Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Community Member remember1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    3bc
    Posts
    87

    Default How to fight melee Champions?

    I cant do quests of level 5 or more on hard or elite because of melee Champions. I'm a melee bard and when I fight melee Champions they kill me with one shot. How do you handle melee Champions? Tyvm.

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    431

    Default

    Are you playing solo? Are playing a first life character with not much gear?

    Champions can be a pain for melee, but certainly doable (at lower level quests anyway). You may need to hunt around in quests or auction house for some better gear.

    Bards can't get much AC, so you probably need to focus on getting your dodge up as high as possible. Plenty of enhancements and items around for that.

    Also, as a bard you should have the spell blur cast on yourself at all times.

    And make use of your songs, fascinate enemies, hold them etc.

    Basically, focus on what you are good at, rather than charging in and swinging away like a fighter!

  3. #3
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    3,929

    Default

    Champs can hit hard, but you "should" be able to survive most of them.

    So, let's start w/ this - what's your build? How "tough" are you? How many HP at Level 5? If you're using a forum-approved build, which one? If it's something of your own creation, again, what is it (cuz that could be a problem right there!). :/

    Next - how's your gear? What's your Fortification? PRR? Any other defenses?

    Also, what color champs? There are 3 - yellow, orange and red - if red, yeah, good luck. But the yellow shouldn't be ~too~ much trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpw_acc View Post
    Bards can't get much AC, so you probably need to focus on getting your dodge up as high as possible...

    Also, as a bard you should have the spell blur cast on yourself at all times.
    Yeah, those help w/ long-term damage mitigation, but one-hit is one-hit. Using CC is a good suggestion, though - that's where a Bard's strength lies.


    One trick is to learn which ones are really tough - check this chart:

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Monster_Champion#Buffs

    Mark of Law, Ice, Flameborn, Elemental Fury, Soul of Cruelty - those are (some of) the scary melees, relative to the others. And Pandemonium - hits you with a Slow, then you're done. Best bet is always to try to CC them, avoid until you have the advantage, then kill them fast before they can kill you.


    1st life can't expect to stand up to Reapers on melee, but should be able to handle most(?) champs, and 99% of them if you've got a good build and know how to use it to its full potential.

  4. #4
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Berkshire, UK
    Posts
    5,925

    Default

    General advice - target weaker saves. Bulky melee enemies likely have poor will saves, so use mind-effecting magics like hypnotism, irresistible dance or sonic blast, or just your bardic fascination then focus on 1 enemy at a time. Hypnotism can be particularly handy even if it doesn't stick since it'll apply a debuff to enemy will saves to make a follow up spell more likely to succeed.

    You can also take a hireling for backup, at the very least they can be a useful decoy & you'll find some that have their own summon monster spells to provide more targets that aren't you - use your own summons too if possible.

    Mitigation is important - dodge, AC, concealment (blur/displacement) & incorporeal (ghostly) are all different layers of protection & only 1 of them needs to intercept a hit to stop it getting through.

    Finally, for when you do get hit, HP & fortification are your main defences, PRR isn't as easy to find in the lower levels but it'll help too.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  5. #5
    Community Member remember1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    3bc
    Posts
    87

    Default

    I´m almost playing solo with hireling. A first life character with low gear. The build is a flavor build: race Human, with strength, constitution, dexterity and charisma on 14. Ty for the advice, it will help me.

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,927

    Default

    I'm gonna assume a swashbuckler build since melee bard... other option is ice chanter but much more of a vet build. Do you have the buckler from crystal cove or WPM? guardbreaking is insanely good. Make sure your dodge is good.

    At that level you might not have 100 fortification yet, what's your fort?

    Get some resist to help mitigate those champs that do acid and poison DoTs (cruelty).

    As others said, fascinate is great as long as you can keep your hireling from waking things.

  7. #7
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,188

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remember1 View Post
    I´m almost playing solo with hireling. A first life character with low gear. The build is a flavor build: race Human, with strength, constitution, dexterity and charisma on 14. Ty for the advice, it will help me.
    bardish options aside, melee builds need some CC option:

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Tactical_feat (general info to consider)

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Trip (free to all characters without feat spent, STR based may work on your build on hard)

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Combat_Mastery (look for lootgen item that has this)

    get STR +4 item or buy STR +4 bullstrength pots to boost the DC

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    - Make sure you have Con and False Life gear to increase your max HPs
    - Make sure you're using a Sheltering item, its the best way for new squishy melees to reduce incoming damage
    - Keep Blur up. If you dont have Blur, you can still use Blur scrolls.
    - Run with a Cleric hire to keep you healed while you fight. Even though you can self-heal, you're more valuable as your own DPS.
    - Send your cleric in first if you're feeling iffy about a champ. They'll tank pretty well at-level on Hard against a single champ. Also you'll pull aggro halfway into the fight, which spreads the tanking load out a bit more.

  9. #9
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    144

    Default

    My humble opinion add more Spellsinger.


    Use melee specs of Swash only to save Spell points between your Spellsinger abilities and AOE effects. Load everytihng to avoidance, Blur, Ghostly trinkets and items ( They stack with Displacement but not Blur ) aswell as constitution/hardy and false life. Rest of the items will be all on DC and Spell points and then Penetration.


    As a note Harper tree is your friend both at Bard and Wizard. ( T5 Harper is awesome for long battles, saving sp, extra sp, extra buff for your charmed and summoned monsters top of augment summoning and more ) keeping your attention on enemies and bursting your DC ) Do not let intelligence to hit lead to confusion. A balanced Harper/ Spellsinger build with Swashbuckler stance can rock anywhere. Use your charms to use your enemies against eachother. Weaken the uncharmed ones. Get in to melee or ranged only when the said charm/control effects and your avoidance issues are settled.


    Keep your buffs up Greater heroism, Displacement (when things go south) and Elemental resistances. Also Glitterdust and Soundburst are cheap spells for awesome avoidance. Haste for you, Slow for the enemy Champion or Boss. Spellsinger SLAs such as Reverberate, Horn of Thunder, Enthrallment are all strong abilites.


    Although it is tough at the start; once get used to it casters can be much better than physical classes. You are the hand that hold the strings of the puppets.

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    899

    Default

    It can make things a bit chaotic, but if you use a summon monster spell/scroll to go start the fight for you it might give you time to do some crowd control or pick out the baddie you want to focus on. String long the monsters in a path you have already cleared. Just be aware that if you fascinate, your summon will happily go around breaking everything free from your music (just to help you on your path to becoming a soulstone).

    As other's have said, crowd control and don't get hit.

    You have picked a difficult build for a first life elite runner...

  11. #11
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    570

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by guzzlr View Post
    You have picked a difficult build for a first life elite runner...
    This. Expect that build to mostly get WAXED. Especially considering the nature of the question it sounds like not only a pretty hard build to keep alive, but that you don't even have much experience.

    Historically the only bards that worked ok that resembled what you are doing maxxed cha and CC and still were *mostly* support type characters that could solo somewhat slowly.

    Every other suggestion is just icing over this basic fact that the player, and the toon, don't have enough experience.

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remember1 View Post
    I cant do quests of level 5 or more on hard or elite because of melee Champions. I'm a melee bard and when I fight melee Champions they kill me with one shot. How do you handle melee Champions? Tyvm.

    If u wanna solo and it is your first character you should solo on normal
    Orr un in a party

    To deal with them use all form of cc u have
    Max charisma with items and spell focus items
    Soundburst lvl 2, hold person lvl 2 spell
    Charm person lvl 1

    Or take an hireling with sounburst

    I dont think they will work in elite (u need good gear and some pasr life), but in hard maybe

    Get ship buffs from guild ship especially 30 elemental res
    Last edited by Alled78; 05-22-2019 at 11:20 AM.
    In game in Cannith as
    Aborim Master (main toon) --- Nickallin (my tank)--- Jjnick (warlock 30) --- Nickpunick ()--- Nickruvido (my healer)--- Nickallinone (shuri build)
    GODS

  13. #13
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Yorkshire Toxic Fringe Zone
    Posts
    6,337

    Default

    There's a bard melee enhancement somewhere that does a knockdown, and you can equip trip gear and drag that feat (which everyone gets for free) to your hotbar. Assuming it is a trippable mob (humanoids pretty much all yes, including undead. Rednames obvs an exception), and where you've got just one champ, save those attacks for when its close. Whilst its down, pummel it and hope your hire can keep you up through the regular mobs pounding on you till it's dead. With a swashbuckler you should be able to murder it pretty fast in the time it takes for it to get up, even at L5.

    Animals or packs of champs are much harder. I can only suggest slotting some perform gear and trying to fascinate stuff, then picking things off one at a time. Again, a thing a bard should excel at in general. Don't be afraid to run away for a while, and pick things off as they reach you. Make sure you have jump for jumping back over the pack if you've managed to separate them from say the archers, so you can charge in and kill off some regular mobs and stop some of that constant incoming stream.

    Essentially, target lone champs first. But when there's a group of them, try to keep regular mobs between you and them and get rid of the adds first. Then use run away/turn and slice/run away tactics to deal with the remaining champs.

    Its not always going to work. First life on elite with looted gear will be tough. Get to 3BC explorer area and grind yourself an assassin's blade if you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge
    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    My words are great. Even out of context.

  14. #14
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Yorkshire Toxic Fringe Zone
    Posts
    6,337

    Default

    Oh also here's a thing: sometimes champs on elite will get a combination of buffs that works so well with their attacks that yeah, they WILL kill you in one shot. That's pretty normal, especially when you're starting out.

    If its every melee champ though, you likely have a hit point/defenses problem, you might need to think about dropping to hard for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    The best of the best DDO players generally overperform when given a real challenge
    Quote Originally Posted by Amundir View Post
    My words are great. Even out of context.

  15. #15
    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    Oh also here's a thing: sometimes champs on elite will get a combination of buffs that works so well with their attacks that yeah, they WILL kill you in one shot. That's pretty normal, especially when you're starting out.

    If its every melee champ though, you likely have a hit point/defenses problem, you might need to think about dropping to hard for a while.








    Good point. (Especially true for wannabe solo Reaper runs...Been there...)

  16. #16
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    3,929

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remember1 View Post
    I´m almost playing solo with hireling.
    Should be perfectly doable...

    A first life character with low gear.
    Yeah, that is what it is, and a universal issue - only new characters with "rich uncles" can avoid that. Haunt the Action House. Try to keep your Fortification, Resistance, +Con/False Life/HP items at-level. Also your DC's, which for a Bard means +Cha and +Perform items. And for combat, your main combat stat (+Str?), and have as good a weapon as you can lay your hands on (there are various forum threads re this one).

    The build is a flavor build: race Human, with strength, constitution, dexterity and charisma on 14.
    Hrmmm - I like flavor builds more than the average player, but they're a voluntary handicap that you signed up for.

    Starting Con 14 is ample, so that's not a problem. But typically, (and esp on 1st-life) you pick your ONE combat stat (melee OR casting), and rely on that for combat, Casting OR Melee. By taking 14's, you volunteered to give up +1-2 in both, which isn't helping. Not sure whether Dex or Con is your melee stat, but the other isn't that important, not important enough to accept that penalty. Just to be clear on that - "fun" is where you find it, but if dying isn't fun, then a decision needs to be made as to whether "flavor" is more or less fun than that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload