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  1. #1

    Default Legacy ship buff question/thought/gripe/hope

    Maybe this has been discussed, but I've not found it and if this is not the appropriate place, please move me.

    Now then, I realize that some coding would need to be done at the least, but how hard would it be to include the legacy buffs (resistances, etc) into the amenity bar? Change the hook type for the bar to require it to go into the hold, if shipboard interaction is what is desired, but I find it difficult to believe that it is impossible to change the legacy buffs to match the others given by the bar. I'm sure the development team could come up with another use for the current legacy buff NPCs to keep them viable in game.



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    Original thought process from the devs, iirc, is that the cargo hold amenities would eventually go away. No idea when 'eventually' will be though.

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    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnicallyZero View Post
    Maybe this has been discussed, but I've not found it and if this is not the appropriate place, please move me.

    Now then, I realize that some coding would need to be done at the least, but how hard would it be to include the legacy buffs (resistances, etc) into the amenity bar? Change the hook type for the bar to require it to go into the hold, if shipboard interaction is what is desired, but I find it difficult to believe that it is impossible to change the legacy buffs to match the others given by the bar. I'm sure the development team could come up with another use for the current legacy buff NPCs to keep them viable in game.
    My understanding is that when they updated to the amenity bar they were planning to remove cargo hold amenities entirely. There was a lot of player outcry however, so they postponed removing them.

    They're really strong to be 5-hour buffs that don't leave on death (esp the energy resistances) so I don't mind the current setup.

    I'd also be in favor of removing the cargo hold amenities and buffing the long-term ones slightly (so it's not as big of a loss). But like 30 Electric Resistance makes a Kobold Shaman into a weak enemy vs a very threatening one if you're a low-health toon.
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    If I'm being honest, I'd love to rip the entire Cargo hold out of DDO entirely and just put a Mailbox, bank, vendor, etc, all on the top deck of every ship. I find the legacy buffs a tax on fun in DDO.
    Last edited by Lynnabel; 05-09-2019 at 02:50 PM.
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    Community Member ThomasHunter's Avatar
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    Default Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If I'm being honest, I'd love to rip the entire Cargo hold out of DDO entirely and just put a Mailbox, bank, vendor, etc, all on the top deck of every ship. I find the legacy buffs a general actual tax on fun in DDO.
    Initially, if I am remembering correctly, these buffs were supposed to fade away. You could "buy" a bunch, but then that feature was supposed to be taken away once the "new" guild buffs were implemented. So, when the current guild buffs were released, I figured that I should simply wean myself off of them (since it was a short term thing) and have done so. I rarely go to our cargo hold. Every once in a while on a low level toon I'll grad a resistance, but then it makes me feel dirty. Heh. Any toon that can of mine, has Energy Resist for this reason!

    The one positive is that it loads quicker than the level with our bank and bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If I'm being honest, I'd love to rip the entire Cargo hold out of DDO entirely and just put a Mailbox, bank, vendor, etc, all on the top deck of every ship. I find the legacy buffs a general actual tax on fun in DDO.

    That is a very sad perspective , especially since you work on the game we love so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If I'm being honest, I'd love to rip the entire Cargo hold out of DDO entirely and just put a Mailbox, bank, vendor, etc, all on the top deck of every ship. I find the legacy buffs a general actual tax on fun in DDO.
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    I've always thought the cargo hold could be turned into a pvp area for guild related events.

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    Maybe I'm just a tool, but I always loved that lightning resistance buff. Dying noobly in the harbor quests when everybody else is zerging is no fun.

    That said, things change. And I definitely wouldn't mind ripping out the cargo hold and putting the mailbox/bank etc on the top deck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If I'm being honest, I'd love to rip the entire Cargo hold out of DDO entirely and just put a Mailbox, bank, vendor, etc, all on the top deck of every ship. I find the legacy buffs a tax on fun in DDO.
    I would support this. I will buy a bunch DDO points the day you do remove them.

    They were supposed to be obsoleted once the new system was in place but it would seem that the outcry from some has delayed that indefinitely. Of course, now you are getting requests to improve the system that was supposed to be removed. Delete them now. At the very least you should make the ship work on "new" or Legacy buffs. If people want the old ones so bad they can make the choice. Now let me go get my fire retardant.

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    I for one, like the cargo hold buffs, specifically because they can't be dispelled. Sure I have to go back and get them every hour but certain fights seem to automatically dispel buffs like resist fire EVERY time the fight starts, sometimes multiple times during the fight. Looking at you Enter the Kobold and Lair of Summoning. My barbarian certainly can't spam resist fire 30 at level 5.

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    I think the bigger issue with any kind of change to the cargo hold buffs is a lot of 1-6 level content has been tuned around people having at least 20 if not more to every resist. Without them any class that doesn't have early access to resist energy is going to suddenly be dying hard even in elite to random lightning bolts doing roughly double their normal damage. I know some of that can be potioned or wand cast (lot of consumable resources for what has become a regular quality of life thing). Short of retuning early caster damage, maybe making the amenity buffs to resists (but not the matching spellpower) non scaling and just a straight 15 instead of 5/10/15 would be sufficient to let us drop the cargo hold? Thoughts from others with mathamancy?

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    Community Member Thar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by red_kain View Post
    I for one, like the cargo hold buffs, specifically because they can't be dispelled. Sure I have to go back and get them every hour but certain fights seem to automatically dispel buffs like resist fire EVERY time the fight starts, sometimes multiple times during the fight. Looking at you Enter the Kobold and Lair of Summoning. My barbarian certainly can't spam resist fire 30 at level 5.
    Agreed, the new ship buffs's didn't cover the effects of all of the old ship buffs so that and being in one common area that you don't have to run around to find the bank, mailbox, etc is useful to keep then in the hold.

    i'd be fine with removing if they provided the resists at a lower level and up to the current amount 30+ the other current guild buffs. As long as we had a place with a dummy to hit/dps test, mailbox, bank and tavern all close by.

    along with the extra storage the guild chests provide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by onny View Post
    I think the bigger issue with any kind of change to the cargo hold buffs is a lot of 1-6 level content has been tuned around people having at least 20 if not more to every resist. Without them any class that doesn't have early access to resist energy is going to suddenly be dying hard even in elite to random lightning bolts doing roughly double their normal damage. I know some of that can be potioned or wand cast (lot of consumable resources for what has become a regular quality of life thing). Short of retuning early caster damage, maybe making the amenity buffs to resists (but not the matching spellpower) non scaling and just a straight 15 instead of 5/10/15 would be sufficient to let us drop the cargo hold? Thoughts from others with mathamancy?
    People may have gotten lazy and now rely on the buffs but they certainly are not needed. I do not bother with the Cargo buffs (i find them tedious) and do not suffer the problems that you describe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If I'm being honest, I'd love to rip the entire Cargo hold out of DDO entirely and just put a Mailbox, bank, vendor, etc, all on the top deck of every ship. I find the legacy buffs a tax on fun in DDO.
    They give low level guilds a way to offer a much larger variety of buffs. My 45ish guild has maxed out the newer amenity slots available, and gets good use out of the cargo hold for extra items such as spell resistances that we don't have room for in the main hold. We also get good use out of the storage (that you can buy with plat instead of shards), a working bar, and the device workstation. I personally would be really ticked/ sad and disappointed if you got rid of the cargo hold buffs.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 05-09-2019 at 04:48 PM.

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    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
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    My kids regularly use (and need) the elemental buffs to play with us. I could prepare them and protect them in other ways but we regularly use the AH/bank/mail/tavern in the cargo hold as well and we are still working our way up to the 5% XP shrine. We also use both cargo ship chests to hold equipment for the kids' characters. We are a small family guild (with a couple static friends that return every once in awhile). All rooms are full on the ship and if the cargo hold disappeared we would either have to buy a bigger ship or loose buffs for which we've already purchased to make room for the replacement amenities - Orien Express, Shrine of XP, Guild Storage, and possibly Sellsword's Tavern.

    I know this only represents potential profit for the the devs but to me it represents frustration and dissatisfaction.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    I know this only represents potential profit for the the devs but to me it represents frustration and dissatisfaction.
    I can assure you my hatred for the Legacy Buffs that we promised to tear from the game is entirely about how they warp play. Trucking back to a ship to press 10 buttons every hour and every time you die is a needless waste of playtime. Working through an overcomplicated and antiquated menu when you remember that they still expire is also a needless waste of playtime. It's not fun, it's a chore. If we need to make new Amenities that alleviate the lost resistances, sure, fine, whatever. As long as you'll let me rip that entire map out of the game.

    On a more reassuring note, when I step into threads like this, you don't have to worry about my ulterior motives. I work on DDO because I love DDO, and DDO is doing really really well right now. It's going to be okay, I promise!
    Last edited by Lynnabel; 05-09-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    ... As long as you'll let me rip that entire map out of the game...
    Only if you also consolidate all buffs guild buffs on the buff bar to one icon (it can brake some kind of record for largest tooltip ever), while your at it.

  19. #19
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I can assure you my hatred for the Legacy Buffs that we promised to tear from the game is entirely about how they warp play. Trucking back to a ship to press 10 buttons every hour and every time you die is a needless waste of playtime. Working through an overcomplicated and antiquated menu when you remember that they still expire is also a needless waste of playtime. It's not fun, it's a chore. If we need to make new Amenities that alleviate the lost resistances, sure, fine, whatever. As long as you'll let me rip that entire map out of the game.

    On a more reassuring note, when I step into threads like this, you don't have to worry about my ulterior motives. I work on DDO because I love DDO, and DDO is doing really really well right now. It's going to be okay, I promise!
    Seems much easier/efficient to just change the durations. 2 or 3 hours on the buffs. 90 days from a single contract, maybe even remove the weird stacking rules (3 days on first, 7 days thereafter) if it's not too convoluted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Only if you also consolidate all buffs guild buffs on the buff bar to one icon (it can brake some kind of record for largest tooltip ever), while your at it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by btolson View Post
    Seems much easier/efficient to just change the durations. 2 or 3 hours on the buffs. 90 days from a single contract, maybe even remove the weird stacking rules (3 days on first, 7 days thereafter) if it's not too convoluted.
    Would way rather just delete them all like we promised we would all those years ago. Duration changing, Contract duration changing - those things just spread out the "pain in the butt" incidences but in no way actually fix the real problem - that we have two competing and completely unrelated systems for delivering guild buffs, and one is far superior in literally every way to the other.
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