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  1. #1

    Default 2019 ED Pass: Martial Sphere

    Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

    We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.
    • First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
    • Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability
      • You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.

    • Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


    Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

    That said, this is the thread for Martial Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

    Grandmaster of Flowers
    This tree needed a lot of love. It was only OK for Monks, and really not-great for everyone else. There's now a fair bit of twist fodder in here, and fewer things require strict centering. Top-tier actives became massively more powerful with the changes, so they were scaled back somewhat to reflect being able to use them much more often.

    • Inner Focus and Wholeness of Spirit now allow for movement during use
    • Wholeness of Spirit has its cooldown reduced to 2 minutes
    • Ki actives (the left column) now scale with the higher of Melee or Ranged Power
    • Ki actives get Stunning bonuses added to their DC calculations
    • Ki actives can now be used under Antimagic, as they are not spells
    • Ki actives are no longer linked in a line
    • Lily Petal and Orchid Blossom now care about levels 26-30 in terms of scaling with character level (was previously capping at 25)
    • Lily Petal now grants 5 Ki instead of costing Ki
    • A Scattering of Petals no longer grants Dodge, and instead grants +100 PRR and MRR for 12 seconds.
      • A Scattering of Petals also reduces enemy Fortification by 200% for 12 seconds, and affected creatures lose immunity to Sneak Attack for that duration.
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a detect the same size as Drifting Lotus (i.e. twice as large).
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a 90 second cooldown.

    • A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.
    • Running with the Wind now adds 2/4/6% Doublestrike to everyone (no more stance requirement)
    • Hail of Blows now adds +3 melee damage in addition to its doublestrike
    • Walking with Waves no longer requires Ocean stance for its Dodge bonus
    • Standing with Stone no longer requires Mountain Stance for its PRR.
    • Dancing with Flame no longer requires Sun Stance for its (w) bonus.
    • Everything is Nothing moves to a 3 minute cooldown, no longer requires charging.
      • Everything is Nothing now has a smaller detect (double the size of Drifting Lotus, but still smaller than its existing version), and hits a maximum of 4 enemies. This is for both balance and performance reasons, as it significantly taxes the game on use & will now be used more frequently.

    • NEW: T2: The Flower's Thorn: +3[w] attack. 6 second cooldown. Does not require Centering. Has cool petal FX. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    • NEW: T5: Devastating Critical (+1 Critical Multiplier on a 19-20) (1 Rank, 1AP)


    Legendary Dreadnought
    This Destiny is very good in its current incarnation. We opened up some of the restrictiveness of the two attacks and fixed an ability that did nothing/wasn't good. For balance vs. other destinies, we did diminish some of their damage vs. Helpless targets only.

    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Power Attack to be active to use.
    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Cleave and Great Cleave (though those feats still reset the cooldown of Momentum Swing).
    • Lay Waste now adds Trip Bonuses to its DC.
    • Unmoveable and Thick Skinned are no longer Action Boosts (they didn't really act like them anyway, they were just using their charge counters). Instead, they are instead simply restricted to their respective cooldowns (which are unchanged).
    • Tactical Genius (which never really worked) is now: Unusual Tactics: Passive: You are a studied master of a wide variety of methods for gaining the upper hand. +2 to the DCs of your Tactical Feats, DC of Rune Arm shots, DC of Breath Weapons, DC of Assasinate, DC of Poisons, and +2 to the Perform, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skills.
    • Combat Brute's Helplessness damage is now 15%.


    Shadowdancer
    This tree needed help. It had a lot of cool things in it that were nearly impossible to use, either because DC calculations were broken or because you needed Shadow Charges, which were hard to get and even harder to keep. Those are gone now. Cooldowns on some things were adjusted to reflect the fact that you don't need to juggle Shadow Charges anymore, but by and large the whole tree should work a lot better now. There are still a few outstanding things that don't shine (Dark Imbuement, looking at you) but in playtests the new version of Shadowdancer has been viable.
    • Shadow Lance now adds Assassinate Bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance now uses full character level in its DC calculation
    • Shadow Lance no longer requires Shadow Charges to blind
    • Shadow Lance's Blind is no longer based on chance, but tries to apply on each hit
    • Shadow Lance's damage now scales with 400% of the higher of your Melee and Ranged Power
    • Shadow Lance's damage is now (4d8+18)/(6d8+24)/(8d8+30)
    • Shadow Lance's cooldown is now 30/20/10 seconds.
    • Shrouding Strike/Shot no longer mark the target for Shadow Charges; instead, they apply a stack of Improved Destruction.
    • Shrouding Strike/Shot now have a 6-second cooldown.
    • Consume now adds Assassinate bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Consume now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation
    • Consume no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Consume now has a 3-minute cooldown.
    • Consume should now more consistently pick living enemies to target (and no longer pick doors/barrels/misc non-enemy targets).
    • Shadow Manipulation now adds Assassinate bonuses to its DC calculation
    • Shadow Manipulation now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation.
    • Shadow Manipulation no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Shadow Manipulation now has a 3-minute cooldown.
    • Shadow Manipulation no longer requires Cloak of Shadow.
    • Cloak of Shadows no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Cloak of Shadows no longer requires Shrouding Strike/Shot
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot now has a 12-second cooldown.
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot now has a DC of (10 + Character level + INT or DEX mod + Assassinate bonuses)
    • Executioner's Strike/Shot can now be used while under Antimagic.
    • You can now move while using Executioner's Strike/Shot
    • Dark Imbuement no longer uses Dark Imbuement Charges, and just functions on a cooldown.
    • Dark Imbuement now has a 2-minute cooldown.
    • Dark Imbuement now costs 1AP.
    • Dark Imbuement no longer requires Shadow Form.
    • Shadow Form no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    • Shadow Form's tooltip now clarifies that it is considered a Major Form.
    • Shadow Form now costs 1AP.
    • Untouchable now passively grants 3% Dodge and +1 Critical Damage Multiplier on rolls of 19-20.
    Last edited by Steelstar; 06-03-2019 at 01:04 PM. Reason: added rank/ap data to new skills
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  2. #2
    Community Member Paisheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    ou're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

    Grandmaster of Flowers
    This tree needed a lot of love. It was only OK for Monks, and really not-great for everyone else. There's now a fair bit of twist fodder in here, and fewer things require strict centering. Top-tier actives became massively more powerful with the changes, so they were scaled back somewhat to reflect being able to use them much more often.

    • Inner Focus and Wholeness of Spirit now allow for movement during use
    • Wholeness of Spirit has its cooldown reduced to 2 minutes
    • Ki actives (the left column) now scale with the higher of Melee or Ranged Power
    • Ki actives get Stunning bonuses added to their DC calculations
    • Ki actives can now be used under Antimagic, as they are not spells
    • Ki actives are no longer linked in a line
    • Lily Petal and Orchid Blossom now care about levels 26-30 in terms of scaling with character level (was previously capping at 25)
    • Lily Petal now grants 5 Ki instead of costing Ki
    • A Scattering of Petals no longer grants Dodge, and instead grants +100 PRR and MRR for 12 seconds.
      • A Scattering of Petals also reduces enemy Fortification by 200% for 12 seconds, and affected creatures lose immunity to Sneak Attack for that duration.
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a detect the same size as Drifting Lotus (i.e. twice as large).
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a 90 second cooldown.

    • A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.
    • Running with the Wind now adds 2/4/6% Doublestrike to everyone (no more stance requirement)
    • Hail of Blows now adds +3 melee damage in addition to its doublestrike
    • Walking with Waves no longer requires Ocean stance for its Dodge bonus
    • Standing with Stone no longer requires Mountain Stance for its PRR.
    • Dancing with Flame no longer requires Sun Stance for its (w) bonus.
    • Everything is Nothing moves to a 3 minute cooldown, no longer requires charging.
      • Everything is Nothing now has a smaller detect (double the size of Drifting Lotus, but still smaller than its existing version), and hits a maximum of 4 enemies. This is for both balance and performance reasons, as it significantly taxes the game on use & will now be used more frequently.

    • NEW: T2: The Flower's Thorn: +3[w] attack. 6 second cooldown. Does not require Centering. Has cool petal FX.
    • NEW: T5: Devastating Critical (+1 Critical Multiplier on a 19-20)
    This is great news on GMOF and the other cores. I am generally very pleased with GMOF changes. However let me address 1 or 2 concerns and give a suggestion or two.

    1. EIN seems way too restricted to eliminating only 4 creatures. Most caster spells do much more than that and this is the top tier destiny ability. I haven't looked yet but are you scaling back other highest tier destiny abilities? Also does stunning impact this DC of EIN as well -- otherwise it is even weaker without at least 100 Wisdom? Please don't limit the number of mobs it can take out since you are scaling back its range. I mean will it be any different than essentially Frog now? If you must scale it -- I would think 10 mobs would be at the very least a reasonable amount to impact. Personally I have never seen an EIN affect game performance and I've done thousands i'm sure.

    2. Ocean -- there is plenty of dodge available everywhere -- this should be an increase to Dodge cap or both Power and Cap.

    3. Does Scattering of Petals increase the MMR (and PRR) increase cap for 12 seconds as well? Capped at 50 for monks and other cloth wearers means that will be quite useless....since Monk is it's "designed" destiny this needs to increase both power and cap.

    4. Will Scattering of Petals still blind or is this replaced by the enemy reduction?

    5. Final Question: Does the left "line" scale with up to 100, 200% melee power or is it unlimited?

    Overall awesome work and look forward to the challenge of reworking points in this destiny with so many nice changes.

  3. #3
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paisheng View Post
    1. EIN seems way too restricted to eliminating only 4 creatures. Most caster spells do much more than that and this is the top tier destiny ability. I haven't looked yet but are you scaling back other highest tier destiny abilities? Also does stunning impact this DC of EIN as well -- otherwise it is even weaker without at least 100 Wisdom? Please don't limit the number of mobs it can take out since you are scaling back its range. I mean will it be any different than essentially Frog now? If you must scale it -- I would think 10 mobs would be at the very least a reasonable amount to impact. Personally I have never seen an EIN affect game performance and I've done thousands i'm sure.
    Frog has a 1 minute cooldown and can hit 5 mobs. The new EIN has a 3 minute cooldown and 4 mobs. Maybe either increase the amount of mobs or decrease the cooldown.

  4. #4
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Legendary Dreadnought
    This Destiny is very good in its current incarnation. We opened up some of the restrictiveness of the two attacks and fixed an ability that did nothing/wasn't good. For balance vs. other destinies, we did diminish some of their damage vs. Helpless targets only.

    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Power Attack to be active to use.
    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Cleave and Great Cleave (though those feats still reset the cooldown of Momentum Swing).
    • Lay Waste now adds Trip Bonuses to its DC.
    • Unmoveable and Thick Skinned are no longer Action Boosts (they didn't really act like them anyway, they were just using their charge counters). Instead, they are instead simply restricted to their respective cooldowns (which are unchanged).
    • Tactical Genius (which never really worked) is now: Unusual Tactics: Passive: You are a studied master of a wide variety of methods for gaining the upper hand. +2 to the DCs of your Tactical Feats, DC of Rune Arm shots, DC of Breath Weapons, DC of Assasinate, DC of Poisons, and +2 to the Perform, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skills.
    • Combat Brute's Helplessness damage is now 15%.
    That Combat Brute change is a significant nerf.
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  5. #5
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    Default Shadow Manipulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    [*]Shadow Manipulation now has a 3-minute cooldown.

    Shadow Manipulation has to me been the most interesting and funnest part of the tree. Acquiring shadow charges for it was never really the issue. It's already a single target effect which lasts no longer than 6 seconds on high reaper. Once used you have those very few precious seconds to set up a proper assassinate attempt.

    The two minute cooldown was already a drag on a fun playstyle. Increasing it by an extra minute will just add to more wait time before we can act in a measured situation. Not all of us just zerg or simply run into a room just to see what may happen.

    It was fine the way it was aside from the already longish cooldown, which is the major limiting factor for it's usefulness. It would have hoped to see added abilities to it, possibly more than a single target or a longer charm effect, but limiting it's useage by a another half, significantly cuts into an assassin's enjoyment of the game and play-worthyness.

    Thank you.

  6. #6
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    That Combat Brute change is a significant nerf.
    If they wanted to make other Destinies appealing they had no other choice, and they still may need to nerf Action Hero to make other Destinies appealing time will tell.

  7. #7
    Community Member Paisheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post
    Frog has a 1 minute cooldown and can hit 5 mobs. The new EIN has a 3 minute cooldown and 4 mobs. Maybe either increase the amount of mobs or decrease the cooldown.
    Agreed. Ein should be more powerful than Frog considerably. It should have cooldown of 1 min and also hit at least 5 mobs, though I wouldn't mind the 3 min timer if it impacted all within the new smaller space.


    Also one other thing I forgot to mention in my prior list: Core 5 Ubiquity is quite weak. I know you are on limited time, but if you can get to it please buff that core. Tumbling for me is challenging since it takes 2 button keyboard simultaneous mash and I have the other hand on my mouse. So I never really tumble. I seldom see anyone tumble except outside of quests for fun.

    Please change it to an action boost or something (for the next 6 seconds targets will be considered sneak attacked) and/or add some passive ability at least to this such as increased ki, dodge cap, mrr cap 10, or something!

  8. #8
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    Nerfing EiN two ways, huh?

    Perhaps my all-time favorite concept power. That's all it will be with these changes. I can see maybe reducing its area of effect but limiting it to just four mobs?

    Because of the extremely low MRR cap in conjunction with so many un-evadeable attacks, my monk became a PITA to play. Now, the one power that gave me enough joy to keep me playing him will pretty much be gone.

    Monk WAS a great class in my eyes. Ninja Spy is still pretty meh so I don't really play her anymore. The incredibly hard whack of the nerf-bat to Henshin Mystic has driven my Q-Staff user to Thief Acrobat. Now, GMoF's coolest power also gets whacked.

    I don't want to be too melodramatic here but it's kinda hard not to. RIP to the Monk class.
    Last edited by Arkat; 06-03-2019 at 02:19 PM.
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    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    [*]A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.
    This is a fantastic and diabolical monk nerf, I love it.

  10. #10

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    No assassination DC increase for shadowdancer on this pass?

    Magister have +6 every school DC increase(from core) with +3 specific school DC increase(tier 5) on this pass now.

    Even reaper tree doesn't have assassination DC at all. While caster reaper tree have +7 spell DC.

    So, you are widening the DC gap(16 DC from both magister pass and reaper tree) more between assassination and instakill spells.

    Assassins already have far lower DC than casters like 10~15+ DC.

    Why do you widen the DC gap? Landing an assassination is far harder than landing an instakill spells because of its limitation(melee range, in sneak, to-hit, broken sneak mechanics).

    16~30+ DC gap is almost impossible to overcome.
    Last edited by draven1; 06-03-2019 at 09:24 PM.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Jandric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    That Combat Brute change is a significant nerf.
    Agreed. I know that LD is already very good and wouldn't propose any improvements... but I hope that the nerf will be reconsidered or reduced.

    1. It's already more difficult for melee toons in Reaper than it is for ranged and casters. Please consider balance against other classes in types of content, as well.
    2. If your tastes don't include reaper, it can actually be difficult to maintain blitz with a melee toon if you are running with a good Warlock (and fairly impossible if there are more). This can currently be offset by investing in stunning abilities/tactical boosts and the helpless damage boost.

  12. #12
    Community Member Krumm's Avatar
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    Default idea to make Master Blitz more group friendly (and fix bug?)

    While Legendary Dreadnought in current form is quite powerful, Master Blitz could use some change to make it more user-friendly.

    In current form, we loose Master Blitz in some quests when there is a lot of zoning (this used be really bad but now it's only few quests).
    Also, Master Blitz is at times not group friendly as you have to go go go to keep the blitz up.
    50% dodge that does not ignore dodge cap (if it did, it would be too powerful anyways) is pretty useless.


    I would like to suggest the following.

    • change Master Blitz to a toggle and start with 1 stack.
    • each stack is worth +3 melee power, +3 ranged power
    • can stack up to 25 (so max 75 mp/rp)
    • choose between 30 prr or +12 dodge, +6 armor max dex bonus & +6 max dodge bonus
    • same mechanics as now to gain a stack, loose 1 stack every 3 sec until 1 stack is left.


    Hopefully if Master Blitz is changed to a toggle, we won't loose it like we do in some quests.
    Also, changes the mechanics of Master Blitz so that it's more group friendly.
    While max mp/rp is higher by 5, it's made up by the fact that takes longer to charge up but each stack is lost rather quickly.
    And lastly, give up 30prr for 6 more dodge... is that a fair trade?

    What do you all think about this idea?


    for comparison, here is Master Blitz in current version.

    Master's Blitz Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5 mins) Activate: For 15 seconds, you gain +7 Melee Power, +7 Ranged Power, and select either +50% Dodge (dodge cap applies!) or +30 PRR. Any time you hit an opponent while under the effects of Master's Blitz, you have a chance to gain an additional stack of the melee/ranged damage bonus and restart the duration. When you first activate this ability, you now start with three stacks of increased damage. The damage bonus stacks up to 10 times, and decrements by 1 every 15 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    [*]Shrouding Strike/Shot no longer mark the target for Shadow Charges; instead, they apply a stack of Improved Destruction.[*]Shrouding Strike/Shot now have a 6-second cooldown.
    Question: I believe that Shrouding is a single attack only, is that correct? Since a stack of Improved Destruction expires after 20 seconds, and Shrouding will allow a maximum of one stack to be applied per 6 seconds, does this mean that the maximum stack of Improved Destruction possible using Shrouding at any given time would be 4? If that's correct, it's not very useful compared to the 1 per second Improved Destruction items. How about something like 10 seconds of Shrouding Shots, followed by a longer cool down? That way it would be possible to get to the maximum stack size of 15 that Improved Destruction allows, making it a more attractive option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    [*]Untouchable now passively grants 3% Dodge and +1 Critical Damage Multiplier on rolls of 19-20.
    Thank you. But looking at what is happening on Shiradi, I can't see that enough was done here to keep me on SD for my Mechanic. There are a lot of great toys, but DPS seems to be lacking. The new burst damage Adrenaline equivalent on Shiradi and the 200% ranged power additions will be perhaps impossible to pass up. Just something to keep in mind as there are a lot of us ranged rogues out there. If you really want to make SD attractive, dump Dark Imbuement, which is not good, and add a 400% Adrenaline-like ability here just like Shiradi. Burst damage is going to bring in the masses, and lack of it will hurt the destiny badly.

    EDIT: Compare 'Blitz' and 'Unbridled Fury' to Dark Imbuement. There is nothing Epic about that epic moment at all. At a minimum, add a new T6 just like Shiradi...
    NEW: Strike from the Shadows (T6): Your next attack has +400% damage and +16 to its Critical Threat Range. 30 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    Last edited by 0ldschool; 06-03-2019 at 02:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Legendary Dreadnought
    This Destiny is very good in its current incarnation. We opened up some of the restrictiveness of the two attacks and fixed an ability that did nothing/wasn't good. For balance vs. other destinies, we did diminish some of their damage vs. Helpless targets only.

    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Power Attack to be active to use.
    • Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Cleave and Great Cleave (though those feats still reset the cooldown of Momentum Swing).
    • Lay Waste now adds Trip Bonuses to its DC.
    • Unmoveable and Thick Skinned are no longer Action Boosts (they didn't really act like them anyway, they were just using their charge counters). Instead, they are instead simply restricted to their respective cooldowns (which are unchanged).
    • Tactical Genius (which never really worked) is now: Unusual Tactics: Passive: You are a studied master of a wide variety of methods for gaining the upper hand. +2 to the DCs of your Tactical Feats, DC of Rune Arm shots, DC of Breath Weapons, DC of Assasinate, DC of Poisons, and +2 to the Perform, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skills.
    • Combat Brute's Helplessness damage is now 15%.
    Hi,
    true it is a good ED Tree, one thing to consider tho:

    Blitz is quite easy to keep active and maxed with Monks, SWF or TWF Style Builds while Two Handed Fighting Style Builds sometimes even loose it while standing in the middle of a big mob and hitting them like crazy. That is cuz the Two Handed Style Builds do much fewer attacks per time than those Monk/SWF/TWF but the chance to gain a stack is also 10%. That is very frustrating if you do hit mob after mob and loose your Blitz anyway, while other builds can keep it active quite easily in the same situation. Maybe you can change the chance to gain a stack of Blitz for Two Handed Fighting to 20% or change something else to make it somewhat even for fast attacking and low damage builds compared to the slow attacking and high damage Two Handed Fighting Builds.

    tyvm

  15. #15

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    We have no plans for changes to Blitz at this time, sorry.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  16. #16
    2017 DDO Players Council Arkantios's Avatar
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    Grandmaster of Flowers

    Inner Focus and Wholeness of Spirit now allow for movement during use This is a nice little QoL change

    A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.I feel that this might want to be a +0.5W to noncentered and +1W or +1.5W; just so that this isn't an automatic must-twist on most dps builds.

    Everything is Nothing moves to a 3 minute cooldown, no longer requires charging.
    Everything is Nothing now has a smaller detect (double the size of Drifting Lotus, but still smaller than its existing version), and hits a maximum of 4 enemies. This is for both balance and performance reasons, as it significantly taxes the game on use & will now be used more frequently.
    I feel like this is too much of a nerf. A 3 minute cooldown and can only hit a max of 4 mobs. I think most people would prefer the 5 minute cooldown with a much higher mob elimination cap.

    NEW: T2: The Flower's Thorn: +3[w] attack. 6 second cooldown. Does not require Centering. Has cool petal FX. (1 Rank, 1AP) Is this just a simple +3[w] Attack? Nothing extra added to it?

    Legendary Dreadnought.

    Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Power Attack to be active to use.
    Momentum Swing and Lay Waste no longer require Cleave and Great Cleave (though those feats still reset the cooldown of Momentum Swing).
    Lay Waste now adds Trip Bonuses to its DC. Nice QoL change for builds that don't take these feats while also giving bonuses to builds that do.

    Tactical Genius (which never really worked) is now: Unusual Tactics: Passive: You are a studied master of a wide variety of methods for gaining the upper hand. +2 to the DCs of your Tactical Feats, DC of Rune Arm shots, DC of Breath Weapons, DC of Assasinate, DC of Poisons, and +2 to the Perform, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skills. This definitely makes sense for this sort of destiny. Nice all around buff to most builds using this destiny.
    Combat Brute's Helplessness damage is now 15%. This should help make this Destiny not be the (end all-be all dps destiny)


    Shadowdancer

    Shadow Lance now adds Assassinate Bonuses to its DC calculation
    Shadow Lance now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation
    Shadow Lance now uses full character level in its DC calculation
    Shadow Lance no longer requires Shadow Charges to blind
    Shadow Lance's Blind is no longer based on chance, but tries to apply on each hit
    Shadow Lance's damage now scales with 400% of the higher of your Melee and Ranged Power
    Shadow Lance's damage is now (4d8+18)/(6d8+24)/(8d8+30)
    Shadow Lance's cooldown is now 30/20/10 seconds.
    Cooldown Reduction is great. Damage is better (would need to test out if it's worth it). Blind is fantastic with a high DC. And the dex/int is a great way to incorporate the change to Assassinate DC a while ago.

    Shrouding Strike/Shot no longer mark the target for Shadow Charges; instead, they apply a stack of Improved Destruction.
    Shrouding Strike/Shot now have a 6-second cooldown.
    6 second cooldown is wicked. Improved Destruction is always welcome. Especially in the newer content.

    Consume now adds Assassinate bonuses to its DC calculation
    Consume now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation
    Consume no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    Consume now has a 3-minute cooldown.
    Consume should now more consistently pick living enemies to target (and no longer pick doors/barrels/misc non-enemy targets).
    Again the DC calculation is a welcome change. Not sure how I feel about the cooldown. Would need to playtest to get a better feel for it, but it does seem a bit long. I will be one of the people that say shadow charges were not hard whatsoever to get and keep track of. You just actually had to use and look at your hotbars once in a while.

    Shadow Manipulation now adds Assassinate bonuses to its DC calculation
    Shadow Manipulation now uses the higher of your Intelligence and Dexterity Modifiers in its DC calculation.
    Shadow Manipulation no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    Shadow Manipulation now has a 3-minute cooldown.
    Shadow Manipulation no longer requires Cloak of Shadow.
    Same thing from Consume; love the DC changes, iffy on the cooldown.

    Executioner's Strike/Shot now has a 12-second cooldown.
    Executioner's Strike/Shot now has a DC of (10 + Character level + INT or DEX mod + Assassinate bonuses)
    Executioner's Strike/Shot can now be used while under Antimagic.
    You can now move while using Executioner's Strike/Shot
    Cooldown reduction is fantastic.

    Dark Imbuement no longer uses Dark Imbuement Charges, and just functions on a cooldown.
    Dark Imbuement now has a 2-minute cooldown.
    Dark Imbuement now costs 1AP.
    Dark Imbuement no longer requires Shadow Form.
    No offense, but still won't be taking this absolute garbage of an ability. On a melee you get 2d6 NON-SCALING unholy damage per hit and your melee range increases a bit for 30 seconds every 2 minutes. Even just a plain +2 Sneak Attack Dice would be better than this because that actually scales. And you can get that from a bunch of other places. This isn't an epic moment at all.

    Shadow Form no longer uses Shadow Charges, nor grants Maximum Shadow Charges.
    Shadow Form's tooltip now clarifies that it is considered a Major Form.
    Shadow Form now costs 1AP.
    Hey, cool AP reduction.

    Untouchable now passively grants 3% Dodge and +1 Critical Damage Multiplier on rolls of 19-20.
    More damage = More Happy
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank.

  17. #17
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Grandmaster of Flowers
    This tree needed a lot of love. It was only OK for Monks, and really not-great for everyone else. There's now a fair bit of twist fodder in here, and fewer things require strict centering. Top-tier actives became massively more powerful with the changes, so they were scaled back somewhat to reflect being able to use them much more often.

    • Inner Focus and Wholeness of Spirit now allow for movement during use
    • Wholeness of Spirit has its cooldown reduced to 2 minutes
    • Ki actives (the left column) now scale with the higher of Melee or Ranged Power
    • Ki actives get Stunning bonuses added to their DC calculations
    • Ki actives can now be used under Antimagic, as they are not spells
    • Ki actives are no longer linked in a line
    • Lily Petal and Orchid Blossom now care about levels 26-30 in terms of scaling with character level (was previously capping at 25)
    • Lily Petal now grants 5 Ki instead of costing Ki
    • A Scattering of Petals no longer grants Dodge, and instead grants +100 PRR and MRR for 12 seconds.
      • A Scattering of Petals also reduces enemy Fortification by 200% for 12 seconds, and affected creatures lose immunity to Sneak Attack for that duration.
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a detect the same size as Drifting Lotus (i.e. twice as large).
      • A Scattering of Petals now has a 90 second cooldown.

    • A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.
    • Running with the Wind now adds 2/4/6% Doublestrike to everyone (no more stance requirement)
    • Hail of Blows now adds +3 melee damage in addition to its doublestrike
    • Walking with Waves no longer requires Ocean stance for its Dodge bonus
    • Standing with Stone no longer requires Mountain Stance for its PRR.
    • Dancing with Flame no longer requires Sun Stance for its (w) bonus.
    • Everything is Nothing moves to a 3 minute cooldown, no longer requires charging.
      • Everything is Nothing now has a smaller detect (double the size of Drifting Lotus, but still smaller than its existing version), and hits a maximum of 4 enemies. This is for both balance and performance reasons, as it significantly taxes the game on use & will now be used more frequently.

    • NEW: T2: The Flower's Thorn: +3[w] attack. 6 second cooldown. Does not require Centering. Has cool petal FX. (1 Rank, 1AP)
    • NEW: T5: Devastating Critical (+1 Critical Multiplier on a 19-20) (1 Rank, 1AP)
    Being able to use these more often as twists is nice and all but this is also the tree focus'd around being a monk. Shouldn't these abilities get bonus's for being centered too?

    A Dance of Flowers is now 0.25[w]/0.5[w]/1[w], but no longer requires you to be Centered.

    Take this for example change it slightly to keep the bonus's for all weapons. But for tier 3 give it a additional +.5w for being centered. (So yes it essentially remains the same for monks/centered)

  18. #18
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    How about adding ghost touched and knockdown immunity to shadow form? It always seemed weird those weren’t included.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  19. #19
    Forum witchdoctor Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    how bout reducing the penalty on ein?

    either more mobs or cooldown reduced?

    maybe a minute like wail? and 8 max?
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eladrin View Post
    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  20. #20
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Shadowdancer
    There are still a few outstanding things that don't shine (Dark Imbuement, looking at you) but in playtests the new version of Shadowdancer has been viable.
    • Dark Imbuement no longer uses Dark Imbuement Charges, and just functions on a cooldown.
    • Dark Imbuement now has a 2-minute cooldown.
    • Dark Imbuement now costs 1AP.
    • Dark Imbuement no longer requires Shadow Form.
    Probably beyond the scope of the changes that can be made but IMO this would be a lot cool if it was the same thing as Dance of Death (Tempest T5) but hit 6 targets instead of 4 since its and Epic ability not heroic. (Probably need to share a cooldown time between the two abilities)

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