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  1. #161
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Temp HP don't suffer from the big Reaper penalty for self healing. I'd rather have Warlock/Barbarian level of temp HP than cure light/moderate/serious/critical spells in most Reaper content.
    A decent lock ( a caster class) could, if they picked shinning through, get a 1k temp hp , 1320-1400 with brilliance, without penalties. On a class that doesn't need to get close to get hit, unlike melees.
    To be fair, i don't see this get used in leveling or endgame reaper 8+ at all.

    A barb, an actual melee class can get 350 hp that lasts through zero impacts and brings a con penalty for every use, no thanks, i rather spend my ap elsewhere.
    Healing comes from others in high reaper, 350 hp means nothing when you're hit for multiple k damage.

    Maybe the devs should come up with a p2w pure 2hf melee class or tree that is as op as the warlock one, maybe that would have a workable temp hp, until the 4th nerbat would criple them offcourse.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    A decent lock ( a caster class) could, if they picked shinning through, get a 1k temp hp , 1320-1400 with brilliance, without penalties.
    No. 1k temporary HP requires having 125 con. Good luck making a "decent lock ( a caster class)" with 125 con.
    Meanwhile, 320-400 from brilliance would require 160-200 con.
    Please kindly post a breakdown how can I achieve these numbers. Thanks.

  3. #163
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    This post should be an eternal example of how the eternal warlock hate train is objectively incorrect about everything, and has zero knowledge of the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    A decent lock ( a caster class) could, if they picked shinning through, get a 1k temp hp , 1320-1400 with brilliance, without penalties. On a class that doesn't need to get close to get hit, unlike melees.

    1k Temp HP is the high end for warlocks, that's for shining through + Brilliance with at least 90 CON, that's an absolutely massive amount of investment, If you're seeing over 1000 temp HP on a lock it's because they're using Staunch with both costs depravity (limited use) AND reduced max hitpoints by 3% per use, so "without penalties" is blatantly wrong

    Also Brilliance/Shining through are both enlightened spirit tree abilities (one is a T5) which means to get them the warlock has to absolutely cripple their ability to to anything except be a meatsponge and AOE down heroic R1s and Epic normal dailies. A pure 20 warlock in ES will not contribute ANYTHING in R5+ quests or R1+ raids where their only use is CC/DC casting.


    To be fair, i don't see this get used in leveling or endgame reaper 8+ at all.

    That's because it's really BAD.

    A barb, an actual melee class can get 350 hp that lasts through zero impacts and brings a con penalty for every use, no thanks, i rather spend my ap elsewhere.
    Healing comes from others in high reaper, 350 hp means nothing when you're hit for multiple k damage.

    it's actually 150 in heroics + 25x10 which is 400 HP at endgame, you're right that it's not really used at endgame because it's not enough, but Blood tribute is one of the most broken abilities of the barbarian for heroic leveling, you're effectively immortal in non-epic content, and as mentioned above warlock's staunch actually has a worse penalty (3% HP vs -1 con)


    Maybe the devs should come up with a p2w pure 2hf melee class or tree that is as op as the warlock one, maybe that would have a workable temp hp, until the 4th nerbat would criple them offcourse.

    Warlocks aren't P2W, they're not even very good as a class except as a niche DC caster, even prenerf warlocks aren't nearly as good as people claimed they were, and continue to claim they are, because they saw a Warlock 1 shot mobs in Vale and decided it was the most broken class ever.

  4. #164
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    This post should be an eternal example of how the eternal warlock hate train is objectively incorrect about everything, and has zero knowledge of the class.
    1k Temp HP is the high end for warlocks, that's for shining through + Brilliance with at least 90 CON, that's an absolutely massive amount of investment, If you're seeing over 1000 temp HP on a lock it's because they're using Staunch with both costs depravity (limited use) AND reduced max hitpoints by 3% per use, so "without penalties" is blatantly wrong
    thanks for the strawman, i however did not talk about staunch, for that specific reason, just shinning through and brilliance, as for 90 con? on a caster-class that doesn't suffer from MAD like a dual wielding paly? not that hard, i did prior to Ravenloft, i bet that due to +8 tomes and higher stats on gear these days that it isn't that hard to pull of anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    Also Brilliance/Shining through are both enlightened spirit tree abilities (one is a T5) which means to get them the warlock has to absolutely cripple their ability to to anything except be a meatsponge and AOE down heroic R1s and Epic normal dailies. A pure 20 warlock in ES will not contribute ANYTHING in R5+ quests or R1+ raids where their only use is CC/DC casting
    That's why i mentioned not seeing this anymore, burst locks with 1k+ temp hp were popular during slavelords, the reason i pointed it out was because a caster glass can get a 1k temp HP but a pure melee (that, thanks to rage can't take precision, can't cast spells, can't use scrolls&wands, can't use most potions, can't even use the boarding pass until dropping rage) but they only get a 400 temp hp and with a severe penalty.
    do you see that disconect? at all?
    a 1000+hp on a class that doesn't need to get near vs a class with 400 that does need to get near enemy mobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    it's actually 150 in heroics + 25x10 which is 400 HP at endgame, you're right that it's not really used at endgame because it's not enough, but Blood tribute is one of the most broken abilities of the barbarian for heroic leveling, you're effectively immortal in non-epic content, and as mentioned above warlock's staunch actually has a worse penalty (3% HP vs -1 con)
    Yep, 400, i blame the coffee or lack there off.
    However i never mentioned the warlock's staunch(should have been called stench, i knew this class reeked XD)

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    Warlocks aren't P2W, they're not even very good as a class except as a niche DC caster, even prenerf warlocks aren't nearly as good as people claimed they were, and continue to claim they are, because they saw a Warlock 1 shot mobs in Vale and decided it was the most broken class ever.
    Warlocks were incredibly op when they came out, before the (4 now?) nerfs. Likely to boost sales or some gross oversight.
    They were the go to class for leveling and endgame farming (in the hands of the competent and lame alike)
    With all the nerfs and buffs to other classes they don't see so hot anymore but they were very op and very much the essence of p2w, as far as p2w goes in a coop mmo like this.
    Even on EE slavelords (or is it LE?) a well build warlock could wipe entire rooms with a cone and 2 bursts, when it came out
    Last edited by lyrecono; 06-14-2019 at 01:03 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  5. #165
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    thanks for the strawman, i however did not talk about staunch, for that specific reason, just shinning through and brilliance, as for 90 con? on a caster-class that doesn't suffer from MAD like a dual wielding paly? not that hard, i did prior to Ravenloft, i bet that due to +8 tomes and higher stats on gear these days that it isn't that hard to pull of anymore.



    That's why i mentioned not seeing this anymore, burst locks with 1k+ temp hp were popular during slavelords, the reason i pointed it out was because a caster glass can get a 1k temp HP but a pure melee (that, thanks to rage can't take precision, can't cast spells, can't use scrolls&wands, can't use most potions, can't even use the boarding pass until dropping rage) but they only get a 400 temp hp and with a severe penalty.
    do you see that disconect? at all?
    a 1000+hp on a class that doesn't need to get near vs a class with 400 that does need to get near enemy mobs.


    Yep, 400, i blame the coffee or lack there off.
    However i never mentioned the warlock's staunch(should have been called stench, i knew this class reeked XD)



    Warlocks were incredibly op when they came out, before the (4 now?) nerfs. Likely to boost sales or some gross oversight.
    They were the go to class for leveling and endgame farming (in the hands of the competent and lame alike)
    With all the nerfs and buffs to other classes they don't see so hot anymore but they were very op and very much the essence of p2w, as far as p2w goes in a coop mmo like this.
    Even on EE slavelords (or is it LE?) a well build warlock could wipe entire rooms with a cone and 2 bursts, when it came out
    It is a false argument. Not only is that warlocks can only get high procs of hps gimping their build, it's that many 1000-hp procs are from a legendary affirmation LGS weapon, which can also be built by melees. The barbarians additionally have secured procs (those of LGS are random) of 1000 hps when they use the rage with a swap weapon with the blood feast filigrees, so yes you can get procs of 1000 hps, as many times as rages you have

    Warlocks have suffered repeated nerfs and are no longer op, I do not understand the mania of bringing them up now continuously in comparisons of how weak the melees are. What does it mean for the barbarians that warlocks had a capacity that they no longer have? A cha warlock does not have 90 Con, it does not make sense to build castles in the air

    While I do not disagree on solving the problems that have the thf, as I do not disagree in solving the problems that the other archetypes have (melees are not the only ones who have problems), your anti-warlock, anti-caster crusade no has reason to be.
    Last edited by Iriale; 06-14-2019 at 04:13 AM.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    Even on EE slavelords (or is it LE?) a well build warlock could wipe entire rooms with a cone and 2 bursts, when it came out
    Meanwhile a well build barbarian needs a Dire Charge and one or two cleaves to wipe entire rooms. Gasp.
    You're hopeless. Keep on hating.

  7. #167
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    Make primal avatar useful for druid casters
    - Stormrage needs work. Reduce cost to 10. Allow all metas. DC wisdom based evocation. How does targeting work? Does it try to zap allies and thus fails? Make it stun enemies on a failed save, daze on success.

    Shiradi is ranged, Fury now targets THF, Primal avatar has stuff for TWF and unarmed. Where does SWF fit in?
    (Yeah it probably didn't exist when EDs were introduced.)
    Add it somewhere. For example primal avatar: opening Balanced Attacks / Symmetric Strike / Nature's Fury / Evasion to SWF would be nice.

    Or open Balanced Attacks / Symmetric Strike / Nature's Fury / Evasion to Elemental forms. There's just no love for elemental forms

    Tier 5 and 6 of Primal Avatar has lot of room for new potent abilities.

    Perhaps spice up fighting in elemental form: Attacks deal extra fire / cold damage, +1 per Natural Lore; scales with spell power.

    Balance restored:
    Passive aura: Nearby enemies take penalties. Effects stack.
    Lawful enemies take -3 penalty to AC and saving throws
    Chaotic enemies take -3 penalty to AC and saving throws
    Good enemies take -3 penalty to AC and saving throws
    Evil enemies take -3 penalty to AC and saving throws
    Undead enemies take -3 penalty to AC and saving throws


    Enemy of Unlife: Undead enemies take penalty to saves

  8. #168
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    It is a false argument. Not only is that warlocks can only get high procs of hps gimping their build, it's that many 1000-hp procs are from a legendary affirmation LGS weapon, which can also be built by melees. The barbarians additionally have secured procs (those of LGS are random) of 1000 hps when they use the rage with a swap weapon with the blood feast filigrees, so yes you can get procs of 1000 hps, as many times as rages you have

    Warlocks have suffered repeated nerfs and are no longer op, I do not understand the mania of bringing them up now continuously in comparisons of how weak the melees are. What does it mean for the barbarians that warlocks had a capacity that they no longer have? A cha warlock does not have 90 Con, it does not make sense to build castles in the air

    While I do not disagree on solving the problems that have the thf, as I do not disagree in solving the problems that the other archetypes have (melees are not the only ones who have problems), your anti-warlock, anti-caster crusade no has reason to be.
    No iriale, burst locks were viable prior to reaper (and nerfs), it wasn't gimped by any means, they could do amazing dps, for a burst lock with 800+ spellpower. i was talking about a specific build in a specific time period.
    The thing is the nerfs and shift in the meta towards dc based casting to hold/instakill mobs killed of this particular build, from an endgame or reaper standpoint.
    But building a powerfull warlock with a 1000+ temp hitpoints (without legendary affirmation LGS weapon) was relatively easy and easy to play. And yes, by using a legendary affirmation LGS weapon, you could run around with 2k to 2.4k temp hp. i loved bashing the ship dummy and hitting the buffs just before joining pugs and hear how jaws dropped due to the hp.

    As for barbarian bloodfeast and legendary affirmation LGS weapon procs;
    bloodfeast gives you a 1000 hp at cap for about 1 or 2 hits, it goes away really fast, the next 10 to 15 minutes, you're waiting for rage to expire or you need to dismiss it manually.
    legendary affirmation LGS is unreliable and requires constant weapon switches, causing lag and slows down dps. i don't know what the issue is with sentient weapons but they seem to cause even more item swap lag then other items, wich is worse in combat when 5 other people are around causing lag of their own.
    Anyways, clerics, druids (and maybe bards, mine isn't in epics to try out their version of rage from warchanter) can also use bloodfeast and any class in the game can use a legendary affirmation LGS weapon.
    To add insult to injury, those classes can cast while raging......

    But you seem to miss the point, i'm arguing from a design perspective, why does a caster class get so much initial love and attention and a 1k+ temp hp (at cap) and the actual melee class get 400, in a game where melee trash and bosses hit harder then ranged mobs and under normal situations a melee (tank or otherwise) is the first one in the room to be targeted (so the caster can safely come in and hold/cc the trash). from a design perspective, this is odd.
    And don't shoehorn me into an anti warlock or caster crowd, i dislike the devs for putting so much attention into casters and constantly upping the difficulty by adding dps and hp on mobs so that the most viable way of dealing with them is magic (cc&instakills) and subsequently hand the mans to do so to caster on a silver platter (a useful reaper tree, good enh and proper gear among other things), i don't hate the class nor the people that play them, but the dev actions killed the beefy frontline melee dps (not tanks), it is not viable in high reaper the same way some other play-styles are.
    All because of an game engine/A.I. that easy to exploit with some of these playstyles and the dev's bad way of trying to make things difficult. Just adding to a mobs melee damage, hp and nerfing the players self healing means little to playstyles that aren't getting hit as often.

    Now if there weren't any reaper trees than i wouldn't have bothered but it's nigh impossible to fill a non reaper group in my playtime and parties have expectations when you try to join, i can't escape reaper as an endgame player.




    And for all of the devs attempts to add melee options to casters and skill based classes, it diminishes the original melee classes.

    Artificer has melee options,
    The bard has 2 melee trees, warchanter has some nice cc and few builds exceed the swashbucklers attack speed
    Cleric has an amazing maul options and really good melee domains, a enh tree is available to them.
    A Druid has 2 melee trees and is one of the better melees out there btw, while still having access to 9 spell levels.
    Fav soul, has nice melee options with the deity feats.
    The Warlock has a nice melee tree, good defenses and a powerful set of bursts and auras
    The wizard and sorc have a solid melee tree to back up their 9 spell levels, even if it's just for cc, buffs and heals (if warforged) instead of instakilling.

    while fighters and paladins are often regulated to tanks, the barb truly got the shaft with already weaker enh compared to other classes, further watered down from their already modest proposal due to incorrect feedback. And with weak i mean weak for the content they were intended to play in), i don't see a runescarred bezerker running around in ddo, do you? Where is my dual throwing axe tree?
    Why do the caster&skill classes like warlock, bard, druid, wizard, sorc, arty (especially arty) get so much attention and melee trees while the fighter, paladin and barbarian are left to rot, the ED aimed at barbarians is mostly used by ranged characters, 2hf attacks too slow to proc special abilities so many had to switch to cleaves and twitching and when the meta changed further i have seen many melee players switch builds or toons.

    Where is the fun in building a frontline 2hf dps melee? if i wanted to hit held dummies i'll hit the ship dummy or tr into a glass jawed ranger or rogue. i want to trade blows, not avoid one like i'm made of paper.
    it's that imbalance i speak of, the way build diversity has been killed off in high reaper.




    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Meanwhile a well build barbarian needs a Dire Charge and one or two cleaves to wipe entire rooms. Gasp.
    You're hopeless. Keep on hating.
    it isn't hate, i'm merely questioning the devs intent. see above
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    thanks for the strawman, i however did not talk about staunch, for that specific reason, just shinning through and brilliance, as for 90 con? on a caster-class that doesn't suffer from MAD like a dual wielding paly? not that hard, i did prior to Ravenloft, i bet that due to +8 tomes and higher stats on gear these days that it isn't that hard to pull of anymore.
    Are you really standing by your incorrect claim? Just accept that you are wrong. no warlock is hitting those level of temps without staunch.

  10. #170
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    Are you really standing by your incorrect claim? Just accept that you are wrong. no warlock is hitting those level of temps without staunch.
    Shining Through: Gain a Sacred bonus to Temporary Hitpoints equal to 8x your Constitution Score that lasts for up to 10 minutes.
    Brilliance: Your Aura provides you and nearby allies with a Determination bonus to Temporary Hitpoints equal to your Constitution score. Level 20+ characters receive twice as many hitpoints.

    add in a 100 con: (easy to get with buffs, tomes, etc, i bet people can get a lot more now)
    8X a 100=800 hp
    2X100=200 hp
    200+800= a 1000 hp or 1k hp

    however, i was talking about the past

    the era i was talking about the mid-nerf warlock
    wich added 12 x your Constitution Score that lasts for up to 10 minutes. at wich point i could get a 98 con
    98X12=1176 hp, just from shining through, meaning Brilliance will add another 196 ==>1372 hp, in a pre nerf, pre reaper era.

    if you go back further, 15X con score was the amount the devs came out with.
    pre-nerf warlock was op as all heffel.

    You seem to be focusing on the wrong thing though.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  11. #171
    Community Member Strambotica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Make primal avatar useful for druid casters
    - Stormrage needs work. Reduce cost to 10. Allow all metas. DC wisdom based evocation. How does targeting work? Does it try to zap allies and thus fails? Make it stun enemies on a failed save, daze on success.
    +1

    Planning a caster druid build, notice that the DC is outdated...

  12. #172
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Make primal avatar useful for druid casters
    - Stormrage needs work. Reduce cost to 10. Allow all metas. DC wisdom based evocation. How does targeting work? Does it try to zap allies and thus fails? Make it stun enemies on a failed save, daze on success.
    This isn't a DOT targeting works like the spell you are casting. Think of this as adding 10d20 Lightning damage to every spell you cast for 18 seconds.

    So buff with Stormrage then cast your rotation of SLAs (5 spells) each spell also does lightning damage now so it's an extra 25-50d20 to your rotation.

    I don't think this is underpowered, I just think it's a pain to maintain.

  13. #173
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    I keep seeing people referring to two handed fighting being "broken." This suggests that something that is supposed to be working isn't working. It seems to be that people are simply complaining that it isn't powerful enough, or that it is ineffective at recharging certain abilities. I could agree that cleaves should be able to doublestrike, and glancing blows should be able to charge abilities that are charged on hit. Disagree with glancing blows doublestriking or being able to crit. I know the powercreep is at freight train levels these days, but can we just keep the acceleration on a steep incline instead of going fully off a cliff?

    I've never understood why the shiradi procs didn't scale with spellpower for ranged the way they do with spells. Other elemental damage abilities do this so why not make these the same? If you make it scale with ranged power it will indeed destroy any efficacy with this destiny and casting. Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned making them scale with 200% spellpower. That sounds like a smashing idea, as a potency item would make it viable for ranged, and it would also scale this destiny upward for casters to make this viable for them again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Shiradi is ranged, Fury now targets THF, Primal avatar has stuff for TWF and unarmed. Where does SWF fit in?
    Based on the current feat requirements, SWF lives firmly in the Martial Sphere and is not at all related to the Primal Sphere. One could make an argument for not having any of the martial fighting styles be in the primal sphere at all, but as currently built I would say that if you are a two-weapon, unarmed or beast fighter you twist from Primal Avatar, if you are a two-handed fighter, you twist from Fury of the Wild. Single-weapon fighters wouldn't twist anything unless they are swashbucklers and need shield stuff, in which case they would twist from Unyielding Sentinel. Given the target classes for the primal sphere (Barbarian, Druid and Ranger), there seems zero need to fit single-weapon fighting in here. You could make an argument for putting it either under Legendary Dreadnought or Fatesinger, but under the primal sphere it seems a bit out of place.

  15. #175
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    The Avatar transformation would be cool to include:

    wolf & bear spirit
    elemental air, fire, water, earth spirit

    with some thematic boosts.

    the tree is clumsy

  16. #176
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    I keep seeing people referring to two handed fighting being "broken." This suggests that something that is supposed to be working isn't working. It seems to be that people are simply complaining that it isn't powerful enough, or that it is ineffective at recharging certain abilities. I could agree that cleaves should be able to doublestrike, and glancing blows should be able to charge abilities that are charged on hit. Disagree with glancing blows doublestriking or being able to crit. I know the powercreep is at freight train levels these days, but can we just keep the acceleration on a steep incline instead of going fully off a cliff?

    I've never understood why the shiradi procs didn't scale with spellpower for ranged the way they do with spells. Other elemental damage abilities do this so why not make these the same? If you make it scale with ranged power it will indeed destroy any efficacy with this destiny and casting. Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned making them scale with 200% spellpower. That sounds like a smashing idea, as a potency item would make it viable for ranged, and it would also scale this destiny upward for casters to make this viable for them again.
    It is broken, not working.
    The devs are working on it as stated by steelstar and cordovan in this and the other ED threads.
    It's not just about being strong enough, wich isn't but completely broken, double strike, wich is put on gear in massive quantities doesn't work, attack speed is so low that work arounds have to be used to make the fighting style somewhat bareble, the glancing blow damage is so low that it doesn't even register on high reaper.
    The ED for 2hf is so useless due to 2hf not workimg, it was mostly used by ranged toons for their fast attack rate charges the abilities so fast.
    If you want glancing blows to charge special abilities, you need to allow them to vorpal at least, because it's what charges them.
    The problem is hitting anything with those on high reaper (bab is lower then on full casters, thanks to a particular buff spell).

    And i'm realy sorry but power creep? 2hf is the weakest fighting style due to all these issues whille 2wf and swf have all kinds of perks over 2hf (like runearms, orbs, bucklers, off hand debuffers, more augment slots, better enh, offhand proc weapons, faster attack wich proc special abilities, etc)
    All things considered, they are behind the curve and needs a vitamin shot the size of texas.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    add in a 100 con: (easy to get with buffs, tomes, etc, i bet people can get a lot more now)
    ********. You don't get 100 Con easy with buffs, tomes, etc. You absolutely don't get 100 Con if you're DC casting as a warlock. To even approach 100 Con you'd need to invest enhancement AP into Con, leveling stats into Con, and ED AP into Con. Without that, you're not getting there, even with tomes.

    A 72-78 Con is more realistic for an end game Warlock who isn't running a tank build. You don't need to make **** up to try and prove a point. There's nothing magic about 1,000 temp hitpoints, as you said, they don't last very long in mid to high reaper anyway. 700-800 temp hitpoints is is more realistic for a warlock that invested in Shining Through. That's a warlock who isn't pew pewing at range, but is standing in the middle of melee, and is likely taking hits. Warlocks who go T5 SE for SLA FoD and Capstone SE for Devour are standing back and range and are locked out of Shining Through. They're also generally in the TS tree for utterdark and strong pact and aren't running Brilliance either. The difference in survivability between a casting warlock in SE/TS and a Bursting warlock in ES/TS is massive. The thing is, the higher you go into reaper, the better being the 1400 hitpoint, no temp hitpoint build is as having better DCs to mass hold and insta-kill is far better than being a 2200 hitpoint burster who has to be in melee range to do damage and will die in 3 hits anyway.

    You're spewing hate over warlocks for their performance in heroic leveling and R1. Please, don't look at Sorcerers, you'll probably never have a happy thought again.

  18. #178
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyrecono View Post
    It is broken, not working.
    The devs are working on it as stated by steelstar and cordovan in this and the other ED threads.
    It's not just about being strong enough, wich isn't but completely broken, double strike, wich is put on gear in massive quantities doesn't work, attack speed is so low that work arounds have to be used to make the fighting style somewhat bareble, the glancing blow damage is so low that it doesn't even register on high reaper.
    The ED for 2hf is so useless due to 2hf not workimg, it was mostly used by ranged toons for their fast attack rate charges the abilities so fast.
    If you want glancing blows to charge special abilities, you need to allow them to vorpal at least, because it's what charges them.
    The problem is hitting anything with those on high reaper (bab is lower then on full casters, thanks to a particular buff spell).

    And i'm realy sorry but power creep? 2hf is the weakest fighting style due to all these issues whille 2wf and swf have all kinds of perks over 2hf (like runearms, orbs, bucklers, off hand debuffers, more augment slots, better enh, offhand proc weapons, faster attack wich proc special abilities, etc)
    All things considered, they are behind the curve and needs a vitamin shot the size of texas.
    You're exaggerating this issue, its not as bad as you think, most of the issue is because the meta favors melee single target damage right now. A bit of scaling with melee power 110%-150%, or letting them have x2 damage on crit. Is all that is really needed and that could even cause a massive issue where THF is the only good choice because its also has the AOE advantage over other styles.

    And your insistence that Doublestrike and Alacrity don't work on THF is just wrong they are actually the most important stats for THF you want to bring up your weakness as much as possible.
    Last edited by Grailhawk; 06-20-2019 at 02:48 PM.

  19. #179
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zretchen View Post
    ********. You don't get 100 Con easy with buffs, tomes, etc. You absolutely don't get 100 Con if you're DC casting as a warlock. To even approach 100 Con you'd need to invest enhancement AP into Con, leveling stats into Con, and ED AP into Con. Without that, you're not getting there, even with tomes.

    A 72-78 Con is more realistic for an end game Warlock who isn't running a tank build. You don't need to make **** up to try and prove a point. There's nothing magic about 1,000 temp hitpoints, as you said, they don't last very long in mid to high reaper anyway. 700-800 temp hitpoints is is more realistic for a warlock that invested in Shining Through. That's a warlock who isn't pew pewing at range, but is standing in the middle of melee, and is likely taking hits. Warlocks who go T5 SE for SLA FoD and Capstone SE for Devour are standing back and range and are locked out of Shining Through. They're also generally in the TS tree for utterdark and strong pact and aren't running Brilliance either. The difference in survivability between a casting warlock in SE/TS and a Bursting warlock in ES/TS is massive. The thing is, the higher you go into reaper, the better being the 1400 hitpoint, no temp hitpoint build is as having better DCs to mass hold and insta-kill is far better than being a 2200 hitpoint burster who has to be in melee range to do damage and will die in 3 hits anyway.

    You're spewing hate over warlocks for their performance in heroic leveling and R1. Please, don't look at Sorcerers, you'll probably never have a happy thought again.
    Learn to read, i was talking about burst locks, prior to reaper mode and i know a 100con could be achieved because i did it myself.

    Again, i wasn't falking about the current way most warlocks are build and played in reaper, then again, reaperer isn't the end all, be all of ddo, some vets have stopped playing reaper altogether, allowing for more builds.

    I'm not hating on warlocks, i'm critical of devs that initially put in this level of defencive power in to a caster class while some meleee classes and playstyles get left behind.

    As for sorcs, yeah, they are distingly op in low reaper heroics, i have a thiefling one running around in heroics (with 82 rp), farming a racial lives, it's disgustingly easy and boring when i play low reaper, nothing gets close and i usually exit the quest with 50% of my sp left. I'm not even using a evo dc boost item yet
    Although the trees could use an upgrade, t5 is terrible exept for the sla and the cores are the only usefull stuff, exept for the crit %.
    However, if this is any indication about the ED changes, sorcs will have a more fun time in epics too. I might even dust of my origional sorc.

    Still, playing that sorc was a snorefest in low reaper compared to a 2hf melee, who usualy rule the fist 10 levels, it' incredibly easy to not get hit, not die, and nuke your way through, the way a melee couldn't.
    A 2hf barb was supposed to be the equivalent to a sorc (each in their own playstyle) however, due to the high incomming damage, playing ranged is playing it safe. And with far superior dps too.
    I agree that on high reaper, a dc based instakil is prefered over a dps caster build due to the large pool of hp on bosses and the limited sp on casters. But for a quick leveling build on r1, it's more then fine.
    But next time, don't think critisism on the devs over design chooises on a particular class or playstyles have anything to do with hating on such a class, they are stronger in the meta, yes. But that also means players will gravitate towards them and enjoy them.
    Somethimes a bit much so that they get a bit overly attached and skip over the part that i was commenting on the first version of warlock(published more then 2 years ago?).
    I sometimes think some devs have been a bit out of touch with some of the more 2hf frontline melee scene and take it for granted that we're there. We want that same fun back we had years ago. I have seen the number of good melees drop drasticly over the last couple of years due to some playstyles being better in reaper. I'm merely pointing these issues out, thats not hate for a class but love for a different playstyle, one that was abbandoned by the devs whille the meta outgrew it.

    But all of this is besides the point, due to the exploititive nature of ranged players vs enemy ai and the punishing nature of melee, the fact is that some playstyles are easier and some devs never seemed to have noticed or cared when making the first itteration of warocks or when they are buffing their favored class/playstyle again. While some playstyles were rotting away.
    The entire reason we're having this discussion in these ED threads is partially because of those issues
    I have seen some suggestions made by the devs to help out 2hf melees and although some of it was flawed (the recharge rate on 2handed vorpals being an issue), the devs at least gave us an "we're aware and working on it, more details will follow soon" awnser. Wich is already a lot betrer then the sharn loot thread for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

  20. #180
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    You're exaggerating this issue, its not as bad as you think, most of the issue is because the meta favors melee single target damage right now. A bit of scaling with melee power 110%-150%, or letting them have x2 damage on crit. Is all that is really needed and that could even cause a massive issue where THF is the only good choice because its also has the AOE advantage over other styles.

    And your insistence that Doublestrike and Alacrity don't work on THF is just wrong they are actually the most important stats for THF you want to bring up your weakness as much as possible.
    Not really,

    2hf is the lowest dps playstyle for a couple of reasons.
    Glancing blow damage falls to the side on high reaper, making it useless.
    Double strike doesn't work on glancing blows and cleaves (rememer, a 2hf could easily have7-8 aoe cleave-like attacks, combined with a few single target abilities), cleaving and twitching has always been used to generate the dps to avoid the extremely slow atack rate. If you're auto attack for doublestrikes on regular attacks (because the glancing blows give none anyway), then you're wasting dps and the parties time and resources.
    Twitching and cleaving also add battlefield mobility to the mix, handy for classes with less physical defences then some of the caster classes.
    Last edited by lyrecono; 06-21-2019 at 03:00 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

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