and the ED Overhaul previews, I'm going to change tack and go back to my roots of the Half-Elf Paladin using TWF. I looked at attack rates and Vanguard is severely outclassed by TWF, even with its Combat style speed boost, and then especially with VKF adding various amounts of doublestrike and offhand doublestrike.

    I had a good search through my Bank and found some lovely peices of Raid gear, which although are not exactly 'top tier' and are original Gen1 version will let me have some fun. Sanctified Gages, Shroud of Ardent, Boots of Blessed Travels, and bizarrely a pair of Fellblade Longswords!

    I've had some thoughts around doing one of two different paths:

    1. Keep looking into doing Shadow Dancer and base it around Light Armour, Evasion and Sneak Attack Damage, possible even Harper INT based for the way the destiny is being re-worked. I don't think I needed Tenacious Defense anymore from SD thanks to Epic Defensive fighting, so giving up some PRR from wearing Light Armour doesn't seem a huge deal.

    2. Look into doing a potential TWF AoE Paladin 'Crit' build, using Holy Retribution and Confront any Foe from DC to spam Turn based AoE attacks after a dire Charge. Likely a heavy Charisma build needed.

    There's also the possiblity of some (un)holy combination, adding KotC Light Damage and SD Sneak Attack damage to all the melee attacks I can spam....
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

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