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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Tomb of Horrors is one of the most popular modules. Most characters die in there.

    I get that the game is mature to where we are past the point where players want to open anything on a lesser difficulty setting, but due to this, dungeons with more environmental hazards will be less forgiving.
    Correction...the Tomb of Horrors is one of the most iconic modules ever created. It is far from well liked by players who have actually played it. I would wager that *very* few have actually played it the way it was intended. It makes for a *great* read though...I am shocked that nobody has tried to make it into a book.

  2. #22
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfishski View Post

    But give it time, come back prepared for electricity resist and/or on a lower difficulty, explore it some more, figure it out, and by the time you've done some more lives spies will be one of the most fun quests you look forward to each life while others have grown stale.
    I run Spies once per life. I hated Super Mario as a kid, I played Zelda instead. The story behind Spies doesn't make much sense its just a gauntlet of gymnastics + traps. I don't like the Pit either but at least it has a coherent and interesting story... assuming you read the manual. I must be weird I look forward to the Madness quests each life, but now that we have Ravenloft its my most favorite content.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpw_acc View Post
    Strangely, not the air jets/jumping that annoys me about this quest. Even though I can never use the air jet to get to a safe spot on the first electric floor layer (I just have to load up on electricity res and protection then leg it to the nearest box).

    More annoying to me is:
    (a) difficulty of killing the elementals with a melee char, resulting in getting bombarded with fireballs while trying to clear the area (far easier with a ranged char).
    (b) difficulty in turning the valves which you can only do by standing on top of those stupid cold jets that interrupt you.
    You have to turn the valves in the correct order. If you turn the one closest to the boxes you jump up on first (the middle valve), then the one to your left if you are still facing that valve, then across to the last one, you will be turning off the cold jets in the order you are approaching the valves.
    Last edited by Grace_ana; 05-30-2019 at 09:54 AM.
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  4. #24
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    /Not signed

    Spies in the House is actually a pretty good dungeon bordering on great. I would give it a 6 or 7 out of 10 ranking. The dungeon has multiple challenges is moderately difficult and is not on a flat surface. I am not against flat dungeons as there are several that are very good but I like the change-up from time to time.

    Some of my favorite dungeons in no particular order.
    • The Pit
    • Spies in the House
    • Vault of Night (VoN 5) (Raid)
    • Gwylan's Stand
    • Tear of Dhaakan
    • Strahd (Raid)
    • Rain Fire
    • Chains of Flame
    • Reach for the Sky
    • The Crucible


    I like many more quests but these pop into my mind while writing this post.
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  5. #25
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I run Spies once per life. I hated Super Mario as a kid, I played Zelda instead. The story behind Spies doesn't make much sense its just a gauntlet of gymnastics + traps. I don't like the Pit either but at least it has a coherent and interesting story... assuming you read the manual. I must be weird I look forward to the Madness quests each life, but now that we have Ravenloft its my most favorite content.
    Is there a stigma against the Madness quests? I've never heard about that; they've always been well liked / run in my memory, and it's still not a problem to get a group for any of the three chains. I also don't really get the comparison, because most quests there are quite linear and horizontal.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  6. #26
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Is there a stigma against the Madness quests? I've never heard about that; they've always been well liked / run in my memory, and it's still not a problem to get a group for any of the three chains. I also don't really get the comparison, because most quests there are quite linear and horizontal.
    I know I in particular do not like any of the Jeet's line of quests. I dislike the alternate environment and is one of the things I also dislike in Wheloon. I do not have any issue with the Madness quests and run those often.
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  7. #27
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Is there a stigma against the Madness quests? I've never heard about that; they've always been well liked / run in my memory, and it's still not a problem to get a group for any of the three chains. I also don't really get the comparison, because most quests there are quite linear and horizontal.
    My static friends hate the Madness quests or rather anything that might possibly have a beholder ever. I rarely see Madness chains being pugged but that could have as much to do with them being P2P as anything else. The comparison was just that I don't enjoy Mario-style jumping/platforming quests either and prefer the more story-driven quests with atmosphere and good narration.
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  8. #28
    Community Member MistaMagic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace_ana View Post
    You have to turn the valves in the correct order. If you turn the one closest to the boxes you jump up on first (the middle valve), then the one to your left if you are still facing that valve, then across to the last one, you will be turning off the cold jets in the order you are approaching the valves.
    Correct
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  9. #29
    Community Member MistaMagic's Avatar
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    OP this is probably not that helpful to you but maybe it is to everyone else and that is use a Pale Lavender to run across the electric floor (Especially in Reaper)
    Ozzgood 42, 36, 15, 36, 80. Ozzbad 35, 36, 13, 34, 68. Ozzugly 40, 36, 19, 36, 98. EvilOzz 33, 36, 6, 12, 34. and Alts on Khyber
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  10. #30
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    I have enjoyed your comments. "The exact pixel" made me laugh. It took many tries to get "blown" to the right spot. Without the jump spell I would have been sunk. I think I refreshed it twice. And yes I DID have electrical resistance. Wizards don't have a lot of HPs, and it seemed I wasn't in full control while on the electric floor. I had no chance. To get so far then fail...

    If the XP is that good I am glad i did not look at the XP report while my body was frying on the electrified floor. I didn't enjoy getting to this point at all. As my spirit tried to discover just what happened, I heard Willy Wonka's voice "You get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!"


    Quote Originally Posted by Grace_ana View Post
    You have to turn the valves in the correct order. If you turn the one closest to the boxes you jump up on first (the middle valve), then the one to your left if you are still facing that valve, then across to the last one, you will be turning off the cold jets in the order you are approaching the valves.
    Right. It's a 'gotcha'. Trial and error of death, or someone telling you. Both are lame IMO. An intelligent player should have a chance of working it out without dying.

  11. #31
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirPalamor View Post
    I have enjoyed your comments. "The exact pixel" made me laugh. It took many tries to get "blown" to the right spot. Without the jump spell I would have been sunk. I think I refreshed it twice. And yes I DID have electrical resistance. Wizards don't have a lot of HPs, and it seemed I wasn't in full control while on the electric floor. I had no chance. To get so far then fail...

    If the XP is that good I am glad i did not look at the XP report while my body was frying on the electrified floor. I didn't enjoy getting to this point at all. As my spirit tried to discover just what happened, I heard Willy Wonka's voice "You get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!"




    Right. It's a 'gotcha'. Trial and error of death, or someone telling you. Both are lame IMO. An intelligent player should have a chance of working it out without dying.
    Why?

    There are a wide variety of ways to come back from death. Even if you do die, it's not a big deal and even if you fail the quest, it's not a catastrophe because you can just jump right back in and start again.

    If you think that the quest is "too hard" in some way, go in on Normal and wander through. You can take a nap on those electric floors on Normal with a Resist Electric spell.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirPalamor View Post
    Right. It's a 'gotcha'. Trial and error of death, or someone telling you. Both are lame IMO. An intelligent player should have a chance of working it out without dying.
    I actually have no problem with quests where I have to try them a few times to figure them out and complete. But, I'm old school that way - it's how all of DDO used to be, once upon a time. At least there are no more death xp penalties. We aren't owed completions, and sometimes we fail and have to go forward with a different strategy with the new knowledge we have. I don't think that's usually a bad thing.

    I used to absolutely hate Spies, but that was because I played on a laggy laptop, and Spies is very unforgiving with lag. So no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get anywhere, because I was never where I thought I was. Once I moved onto a new, very good desktop (thanks to my husband who got tired of me piking in Spies and complaining), I went in on my own and learned all the quirks.

    Also, fwiw, you don't have to rely on most of the air jets to get around in Spies. As long as you can get to a 38 or 40 jump (at level it's doable for most toons with some gear and self-buffs), the only jets you need (as far as I know) are the one you get when you turn the big wheel, the one that takes you to the first electrified floor after the last prisoner, and the one that takes you to the second electrified floor after the fire eles. Since the jets are pretty buggy a lot of the time, that's a good thing to keep in mind. The rest is jumpable.
    Graceana, assassin ~ Xiya, tempest ~ Shinshi, shintao ~ Ayaxi, thief-acrobat ~ Saravi, cleric ~ Sanziana, arcane archer ~ Kyudojin, mechanic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Helmet View Post
    Honestly, I am glad to say I will save money and save it for my kid... at least Legos do not change overnight so that the pieces don't fit together anymore..

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirPalamor View Post
    I was soloing this dungeon with 2 hirelings, being very cautious, since i had never been in it before. I rescued all prisoners and killed the mephits at the top electric floor. I turned a valve and poof, i am blown into the middle of the electric floor. It felt like I was still being blown as I tried to jump out. I was out of control. I died. Somehow my rogue didn't see this "gotcha" trap.
    So here is my rant: it seems that dungeons like this give players 2 options (1) Discover all the 'gotchas' through death, wasting a lot of time. Lame. (2) Go through with a seasoned player who shows you every little thing to do. Also lame.

    I prefer to explore and learn vs being spoon fed. My character (wizard) is 12th level, mostly soloing. So far the game has been pretty good, but this one left a bad taste in my mouth. Please tell me these lame dungeons are few.


    One final note: this game is modeled after D&D, but I imagine a DM would lose players if he/she had these gotchas in the dungeons. Those make it more like a console game, not an RPG.
    The quest is not to my taste either. However, I think it's great that DDO has such a wide variety of offerings. It's almost inevitable that some of the content will not be fun to any given player.

  14. #34
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgarallanpoe View Post
    Correction...the Tomb of Horrors is one of the most iconic modules ever created. It is far from well liked by players who have actually played it. I would wager that *very* few have actually played it the way it was intended. It makes for a *great* read though...I am shocked that nobody has tried to make it into a book.
    No correction needed. I was right the first time. It is as well liked as it is iconic.

    I dont think theres ever been a time when I asked what module folks want to play next, where Tomb of Horrors hasnt come up, and not just as some masochistic joke. The beautiful thing about it is after multiple decades of time, even old TSR authors cant metagame their way entirely through it without running into some of those "gotchyas" referred to in the OP.

    This is the difference between tabletop gamers and video gamers. Tabletop gamers actually want to play challenging content. This entitlement complex where people want to be able to play through high difficulty quests, solo, complete on first try, etc...is more of a video game thing.

  15. #35
    Community Member TedSandyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoLionxxx View Post

    I'd say that "Spies in the house" is the quest in DDO that requires the most jumping (the 2nd-most being "Coalescent Chamber", in the Vale). Most of the recently built dungeons don't require you to do this type of jumping.
    I think I'd put The Pit as most jumpy.

  16. #36
    Community Member TedSandyman's Avatar
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    The only real issue I have with Spies is the air jets. They seem completely random and susceptible to lag. Everything else you can kind of learn. Ive had many people over the years give me advice on the air jets, but none of it works for me. I'm at the top of the room sailing along just fine, then I'm below the floor falling. Jump into the jet. Jump backwards. Jump sideways. Take of the armor. etc... None of it works.

  17. #37
    Community Member Psiandron's Avatar
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    As I believe some other have said above, Spies is incredibly frustrating and needlessly sadistic quests under the sun when you first run it.

    After you learn the quest it is easy, fun and a great source of xp.

    I think it's a great quest and thoroughly enjoy running it.
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  18. #38
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    So...you were soloing a quest with a lot of traps on a squishy character, and died on a trap, and are mad about it? Yeah, I’ve done the same thing in the same quest at the same spot, and I do agree it’s never fun to die in a quest, but that’s going to happen more frequently as you get to higher levels and the content gets tougher. You could put a LFM and write in the notes you are exploring / not zerging, and see if you can someone else to join you that wants to do the same. Or if you want to solo, think how you can prepare better and have another go. Spies in the House is a great quest because there are so many unique things to it. This is much better than a linear quest where all you do is kill the same set of mobs every 50 feet.
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  19. #39
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    I encourage you to go back and do Spies more. I can understand being annoyed at a sucker punch, but I think once you learn the quest, you'll like it. The xp is objectively great as others have mentioned once you learn to get through it in a reasonable time. Whether it's lame or rad or somewhere in between is still up to you, so maybe you'll still dislike it after you learn it. But the xp factor is worth learning this quest, and maybe you'll end up liking Spies. I think it's one of the better quests in this game.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    The only real issue I have with Spies is the air jets. They seem completely random and susceptible to lag. Everything else you can kind of learn. Ive had many people over the years give me advice on the air jets, but none of it works for me. I'm at the top of the room sailing along just fine, then I'm below the floor falling. Jump into the jet. Jump backwards. Jump sideways. Take of the armor. etc... None of it works.
    The jet after the fourth prisoner is the tricky one. I am sure you have heard this advice before, and I have at least one guildy who says it does not work for him, but here goes anyway :P

    Walk into the jet in the direction it is blowing (i.e. when you are looking at it, it is blowing directly away from you). You will auto climb into it. Stand still until it starts blowing you upward. As soon as you start going up, push the forward key. Ignore everything you see until you land on the floor. The lying client will lie. It will tell you you missed, that you are falling, etc. Ignore it. Keep pushing forward. At some point everything will right itself and you will be running across a hot electric floor straight for the boxes.

    This has worked hundreds of times in a row for me. I hope it will work for you.
    Last edited by bracelet; 05-30-2019 at 04:38 PM.

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