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  1. #1
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    Default Returned after long hiatus, looking to TR into paladin - have some questions

    I have recently returned to the game after a long (~6 year?) hiatus and I believe that I want to TR into a paladin for my current character, specifically one for solo or duo play. I realize that paladins might not be the most optimal choice, especially when it comes to damage, but I all I want is something survivable.

    I have been reading through several forum posts, wikis, and similar as I'm trying to get myself back up to speed and I have some ideas for what I'd like to do but I have a fair number of questions about how to approach this.

    Firstly, the two choices I've been considering for my next life have been an aasimar sword-and-board paladin and a warforged greatsword paladin. I expect that the former will be simple enough - I'm sure that I could use EllisDee's Vanguard build as a basis, which I have been impressed by - but I'm unsure how viable the latter would be. I have also considered dragonborn but I'm really not sure what I would do with one.

    I have seen the Knight's Training feat and was wondering if this makes longsword builds viable. I have long been a fan of the longsword as the classic fantasy weapon and I would be interested in incorporating one into a sword-and-board build but I'm not sure if the feat is a trap.

    What's some good loot to obtain in preparation for a TR specifically for a paladin? I didn't usually TR before my hiatus and so this is a bit of a new experience for me, but I definitely know that TRing is what I want to do. I will have access to basically everything with the exception of Ravenloft, which is a personal choice since I am in the middle of a CoS campaign irl and I don't want any spoilers (if that's even a factor).

    I have noticed that most builds I've seen focus on either KotC or Vanguard, with Sacred Defender being a minimal dip for Lay on Hands and health. I like the flavor of Sacred Defender and I was wondering if there is any merit to making it the primary tree or if you lose too much by doing so.

    How much should racial trees be invested in? Aasimar, for example, seems to have some nice things in their tree - charisma, pseudo-Lay on Hands, healing amplification, and even some proficiencies - but I have no idea if any of this is worth putting points in the racial tree over one of the class trees.

    I think that's the end of my questions, thanks for reading and for any responses.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  2. #2
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Okay just some random answers and/or comments for your consideration:


    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    I realize that paladins might not be the most optimal choice, especially when it comes to damage, but I all I want is something survivable.
    Yes, paladins are a bit weak right now, but for a heroic life are survivable and viable, especially if you stick to elite or maybe R1 difficulty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    Firstly, the two choices I've been considering for my next life have been an aasimar sword-and-board paladin and a warforged greatsword paladin.
    An aasimar sword and board would be good, and if you have access to the falconry tree you could do well with a primarily wisdom build.
    Warforged + greatsword would not be my first choice. Primarily because 2HF is weak right now, and also because docents are kinda sucky compared to heavy armor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    I have seen the Knight's Training feat and was wondering if this makes longsword builds viable. I have long been a fan of the longsword as the classic fantasy weapon and I would be interested in incorporating one into a sword-and-board build but I'm not sure if the feat is a trap.
    KT feat is great and not a trap. It's better than taking Exotic Proficiency - Khopesh. Not only do you get longswords to match the damage of the previous king of one handed weapons (khopesh) but you also have the choice of using battle axes AND blunt weapons with better crit ranges/multipliers. This gives you a lot more choices of nice named weapons, whereas a lot of the named khopeshes were just so-so and only slashing damage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    I have noticed that most builds I've seen focus on either KotC or Vanguard, with Sacred Defender being a minimal dip for Lay on Hands and health. I like the flavor of Sacred Defender and I was wondering if there is any merit to making it the primary tree or if you lose too much by doing so.
    Yeah, SD is okay to dip into, but not a good primary tree. Get LOH and spend a few AP in the Sacred Defence stance enhancements. I wouldn't go too high here, maybe a max of 13 points to get LOH and some Improves your Sacred Defense stance enhancements. Actually 13 might be too much, depending on what you want from other trees.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    How much should racial trees be invested in? Aasimar, for example, seems to have some nice things in their tree - charisma, pseudo-Lay on Hands, healing amplification, and even some proficiencies - but I have no idea if any of this is worth putting points in the racial tree over one of the class trees.
    There is definitely some worth while stuff in the racial tree for aasimar. Don't be afraid to spend points here, just make sure you have enough points for whatever capstone tree you want. I did an aasimar pure ranger wisdom build and loved it. Grabbed a lot of stuff from falconry, aasimar, and tempest. You might be spread a little thinner going pally, but I will leave more specific build advice to the experts.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 06-02-2019 at 03:47 PM.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  3. #3
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    ...
    Thank you so much for your responses, they've been a big help!

    I'm about to TR and I have one more question before I do: if I go through with using longswords via Knight's Training, do I need to take the Cleave line? I know that most vanguard builds I've read up on use dwarven axes/bastard swords with the THF line for glancing blows, so I'm wondering how using longswords would change my feat investment.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  4. #4
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    Thank you so much for your responses, they've been a big help!

    I'm about to TR and I have one more question before I do: if I go through with using longswords via Knight's Training, do I need to take the Cleave line? I know that most vanguard builds I've read up on use dwarven axes/bastard swords with the THF line for glancing blows, so I'm wondering how using longswords would change my feat investment.
    Good question, and I am no build expert so I can only offer my advice as-is with no warranties.

    Normally a S&B build would indeed be either bastard swords or dwarven axes, and you would acquire the feats from the THF line and shield mastery/bash. However, as you have noticed, longswords will not benefit from the THF feats (in heroics anyway, so not taking into consideration epic defensive fighting) but you will still benefit from the shield feats. In this case you may indeed benefit from cleaves, but I wouldn't spend a feat to get them since pallys are a little feat starved compared to regular fighters. However you do have the option to get cleaves in the KotC enhancement tree. On the "other" other hand (is that three hands?) you may also be thin on your AP if you are dipping into aasimar racial tree and falconry. In this case I would recommend using one of the character planners found on the forums and mapping out your build step-by-step to ensure you don't end up with any "gotchas".
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

  5. #5
    Community Member Quetzacoala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Good question, and I am no build expert so I can only offer my advice as-is with no warranties.
    Your advice has been perfect, so no worries about not being a "build expert".

    I started fooling around in a character planner and it is indeed far too tight as far as enhancements go. There's just too many nice things in all of the paladin trees that I'm missing out on by investing heavily in the aasimar tree, so I think I'll likely just follow EllisDee's vanguard build as far as enhancements go and swap to human (or maybe dwarf).
    Quote Originally Posted by DeafeningWhisper View Post
    I agree with the feathered marsupial.

  6. #6
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzacoala View Post
    swap to human (or maybe dwarf).
    Humans get an extra feat (bastard sword) while dwarves get dwarven axe for free, so that's a wash.

    Humans - better heal amp potential and more skill points.
    Dwarves - a lot of CON and HP from racial tree.

    Just a heads-up from my experience, the dwarven "throw your weight around" is a bit of a trap. While it lets you add your con modifier to your d-axe damage, it won't add anything to your shield bashes and won't help with any tactical feats and also won't add to your "to hit" bonus, which all still rely on strength.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

    Ordinary humans have inhibitions that serve as a buffer against what we know is bad behavior.
    However, some people, by blaming others for their own bad behavior, develop a thought pattern that allows them to override self-control in order to achieve a selfish end.
    - My opinion on exploiters and cheaters blaming SSG for unfair punishment.

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