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  1. #1
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Default Assassinate in EE+ sharn: how is it going?

    If you have been using assassinate in the new content I'd like to hear how well it is or is not working for you vs your assassinate DC.

    My first pass through the saga I noticed that my 98 DC was not working well. I'm estimating 10-20% success. I've started a second pass through the chain. General observation is the fleshy mobs are hard to get and the constructs are pretty easy. Can't tell on the wraiths yet, they move enough that i'm not sure if it is a physics miss or an assassinate fail.

    edit:
    I still need to look at the first chain some more, but my DC works pretty good in chain 2 on EE and R1 if I'm running with a larger group. So it appears that the problem was more of detection and physics than DC. Note: my hide and ms are both 123 in EE. Not much should spot me, but it seems that maybe they do, somehow.
    Last edited by redoubt; 05-18-2019 at 11:01 PM.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    If you have been using assassinate in the new content I'd like to hear how well it is or is not working for you vs your assassinate DC.

    My first pass through the saga I noticed that my 98 DC was not working well. I'm estimating 10-20% success. I've started a second pass through the chain. General observation is the fleshy mobs are hard to get and the constructs are pretty easy. Can't tell on the wraiths yet, they move enough that i'm not sure if it is a physics miss or an assassinate fail.

    Observations from my second pass through the saga (more as i go):
    Welcome to sharn: These guys are tough. I was trying to count my attempts. Looks like I'm only succeeding if they fail a save.
    Red rain:
    Best laid plans: This one went pretty good. Not that it makes sense, but I was able to assassinate most of the constructs. 98 DC worked well in here.
    Same old song:
    Just business:

    No Refunds:
    House of Pain:
    Blown Deadline:
    Reach for the Sky:

    (All my observations are from EE unless I specify otherwise.)

    I ran on R1:
    Welcome to Sharn: 0 assassinations, 1 kill = pathetic.
    Best Laid Plans: 3 or 4+ assassinations, several kills.

    I have been usually top 3 or 4 in Kills, sometimes 1st or 2nd in DDO, but The Sharn expansion is odd and don't know what's going on in stealth play or assassination attempts.
    My DC is 100 with Assassin ring on and no Assassinate bonus yet from filagree set, which I plan to eventually add.

    I'm not sure if combat logs tells you anything about assassination attempts or where to find out what's going on in the mechanics of assassination attempts.

  3. #3
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinoeWhines View Post
    I'm not sure if combat logs tells you anything about assassination attempts or where to find out what's going on in the mechanics of assassination attempts.
    I agree that the feedback for assassinate is very weak. There are a lot of reasons it might not work, but we have no way to know which of the reasons caused the failure.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  4. #4
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    It's been pretty clear for a while that nobody at SSG is knowledgeable able this style of play, and that no design effort will be put towards this making this build fun to play.

    If you try to post about it or get help, you will just be harassed here, or told by some player/dev that they can play just fine.

    Sad but true.
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    It's been pretty clear for a while that nobody at SSG is knowledgeable able this style of play, and that no design effort will be put towards this making this build fun to play.

    If you try to post about it or get help, you will just be harassed here, or told by some player/dev that they can play just fine.

    Sad but true.
    I remember the days when you can hit Bluff and call out a single mob to you and work on strategy and stealth.
    At one point Rogues where able to Cheat Death and bring themselves back alive.
    And a Mechanic Rogue could make a pet Construct canine to help out in quests.

    SSG please bring back what Rogues had available to them. But the play-style is where we got hit below the belt. Rogues causing Dungeon Alert is too OP for the mobs, and not WAI. padding more assassinate-able types of creatures doesn't fix this issue.
    Look to DnD for what Rogues can do in regards to trickery and stealth. Being able to steal weapons, or ventriloquist a voice to lead them the wrong way, as a scout you have studied mobs and are able to be two steps ahead of them and know which way they are heading. Little feet or pathway lines should be on the floor to know which way they are going to move to counter their attack/action.

  6. #6
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinoeWhines View Post
    I remember the days when you can hit Bluff and call out a single mob to you and work on strategy and stealth.
    At one point Rogues where able to Cheat Death and bring themselves back alive.
    And a Mechanic Rogue could make a pet Construct canine to help out in quests.

    SSG please bring back what Rogues had available to them. But the play-style is where we got hit below the belt. Rogues causing Dungeon Alert is too OP for the mobs, and not WAI. padding more assassinate-able types of creatures doesn't fix this issue.
    Look to DnD for what Rogues can do in regards to trickery and stealth. Being able to steal weapons, or ventriloquist a voice to lead them the wrong way, as a scout you have studied mobs and are able to be two steps ahead of them and know which way they are heading. Little feet or pathway lines should be on the floor to know which way they are going to move to counter their attack/action.
    I really wish there was someone on the other end to listen to you.

    There are no devs that play assassins, with the chief evidence being their misunderstanding of the play style, and solutions that make game play less entertaining rather than more entertaining.

    I doubt anyone that can make a game decision reads here.

    SSG has made a total mockery of assassin.
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    I really wish there was someone on the other end to listen to you.

    There are no devs that play assassins, with the chief evidence being their misunderstanding of the play style, and solutions that make game play less entertaining rather than more entertaining.

    I doubt anyone that can make a game decision reads here.

    SSG has made a total mockery of assassin.
    Assassin so fun but dead today...mechanic and vistani rogue shine. Sad too because I know many that prefer to play a true stealth assassin...bluff an all.

  8. #8
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    It seems like mob fort saves are significantly higher in the first quest of Chain 1, more so than in the others.

    I'm not sure if this is accidental or not, but since it happens as soon as you're in the door it certainly creates an impression. For the pack overall it didn't seem too bad, and I think it will be less of an issue after regearing with the new items for a DC bump.

    What I found more difficult about the new content was the crazy movement patterns some of the new monsters have. Having to chase stuff everywhere really dumps DPS for melees.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 05-19-2019 at 08:29 PM.
    Astrican on Khyber

  9. #9
    Master Assassin nokowi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blerkington View Post
    It seems like mob fort saves are significantly higher in the first quest of Chain 1, more so than in the others.

    I'm not sure if this is accidental or not, but since it happens as soon as you're in the door it certainly creates an impression. For the pack overall it didn't seem too bad, and I think it will be less of an issue after regearing with the new items for a DC bump.

    What I found more difficult about the new content was the crazy movement patterns some of the new monsters have. Having to chase stuff everywhere really dumps DPS for melees.

    Thanks.
    The first part is good to hear. I hope you're having fun with Sharn!
    It's much easier to demonize those providing feedback (whining, childish, bringing the forums down, etc) or minimize their voice (small number, vocal, etc) than to accept the fact that the agro/stealth system just missed the mark.
    A good company learns to listen to their customers.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokowi View Post
    The first part is good to hear. I hope you're having fun with Sharn!
    Aside from a few small things, I am. Some of them may be bugs and others can just be played around. It has been laggier than I'd prefer though.

    Not sure this content will have the same longevity as Ravenloft and some of the gear design is very questionable. But the content is generally imaginative, enjoyable and looks good. I really like the wilderness area and there are some good additions monster-wise too.

    Take care.
    Astrican on Khyber

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    If you have been using assassinate in the new content I'd like to hear how well it is or is not working for you vs your assassinate DC.

    My first pass through the saga I noticed that my 98 DC was not working well. I'm estimating 10-20% success. I've started a second pass through the chain. General observation is the fleshy mobs are hard to get and the constructs are pretty easy. Can't tell on the wraiths yet, they move enough that i'm not sure if it is a physics miss or an assassinate fail.

    edit:
    I still need to look at the first chain some more, but my DC works pretty good in chain 2 on EE and R1 if I'm running with a larger group. So it appears that the problem was more of detection and physics than DC. Note: my hide and ms are both 123 in EE. Not much should spot me, but it seems that maybe they do, somehow.

    with 108 dc not much i failed on , few champs. Ive solod most r3-r5 with a few like security detail which are a stealthers dream on r7. Not much problem with reapers since I have meld and can just aggro them with stealth and pull them away, kill them then sneak by the rest.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Most brute mobs should have around 120-130 Fort DC.

    Things like most of the consructs/forgewraiths have scarecrow levels of Saves (ie none)

    Focus your assassinates on Golems, Iron Defenders, Floaty Eye-Thingamajigs, and Forgewraiths.

    If you're going to try to get a moderately successful assassinate DC on a brute mobs (ex. goblin fighters etc.) you would most likely have to completely gimp your DPS.

    My 72 DC assassinate is virtually a 100% against the mobs i described as being main targets. At this rate the Fort saves for higher end mobs has outstripped the abilities functional maximum. Aim for the easy mobs and DPS the other stuff.
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

  13. #13
    Community Member kamimitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow_Jumper View Post
    Things like most of the consructs/forgewraiths have scarecrow levels of Saves (ie none)

    Focus your assassinates on Golems, Iron Defenders, Floaty Eye-Thingamajigs, and Forgewraiths.

    If you're going to try to get a moderately successful assassinate DC on a brute mobs (ex. goblin fighters etc.) you would most likely have to completely gimp your DPS.

    My 72 DC assassinate is virtually a 100% against the mobs i described as being main targets.
    I've had a very similar experience. My DC is only slightly higher than yours (can't fit an Assassinate item into current gear setup... need that damn Strahd Dagger to rearrange **** and open up a slot). Anyway, yeah- golems, defenders, and forgewraiths are worth going for the assassinate. Pretty much everything else is Dire Charge (or wait for my caster buddy to Mass Hold) and swing for the fences.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vorachtin View Post
    with 108 dc not much i failed on , few champs. Ive solod most r3-r5 with a few like security detail which are a stealthers dream on r7. Not much problem with reapers since I have meld and can just aggro them with stealth and pull them away, kill them then sneak by the rest.

    What gear are you wearing to get your DC to 108, was curious.
    The new content forces me to gear as if I was a caster just to raise my Intelligence. "Empower", Greater Spell focus
    This is what I seem to be having to gear with:

    Trinket: ?

    Helmet: ?

    *GOOGLES:Legendary Dusk Lenses Goggles--Thralls of the Fungus Lord, End Chest
    Potency+154/Ins Potency+77/Enh Metamagic-Empower/Enh Metamagic-Max

    Neck:+22 Intelligence Caster Artifact item.
    But to Add Quality Assassinate will need: Family's Blessing --Raid
    Quality Assassinate+2/Insight Arm Pierc+17%/Deadly+17/Decept+18

    *ARMOUR: Legendary Order's Garb Outfit--Best Laid Plans, End chest
    Fort+214%/Phy Shelt+54/Except Spell Power+30/Except Spell Lore +10%

    Cloak: ?

    *BRACERS: Legendary Aetherband--Roll Call, End chest
    Insight Spell Pen+5/Spell Cost Reduct+10%/Red Spell Threat+62%/Shield Bon AC+21

    Gloves: ?

    ^ WASTE: Legendary Black Satin Waist--The Magma Must Flow, End Chest
    NearFin - Qual Int+5/Spell Pen+9/Qual Spell Foc Mast+2/Spell Res+47/Grn Aug

    RING1: Ring of the Silver Tongue

    # Ring2: The Legendary Shattered Onyx--Reach for the Sky, End chest
    NearFin - Insight Int+10/Profane Spell Focus II(+2 Prof bonus DC of all spells.)
    Insight Resist+8/Insight Dodge+10%/Blue Aug

    Boots: ?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    *3 piece set adds +3 Artifact bonus to Int, Wis, Cha.
    ^Qual Int+5
    #Insight Int+10
    Last edited by VinoeWhines; 06-07-2019 at 11:48 PM.

  15. #15
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jskinner937 View Post
    Assassin so fun but dead today...mechanic and vistani rogue shine. Sad too because I know many that prefer to play a true stealth assassin...bluff an all.
    Pretty much this, the vision for rogues is obscene xbow dps. Thats all sadly... almost all archetypes in this games are crippled proxy to the hackfest builds.

  16. #16
    Community Member Avocado's Avatar
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    I've had very little fun on my assassin in sharn. Sitting at 103 dc in reaper with buffs and i havent been very successful. Maybe 20% of the time in chain 1. That being said, the dc hike, mixed with massive bonuses to ac that mobs get now, assassinate is becoming more obsolete. 30% of my hits are grazing now which means assassinate has 30% chance of just flat out not working due to ac. Mobs also seem to have some resistance to sneak attack now. Some mobs that were bluffed or shived were only taking SA damage some of the time. Seems like it might be time to move to ranger for my dps.

  17. #17
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avocado View Post
    I've had very little fun on my assassin in sharn. Sitting at 103 dc in reaper with buffs and i havent been very successful. Maybe 20% of the time in chain 1. That being said, the dc hike, mixed with massive bonuses to ac that mobs get now, assassinate is becoming more obsolete. 30% of my hits are grazing now which means assassinate has 30% chance of just flat out not working due to ac. Mobs also seem to have some resistance to sneak attack now. Some mobs that were bluffed or shived were only taking SA damage some of the time. Seems like it might be time to move to ranger for my dps.
    Fortification.

    My 70 Assassinate DC works basically 100% of the time when I decide to use it
    The Shadow Assassin, and all around Miserable Elitist

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