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  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Oh, and as long as Lynnabel gets to remove something based on pet peeve (remember: this was all just casual weekend conversation) I vote for the old Guild Augment Slot NPCs in House Kundarak.
    I can't imagine anyone still uses them. I used to be a stickler for them, even after the change, because a large spell point augment gives more spell points than the new ship buffs, but even I gave up on them after around a year.

    I bet if you put in code to count how many times someone either buys a guild augment or applies on in the stone of change, you might find that literally nobody ever uses them.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xgya View Post
    Saying people that could abuse the game using unintended systems can choose not to do so isn't a rational argument.
    The presence of those buffs causes strain on low level balance, which limits the amount of low level quests the devs can release.
    Much like players could choose not to dupe items, but the ones that DID ruined a few events for the community as a whole.

    Saying "then don't" didn't change the fact that some items got around a LOT faster than they should have, lowering their value to no end for the people that did it without duping.
    Saying "then don't" doesn't change the fact that average resists are MUCH higher at those levels than they should be, making the monsters deal more damage to compensate, which actually negatively impacts those that don't, making the buffs, and the run to the airship every death, almost mandatory.
    Hold resist buffs aren't an exploit, and it's incredibly disingenious to claim they are equivalent to one because some devs said they might remove them. The devs aren't going to release tons of new low level content because they know it won't sell very well. There's tons more low level xp than is needed. The low level content they DO release is full of crowds of hp bags and is pretty much always ignored outside gear farming. They could also put in a difficulty where +30 resist buffs are required.. oh wait they did! Now how do you do that level of difficulty without the buffs?

    Your argument is self contradicting anyways, if the mobs "deal more damage to compensate" then the hold buffs are an expected part of play at that level. I guarantee you the devs aren't going to revisist all level 1-10 content to reduce damage when they remove hold buffs, that's an expensive proposition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Any player who has been playing the game as long as I have know the Greater Resist Shrine ( Elemental resist 30's) are indeed Op'd <snip>.... ( on elite).
    Elite is the new casual, step up to reaper or step out of conversations about what other people actually need to play at their current level. You don't need to level up at all to roleplay in the marketplace, should we get rid of level 2 as well because roleplayers don't need it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    In the past we treasured and utilized our resist element cloaks and I still have level 9 greater resist cloaks I collected back in the day.
    We did regular gear swaps to help curtail the damage and protection 60 potions were a thing at low levels.
    I know people who thought having to meditate for 15 minutes before they could play for 10 minutes was just completely acceptable in EQ. I don't want to play a trivial micromanagement RPG, if you do you go right ahead and ignore hold buffs. I've already got 3-4 tabs of stuff on each character, it needs to be reduced, not increased to satisfy your nostalgia. Bad enough that this horrible 90's era game design is the best thing SSG devs could come up with for the latest raid, if they nerf in order to expand it to level 1-10 they can expect far fewer paying customers.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I can't imagine anyone still uses them. I used to be a stickler for them, even after the change, because a large spell point augment gives more spell points than the new ship buffs, but even I gave up on them after around a year.

    I bet if you put in code to count how many times someone either buys a guild augment or applies on in the stone of change, you might find that literally nobody ever uses them.
    Entirely possible, but it's more work to remove them than it is to just... not do anything. Oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    You used to seem cool, Lyinbell, but I guess you've gone corporate now.
    My name has one L at the end of it, not two.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  4. #204
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Entirely possible, but it's more work to remove them than it is to just... not do anything. Oh well.
    Yay! Indifference, yay!
    The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. - Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Hi Welcome

  5. #205
    Community Member Paisheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post

    My name has one L at the end of it, not two.
    Lol. Affirming his view to thus prove otherwise

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    *Snip*
    Elite is the new casual, step up to reaper or step out of conversations about what other people actually need to play at their current level. You don't need to level up at all to roleplay in the marketplace, should we get rid of level 2 as well because roleplayers don't need it?*Snip*
    So Reaper mode would become more difficult. Oh Boo Hoo. Reaper is supposed to be a challenge.
    You have an "Easy Button" and you want to keep it.
    And who mentioned anything about "Roleplaying in Marketplace?"
    The game mechanics required you to complete Waterworks before you could pass through the Marketplace Entrance gate.
    It had nothing to do with Roleplaying. If you wanted to leave the Harbor you had to complete Water Works.
    Originally Posted by grodon9999
    "I'm beginning to think a lot of people play this game because it's cheaper than paying for a Dominatrix."
    Disciplines Disciples - 54 Alts on Khyber and counting

  7. #207
    Community Member Psiandron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Yay! Indifference, yay!

    Quote Originally Posted by MalkavianX View Post
    and then dropped it like a burning kitten

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    So Reaper mode would become more difficult. Oh Boo Hoo. Reaper is supposed to be a challenge.
    You have an "Easy Button" and you want to keep it.
    And who mentioned anything about "Roleplaying in Marketplace?"
    The game mechanics required you to complete Waterworks before you could pass through the Marketplace Entrance gate.
    It had nothing to do with Roleplaying. If you wanted to leave the Harbor you had to complete Water Works.
    Roleplayers are about as relevant as elite players when it comes time to determine what’s necessary to succeed, being my obvious point. You have your easy button, playing elite, I want to keep trying higher reaper and I can’t succeed there without better defense, something you don’t have to worry about, which makes your opinion on what’s needed in other people’s game irrelevant.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    1) Remove item wear (maybe keep it in-quest, but on leaving your gear heals the same way your character does)
    2) Automate vendoring/decon so that you can do it in any public place and with a single click

    Without addressing those two issues, many people will still be running to the ship every hour or so even without a cargo hold.
    If you're vendoring (which I do until late epics) or repairing, there's a lot of other options vs just your cargo hold. Like if I'm in Ravenloft I'll just stop by the bar every few quests to repair and vendor, and 5 hours in-quest is the whole chain vs ~20 loading screens and walk time to Airship>Cargo Hold>Airship>Marketplace N>House J>RL. I realize that's one of the most biased examples, and if I'm using airship to get from one point to another it's often worth vendoring there, but I've spent a lot of time in Ravenloft recently and it's a significant difference.

    For deconstructing I can certainly see an argument, although I mostly do that via script and at cap.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  10. #210
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    I'll say again if the new style Grand Reliquary with Elemental resists had been scaled to the same as the existing cargo hold resists to begin with (and didn't stack) we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Think about it. If it had been 10/20/30 instead of 5/10/15 from the beginning this wouldn't even be a talking point.

    But the whole idea that cargo hold buffs are OP is 9 years too late. Let that sink in. 9 years. Yeah, because they were introduced with Update 5 in June of 2010. There is NO WAY those same buffs are more OP today with Champions, Reaper, mobs that do more damage and have insanely more HP than in content created then. And what's more they still have to be earned with guild levels. Now I don't know how many of you just jumped in on whatever high-level guild you could but my little family guild has slowly leveled itself over the years. We are proud of each and every level we get and we are still under 92. We were thankful to earn access to the 30 pt resist shrines. And we'll be thankful when we eventually earn the 5% xp shrine.
    Blood Scented Axe Body Spray (Thelanis)
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  11. #211
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I might even just put the mailbox and stuff on the top deck anyway, who knows :P gotta keep you guys on your toes.
    Do that if you want....but don't get rid of the "mailbox and stuff" in the cargo hold.

    Like it or not....it is the default gathering place on the ship for most guilds...mine included. If you would like to change the name from Cargo hold to something else...for lore purposes...then by all means, do so. But don't get rid of it.


    I actually rarely use the legacy buffs. Occasionally I'll use the elemental resistances...but most of the time not. However....do not get rid of the Mailbox, Auctioneer, Banker, Guild Chests, Teleporters, Stone of Change or Training Dummy.
    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    Opening up the casual difficulty for raids would have been a much better solution. Since all the whiners are just complaining about not being able to play through the content they paid for. Just give them their casual difficulty. Since they are just a bunch of casuals.


    Proud Member of the Bunch of Casuals Club!!!!!

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    Roleplayers are about as relevant as elite players when it comes time to determine what’s necessary to succeed, being my obvious point. You have your easy button, playing elite, I want to keep trying higher reaper and I can’t succeed there without better defense, *Snip*
    Well based on the comments by SSG Officials it seems your Easy/Easier button is not in jeopardy so you don't have to worry about it's demise anymore.
    Originally Posted by grodon9999
    "I'm beginning to think a lot of people play this game because it's cheaper than paying for a Dominatrix."
    Disciplines Disciples - 54 Alts on Khyber and counting

  13. #213
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The situation with the Cargo Hold is a good example of plans that changed based on community want. Initially that entire Cargo Hold was meant to go away, along with all of those old ship buffs and the system underlying it (maintenance NPC, etc.) But, in part because of the powerful nature of those resistance buffs, there was a huge outcry, and it's been kept in. Even today we see people quite opposed to the idea of removing those buffs and the Cargo Hold. Realistically, I don't think it was ever the design intention to make the Cargo Hold the default gathering place on airships. Hard to say if there will ever be a time where this is addressed, but as others have elucidated, it's obviously not a priority.

    Oh, and as long as Lynnabel gets to remove something based on pet peeve (remember: this was all just casual weekend conversation) I vote for the old Guild Augment Slot NPCs in House Kundarak.
    If you think the power benefit from the ship buffs is tolerable and the wishes of the community outweigh the objections from the developers, then you should go the next step and make the legacy buffs a part of the 5-hours-buff-system.
    The same for the functions currently available in the cargo hold, make them appear on the top deck with additional hook points (maybe not everything but at least the frequently used functions like bank vendor and mailbox).
    This would be just a next consequent design step to make DDO better for almost all players.
    Again, if the decision is that the legacy buffs give a tolerable power increase to player characters.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
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    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
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  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I can't imagine anyone still uses them. I used to be a stickler for them, even after the change, because a large spell point augment gives more spell points than the new ship buffs, but even I gave up on them after around a year.

    I bet if you put in code to count how many times someone either buys a guild augment or applies on in the stone of change, you might find that literally nobody ever uses them.
    I have an old ml3 large slot helm with higher wizardry on it than current scaling. Slotted with an SP crystal, it means I basically never run out of SP until better hats come online at 5 or 6. So I do use about 1 large crystal per life, not counting some old low-level icy-bursted weapons with guild slots that I pull out for nostalgia every once in a while.

    On the other hand, one stack of crystals will last approximately forever, so I probably wouldn't even notice the vendors being gone for 2-3 years.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Now I don't know how many of you just jumped in on whatever high-level guild you could but my little family guild has slowly leveled itself over the years. We are proud of each and every level we get and we are still under 92. We were thankful to earn access to the 30 pt resist shrines. And we'll be thankful when we eventually earn the 5% xp shrine.
    Right there with ya. Mostly a two person casual guild (occasionally 4) that has made 75th level. We could very easily pop over into a bigger guild, but that's not how we do!

    I will be very happy when we can get a bigger ship. But is is going to be a long, long time from now.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I bet if you put in code to count how many times someone either buys a guild augment or applies on in the stone of change, you might find that literally nobody ever uses them.
    You would not find that at all. Yes, some people still use them routinely.

    EDIT: which is another reason I don't want my Cargo Hold's Stone of Change "ripped out".
    Last edited by SirValentine; 05-13-2019 at 06:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  17. #217
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    Sure the resists are a bit OP at low levels. (And no big deal for most of the game. And no tax on fun at all if you just ignore them.)

    But will anyone on the "rip them all out!" side care to address the things other than resists that have been mentioned? E.g., trap crafting, storage, the small Balance/Haggle or AC buffs, and so on? Why do those things need removal? Baby, bathwater, et cetera?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noir View Post
    Any player who has been playing the game as long as I have know the Greater Resist Shrine ( Elemental resist 30's) are indeed Op'd
    Are the convenient?? - YES.
    Do they trivialize low level content. Most assuredly they do.

    The best example of this I can come up with off hand is the second quest in the waterworks chain.
    Resist acid 30 allows you to completely ignore what one time was a very serious hazard in the quest.
    The acid tunnel. In the past that tunnel was serious business and you had to actually worry about turning off the valves as you progressed down it. With resist 30 acid you can now completely ignore the damage and run full speed (without evasion) right down the tunnel (both ways) without a care in the world ( on elite). Yes this is without a doubt OP in relation to what the designers of this quest intended when it was created. (Waterworks was required to be finished before you were even allowed access into the Marketplace.)

    In the past we treasured and utilized our resist element cloaks and I still have level 9 greater resist cloaks I collected back in the day.
    We did regular gear swaps to help curtail the damage and protection 60 potions were a thing at low levels.

    I still maintain all the greater resist shrines in my ship but if they disappeared I would certainly cope and adjust play to compensate for the new challenges not having the OP resists would bring back to the game. The resist 30's are just another "easy" button that players cling to and are reluctant to give up.

    I have always expected them to be removed based on what the DEVs stated when the new ships and amenities were introduced in the game.
    If they follow through with what they said it should come as no surprise to anyone.
    You realize that these buffs are voluntary right? The simple solution would just be to not using them and worry less what other people do. Ultimately what you experience for yourself should be more important than worrying about others enjoyment or entertainment.

  19. #219
    Hatchery Hero Dark_Helmet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnubisPrime View Post
    Agreed. We should be thankful that we don't loose XP each time we die as in ~2007 when death meant XP loss. A tool tip was finally fixed not long ago that still said "....removes any XP penalties that you have".
    I honestly loved that you lost XP if you died - until they made Shroud which requires a death. I also loved Curse meant your soul being cursed forever, blindness was permanent - unless they got removed. They also killed Immunity to Disease and Neutralize Poison:

    (Combat): You are hit by hesstess's poison: medusa snake venom.
    (Combat): Magical Poison: You have been poisoned by the snake bite of a Medusa and may soon die.
    (Combat): You attempt to save versus poison: medusa snake venom. You roll a 16 (+28): save!
    (Combat): Hesstess's poison: medusa snake venom effect has been removed from you.
    (Combat): Hesstess's poison: medusa snake venom hit you for 582 points of poison damage.
    ...I had a poison immunity item on...


    If I was a conspiracy theorist, the reason they want to go to something like pots is that their kobolds spam dispel magic and any buffs from wands and pots would get dispelled (I know, a player suggested it, but we have to blame devs for EVERYTHING).


    The idea that resists scale by levels is from the books and they have long chucked the rules (champs, DA, etc) that scale way above and beyond the levels they apply. Healing was scaled/buffed to a larger degree, but not resists.

    Guild augments... another system abandoned. Just like the idea of guild levels and different buffs for higher levels!

    It does astound the mind that systems are abandoned and they only want to revisit one to nerf (again, who said everyone has to use the buffs).
    Oh, that's easy. I didn't farm them. I just cheated. -Meghan
    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post
    lol, I didnt give it a QA pass.

  20. #220

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    The final airship pass should address the following:

    1) Resolve the old and new airship amenity systems so that there is a unified buff/amenity system for Guilds (whatever that resolution happens to be);
    2) Fill in the gaps in the new amenity system with an All-Class Trainer, complete Legendary Green Steel, as well as new features such as the Guild Trophy system;
    3) Introduce new content centered around House Lyrandar in Sharn. This Dragonmarked House has yet to be explored in DDO (other than the airship showroom in Stormreach Harbor), so a House Lyrandar themed update could be released as a quarterly adventure pack along with all of the Guild airship changes.

    https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/House_Lyrandar

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