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  1. #41
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirPalamor View Post
    I was soloing this dungeon with 2 hirelings, being very cautious, since i had never been in it before. I rescued all prisoners and killed the mephits at the top electric floor. I turned a valve and poof, i am blown into the middle of the electric floor. It felt like I was still being blown as I tried to jump out. I was out of control. I died. Somehow my rogue didn't see this "gotcha" trap.
    So here is my rant: it seems that dungeons like this give players 2 options (1) Discover all the 'gotchas' through death, wasting a lot of time. Lame. (2) Go through with a seasoned player who shows you every little thing to do. Also lame.

    I prefer to explore and learn vs being spoon fed. My character (wizard) is 12th level, mostly soloing. So far the game has been pretty good, but this one left a bad taste in my mouth. Please tell me these lame dungeons are few.


    One final note: this game is modeled after D&D, but I imagine a DM would lose players if he/she had these gotchas in the dungeons. Those make it more like a console game, not an RPG.
    Those valves open and some of the air is leaking out. Some of them leak cold that does damage as well.

    My main is a rogue. I too love exploring the dungeons and learning them myself rather than being shown/told. This particular dungeon is truly "tricky". I love it for that. It is complicated with lots of valves and traps that need to be used and avoided respectively.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  2. #42
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    Default Epic vs. Heroic makes a difference

    I have insight on Spies as I have probably run this 100's times in Epic alone just as part of my dailies while accumulating 20 Epic Past Lives. It is easier in epic, plain and simple. Our PUG groups zerg this quest in 8-9 minutes and with any kind of pot, get well over 120k in XP each time. This quest is easy if you are looking for XP/minute. If you are looking for challenge, it can give you that if you solo it. I like running in parties if I can. everybody knows the quest for the most part...some pull values, others talk to prisoners, etc. Its a team effort.

    that being said...heroic, especially on Reaper is a different story. Its easier to die for sure, especially soloing. I only run it on TR if there is an LFM up...solo eats up too much XP pot and time for me. So, I guess, to each there own.

    favorite quest for leveling in epic (20-26)
    not so much in heroic.

  3. #43
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpw_acc View Post
    Strangely, not the air jets/jumping that annoys me about this quest. Even though I can never use the air jet to get to a safe spot on the first electric floor layer (I just have to load up on electricity res and protection then leg it to the nearest box).

    More annoying to me is:
    (a) difficulty of killing the elementals with a melee char, resulting in getting bombarded with fireballs while trying to clear the area (far easier with a ranged char).
    (b) difficulty in turning the valves which you can only do by standing on top of those stupid cold jets that interrupt you.
    The cold jets fire in a pattern. If you hit the valves in the correct order you don't have to stand on any cold jets.

  4. #44
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Spies is one of the few quests that you get an alert bubble that pops up that says "EXTREME CHALLENGE". or something to that effect.

    You are experiencing the same frustration that most of us felt when we first started running that quest.
    Good luck
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  5. #45
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    Spies in the House, and quests like it, is the reason why I'm slowly losing interest in DDO. I'm VIP... so it's not so bad.

    But say I was premium, and I buy quests a la carte. it would take only about 2 or 3 quests like this to make me go "I spent money... ON THIS!?" and I'm out. Now, if we could buy quests on a per quest basis, instead of per adventure pack, then the "If you don't like it, don't play it" would be more palatable. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, but still.

    As it stands, it seems I'm in the minority that wants a good old fashioned brainless "Open door. Kill Monster. Get treasure." type dungeon. And then, I buy a new dungeon, with different mobs, and different treasure. No "clever" layouts or mechanics please.

    As far as extreme challenge goes, for me, it means higher level mobs, tougher damage, higher Hp, not "and here's another clever mechanic!".

    Sigh. I miss the days when turn based isometric RPGs of Dungeons and Dragons ED 2-3.5 were common.
    Last edited by Dalris_Thane; 05-30-2019 at 07:14 PM.

  6. #46
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    Spies is a better dungeon for exploring and learning than many others because of its design. It's not just a tunnel that you kill your way down to the final room where the boss is waiting. If complex and interestingly put together maps are your thing, this quest should tick those boxes.

    Complaining about 'gotcha' traps doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. Traps are meant to be hidden and dangerous. What those gusts do may be surprising the first time you run the quest, but falling foul of them is quite survivable.

    Those valves also pose the question 'should I always be activating these without knowing what they do?'. Hirelings can be made to turn valves and pull levers while you stand back in safety and as a wizard you have spells that you could have used to protect you while moving around near an electrified floor.

    So there are definitely things you could have done to avoid this death by playing more carefully. But don't feel bad about it, it's probably safe to say that all of us have been killed through carelessness at one point or another. Situations like this encourage us to become more thoughtful, better prepared and more capable players.

    The quest is noticeably more demanding than most other things you would have encountered in the lower heroic levels. It certainly stopped me in my tracks as a novice player on a new character. But once you learn how it works it becomes much easier and you can start to appreciate what makes it good. Unless you have a bad connection or really don't like jumping, then it's probably never going to be much fun for you.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 05-31-2019 at 01:09 AM.
    Astrican on Khyber

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    So...you were soloing a quest with a lot of traps on a squishy character, and died on a trap, and are mad about it?
    Not at all. I think it is lame that my hireling rogue has zero chance of detecting the trap that got me. The only way past it is dying the first time, or have someone tell you how to get past it. There is little adventure if you just follow an expert through these IMO.

  8. #48
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    There is a handful of dungeons in the game with a higher learning curve and this is one of those. Once you learn it the quest is really high xp relative to time, but the first few times you run through it - it can be a pita.

    There are some guides on you tube you can watch if you want to shorten the learning curve. It's also the kind of dungeon you can come back to at a higher level for favor to learn the quest when those things won't kill you. Having good energy resist is key. There is one area where you need to avoid the middle and walk around the edge. There is another two areas you need to get to the crates to climb up asap to avoid the damage.
    Last edited by slarden; 05-31-2019 at 02:25 AM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalris_Thane View Post
    it would take only about 2 or 3 quests like this to make me go "I spent money... ON THIS!?" and I'm out. Now, if we could buy quests on a per quest basis, instead of per adventure pack, then the "If you don't like it, don't play it" would be more palatable. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN
    There is over 100 quests and dungeons in this game. There is a handful i.e. Pit and Spies, that have a semi-complex design. The vast majority are exactly as you describe. It certainly doesn't hurt to have a few that are a bit different.

  10. #50
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korgzz_bloodaxe View Post
    There is over 100 quests and dungeons in this game. There is a handful i.e. Pit and Spies, that have a semi-complex design. The vast majority are exactly as you describe. It certainly doesn't hurt to have a few that are a bit different.
    471

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    471!!!!!! No wonder it takes me so long when i try to finish every single one on a life. I have a new found respect for this game.

  12. #52
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalris_Thane View Post
    Spies in the House, and quests like it, is the reason why I'm slowly losing interest in DDO. I'm VIP... so it's not so bad.

    But say I was premium, and I buy quests a la carte. it would take only about 2 or 3 quests like this to make me go "I spent money... ON THIS!?" and I'm out. Now, if we could buy quests on a per quest basis, instead of per adventure pack, then the "If you don't like it, don't play it" would be more palatable. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, but still.

    As it stands, it seems I'm in the minority that wants a good old fashioned brainless "Open door. Kill Monster. Get treasure." type dungeon. And then, I buy a new dungeon, with different mobs, and different treasure. No "clever" layouts or mechanics please.

    As far as extreme challenge goes, for me, it means higher level mobs, tougher damage, higher Hp, not "and here's another clever mechanic!".

    Sigh. I miss the days when turn based isometric RPGs of Dungeons and Dragons ED 2-3.5 were common.
    If you're VIP, then why even step into Spies in the first place? There are hundreds of quests for you to do and most of them are "Open door. Kill Monster. Get treasure." quests.

    Just play the quests you enjoy!
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
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    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
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  13. #53
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    I once ate a hamburger on Tuesday.
    Last edited by shores11; 05-31-2019 at 10:45 AM.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    Why would or should a VIP not run Spies? The beauty of being VIP is that I have no clue as to what is free to play or not. I am a VIP and I like Spies in the House as a quest. The great XP is a big bonus.
    You didn't even have to read the thread. You only had to read the very quote the person you quoted, quoted. And it's the last post. Holy hell.

  15. #55
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    Why would or should a VIP not run Spies? The beauty of being VIP is that I have no clue as to what is free to play or not. I am a VIP and I like Spies in the House as a quest. The great XP is a big bonus.
    You're a VIP who should run Spies.

    They're a VIP who should not run Spies.

    Because you like the quest and they don't like the quest.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  16. #56
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    Why would or should a VIP not run Spies? The beauty of being VIP is that I have no clue as to what is free to play or not. I am a VIP and I like Spies in the House as a quest. The great XP is a big bonus.


    Seriously he even quoted the guy he was replying to.


    **edit** Sorry boredgamer, didn't see your reply there I read shores and just replied to that.
    Last edited by SiliconScout; 05-31-2019 at 10:29 AM.

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  18. #58
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    To be honest the worst part of spies is the Mario hopping you have to do, once you have run the quest and know it decently it's actually pretty linear. Not in a literal sense but there's not a lot of "back tracking" that happens so you are almost always heading forward / up. I don't honestly remember the first time I went through Spies it would have been around the time it came out though so I can't speak to it's "learning curve" back then dying in a quest on Elite was actually pretty common place so it would not have been that surprising or alarming. I DO remember the electrical floors being BRUTAL though because we didn't have absorption and had to rely on Resist 20 or 30 and protection from elements on a toon with about half the HP that they have these days. Again though, as I stated, the game itself was harder so while this was a spike it wasn't overly drastic. In those days "Extreme Challenge" really meant it.

    I can see in today's game though how this might pop up as an aberration, that said once you have run it a couple of times and are properly prepared it's actually not that bad to run through.

    The Pit or Coal are far worse quests for non-linear design, you are constantly back tracking in there and it's easy to get lost / confused especially if you haven't run them in a while. Difficulty wise I find them both harder that spies on my caster, though Coal the worst of the two.

  19. #59
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shores11 View Post
    I once ate a hamburger on Tuesday.

    So you gladly got paid Tuesday for the hamburger you purchased for someone the other day HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    ffs I need a blunt...
    I am often cynical and say mean things. It's a WAI "Feature". Mokune (Guild Leader of Pandora's Box on Khyber), Iquitz, Returning, Thaumat, Ketzerisch, Xhiron, Koanoak et al...

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post

    Some of this are challenges, not quests.

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