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  1. #181
    Community Member bls904c2's Avatar
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    i dont see the 1 hour buffs as over powered in cargo hold at all. i see them as leveling the playing field.

    i play 10 toons from 1 fully completion toon, 1 toon heroic, epic completion working on his racial, 3 toons having 3-4 PLs and 5 first life toons.

    my completion toons dont need the resistances they have the reaper points and PLs that give me the bonus to saves, higher ability scores, and the hit points to handle what is thrown at them.

    on my 1st life toons lower build points, lower ability scores, lower saves, lower hitpoints. not by a little in heroics by a lot. epics the gear can even out the saves, ability scores, so the bonuses is a smaller percent increase.

    a plus 4 to all ability when is huge at level 3-6 not so much at 30

    that plus 4 minimum difference gives at least a +2 to saves, you also get 100 + extra hit points from reaper trees and the at least extra 4 con with PL bonuses (barb/ primal epic PL).

    nothing scales well in this game

    the bonuses in the guild ship cargo hold are a crutch to help low past lives in low heroics. it makes things more survivable. it is no fun running behind a powerhouse distroying the level as you run to catch up.

    i use the element resistances in low PL toons they help me keep up with others that have loads of PL. my completionist toons i dont do the cargo shiphold buffs. they are not needed.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    But back to the new players you are worried about, I would rather suggest giving new players a way to get progression for a reasonable price, e.g. you could buy a kind of "DDO keep up bundle" that includes most, if not all adventure packs and include also a certain numbers of past lives and reaper experience points.
    Of course not everything, just enough that there is still something to do for them for ~2 years if they play every day (without pay to win).
    That's a pretty neat idea.

    I was thinking of adding this to the VIP perks, as people HAVE been asking for VIP to hand out something more than the current benefits it does, but that would lock out the character as soon as VIP ended, which might mean a whole lot of lost progress if the person playing it stopped the subscription, and, unlike characters with levels in classes you don't own, you couldn't eventually buy the class and unlock the character again, so this would probably not fit the bill.

    Still, a nice thought.

    My first suggestion to help out new players has been pretty simple: make reincarnation hand out both a class AND a race TR if you give both hearts. Halve the time needed to get reincarnation bonuses. The hardcore players already have most of their lives, so they wouldn't see much of a change, but for anyone leveling alts or introducing someone to the game, this would make the prospect of getting the mountain of past lives available a bit less soul crushing.
    This doesn't directly hand power to new players, something we COULD work on, but it does allow them to gather it faster.
    As for Reaper, the XP curve on RXP is already pretty lenient for the first few points, and it's a system that you work on parallel to past lives, so it doesn't need any extra progression.

  3. #183
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    Any time you use the words 'objectively' and 'fun' together like that, you're already so wrong you'll never be right.
    Yes, you can use the word objectively and fun together and Lynnabel is objectively right.
    To interrupt your quests and to go back to your guild ship to get new buffs is indeed objectively an inconvenience that the majority of players would not consider as fun.
    For these reasons, the new ship buffs last much longer and also through a death.
    Or do you think it would be a good idea that the new ship buffs last now also only one hour and they disappear on a death?
    Most likely not because if you are honest you agree this would be less fun for you too!

    Of course, if you consider only things as objectively when they are as evident as the fact that 1+1=2 then almost nothing is objectively correct beside it is mathematically correct.
    But the common sense sees many more things as objectively when they are sufficiently proven as correct or the majority agree to it.

    The only obvious reason why you are against it like this is that you want to keep it easier for yourself.
    This is understandable but nevertheless questionable if this can be a sufficient reason to keep the system as it is.

    I simply try to see it objectively even if I know also this is basically almost impossible for a human...
    And in this question, there is not only a right or wrong.
    I agree that the contradiction between 1-hour buffs and 5-hour buffs is something that needs to be removed because this is indeed objectively bad!
    But also, in my opinion, it is questionable if the best solution is to simply remove the old buffs, I think the benefit is tolerable enough to keep them and make them a part of the 5-hour-buff-system.
    But ideally, DDO needs an overhaul of the resistances against magical damage and this should be purely percentage based so it is not too powerful in low levels or against low damage in general but also not too weak against high damage.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  4. #184
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    You guys introduce a competing and unrelated crafting system about every other update. It's strange to hear you refer to this as being "the real problem" but I'm starting to see how this could be the case.
    I agree with you on two points, the introduction of new crafting systems every update is not really an ideal solution also in my opinion.
    And there is a contradiction between the logic to introduce dozens of new and different systems while you keep the old systems.
    This just inflates DDO and makes it way more complicated as it is needed and at the end, it lowers the quality of the game.

    But if A and B are wrong this is not a reason that A cannot be fixed if B remains unfixed (for now).
    The pseudo-logic that either A and B have to be fixed or none of both is only caused by the fact that you see the unfixed A as beneficial for yourself and you dont really care for a fix of B.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  5. #185
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    While it was probably a mistake to put them in, but now that they've been there for years they probably shouldn't just be removed.

    I'm sure someone had this idea already (haven't read the whole thread), but I'd say add resists scaling with the resist energy spell to the long lasting buffs you can collect all at once (1-6:10 resist 7-10:20 resist 11+:30 resist). That evens the playing field between classes in a game where soloing is much more common than when the original buffs were made. While I'm sure someone will be upset about missing out on the full resists before lvl11 it would be a pretty darn good trade for lasting longer and through death. And it would add very little real power creep since resist energy is such a common spell.

  6. #186
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    100% agreed. If I could agree more, I would, but words have meanings and 100% is all I am allowed to agree.
    For you there is only seemingly 100% or 0% anyway and nothing in between so you can also simply say you agree and please spare us the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niminae View Post
    There are also people who will pay far more into a gambling like system than they should. Those daily dice rolls are so compelling, someone might hurt themselves, deny their family needed income, etc. So I guess SSG should shut down because of these few outliers? This is where your chain of logic leads.
    So DDO has to be shut down when the gambling with Astral Shards is removed from the game?
    And of course, there is no other way than either shut down DDO or keep the gambling?
    This two questions should tell already everyone how wrong your pseudo-logic is.
    And it fits neatly to your 100% (all or nothing) statement before.
    Of course, you can remove the gambling completely and instead introduce another system that also generates revenue but without a random element.
    Not to mention that many MMOs are purely subscription funded and there are certainly ways to fund an MMO no one invented so far.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  7. #187
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    I have no interest in the opinions of anyone else who thinks I don't need hold energy resist buffs. I can tell the difference at low level, and I've got quite a few past lives including rangerx3/arcane epicx6. I don't want to use trash buffs/pots/wands that last a few minutes and cost resources and effort to keep track of, it isn't more fun and it's horrible that anyone who's ever considered the situation could think that they're a good answer. Makes me doubt the people spewing that trash are being honest. Gear, augs, pots, wands, wasting a spell slot/time/spell points, trash options when I first rolled my first character in 2012, still trash today. Make the game more convenient, not less. We already have spell damage well in excess of what feeble resist we can get together in reaper missions, so the argument that we need less resists to have more fun pretty much has to be coming from people who think anyone without a full group and triple all completionist should be stuck in casual mode where they belong.

    Sure, make the hold buffs last like new buffs and let me grab them from the amenity bar, but if they just disappear, that's a clear sign that SSG wants to make the game more tedious by destroying existing options, probably so they can sell more trash energy resist potions in the store. My buddy coughed up $100 because he wanted ship buffs, pretty petty to nerf your product so you can sell other stuff.

    You used to seem cool, Lyinbell, but I guess you've gone corporate now.

  8. #188
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    I can't help but wonder if part of the problem is that a lot of posters here don't realize what a big deal the cargo hold is to a low level guild. If you are in a maxed out ship, to you the cargo hold is likely just this place where you have an old system that needs constant maintenance and most of the buffs are things you never even bother to use.

    Things look very different in a low level guild. If your guild is below level 70 the biggest airship that you can buy with platinum, the Windspye Falcon, only has one state room and seven hold rooms. It forces you to make some very hard choices about which amenities from the new system to slot.

    However, in the cargo hold you also have room for two large amenities, six crew members, and eight small amenities. That means that by being smart about what you put in the cargo hold, you can actually recover a lot of the functionality you would't have room for otherwise. For example, on my ship close to half the buffs and all of the guild storage are in the cargo hold.

    Losing all that because some players think it's a pain in the butt to go to the ship once an hour or dislike having to renew the amenities every month, would be a real kick in the teeth. If you don't like the system....don't use it.

    Whether the resistance shrines are OP pre-level 11 is a different issue. If that is your beef, maybe suggest nerfing them instead of advocating for gutting the functionality of every low level guild airship purchased with platinum.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 05-12-2019 at 11:44 PM.

  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    I can't help but wonder if part of the problem is that a lot of posters here don't realize what a big deal the cargo hold is to a low level guild. If you are in a maxed out ship, to you the cargo hold is likely just this place where you have an old system that needs constant maintenance and most of the buffs are things you never even bother to use.

    Things look very different in a low level guild. If your guild is below level 70 the biggest airship that you can buy with platinum, the Windspye Falcon, only has one state room and seven hold rooms. It forces you to make some very hard choices about which amenities from the new system to slot.

    However, in the cargo hold you also have room for two large amenities, six crew members, and eight small amenities. That means that by being smart about what you put in the cargo hold, you can actually recover a lot of the functionality you would't have room for otherwise. For example, on my ship close to half the buffs and all of the guild storage are in the cargo hold.
    From the dev's point of view, your situation is probably the biggest problem. As a low level guild with an introductory ship, you are not supposed to have all those buffs. The fact that you can squeeze so many in thanks to a legacy system is clearly wrong.

    Instead of ripping out the cargo hold, though, any energy the devs spend on airships should instead go toward instituting a trade-in / upgrade system for airships. Right now, upgrading a ship means throwing away everything you spent on the previous ship, which is nuts.

    EDIT: Full disclosure, I haven't played DDO in a long time and I'm very unlikely to ever play it again, so take my input for what it's worth.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    From the dev's point of view, your situation is probably the biggest problem. As a low level guild with an introductory ship, you are not supposed to have all those buffs. The fact that you can squeeze so many in thanks to a legacy system is clearly wrong.

    Instead of ripping out the cargo hold, though, any energy the devs spend on airships should instead go toward instituting a trade-in / upgrade system for airships. Right now, upgrading a ship means throwing away everything you spent on the previous ship, which is nuts.

    EDIT: Full disclosure, I haven't played DDO in a long time and I'm very unlikely to ever play it again, so take my input for what it's worth.
    The falcon is not really an introductory ship, you need to be at least level 40 to use it. Also, a guild of any level can spend a **** ton of cash on shards and buy their way out of most restrictions, so the point is kind of moot.

    What the cargo hold does for us is let us stay in a small family guild, that takes ages to level, and not feel like we are missing out too much.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 05-13-2019 at 10:28 AM.

  11. #191
    Community Member Nyata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zites View Post
    The question is not whether you have to buff because you don't nor do you have to wait for anyone it whether or not they delete them than you don't have a choice. Get it?
    People are using casual players as a pretext to keep the buffs they have become strangely attached to. I am a casual player, and I do not like to be used as a pretext, especially if it's wrong. THAT was what I was replying to.

    As for choice: At the end of the day it is not my choice or your choice to make what buffs we end up with. And I believe that's a good thing. We might be able to influence game design choices, preferably by being reasonable and constructive and not by saying 'I wanna!'. At least I still hope that's the case, even though in the past 'I wanna!' has led to some really bad compromises.

    Again, I believe putting the 'service amenities' in an easily accessible area of ships permanently (i.e. Barkeep, mailbox, etc.) is a good thing. Integrating the legacy buffs in some form into the existing buff system is a very good thing. How exactly, to what degree and level gating - not my choice to make.

  12. #192
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The actual thought process of "ugh I died, now I gotta go run an errand before I can play DDO again" is objectively not fun.
    Then don't?

    You can leave the buffs in and just not do it... There are times when I don't bother to go get fresh buffs and I just work around it. There are times I do go get fresh buffs. I see no reason to take them out at this point.
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  13. #193
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    Please do this. I agree with you 100%. The cargo buffs are tedious. And the resists trivialize a lot of low-level content.
    Then don't use them?
    Should a reaper see me? I think Death itself should have to make a spot check when I'm rolling up behind him. -- Krimsonrane

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyata View Post
    People are using casual players as a pretext to keep the buffs they have become strangely attached to. I am a casual player, and I do not like to be used as a pretext, especially if it's wrong. THAT was what I was replying to..
    New flash your not the only casual player, in-fact I was never thinking of you at all, rather my new and casual friends that find ddo much harder than other games that consider them!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyata View Post
    As for choice: At the end of the day it is not my choice or your choice to make what buffs we end up with. And I believe that's a good thing. We might be able to influence game design choices, preferably by being reasonable and constructive and not by saying 'I wanna!'. At least I still hope that's the case, even though in the past 'I wanna!' has led to some really bad compromises.
    It is my choice to voice my opinion just as it is yours to say you wanna or you don't. I bet I can guess what compromises you are referring to LOL!!!

  15. #195
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    The situation with the Cargo Hold is a good example of plans that changed based on community want. Initially that entire Cargo Hold was meant to go away, along with all of those old ship buffs and the system underlying it (maintenance NPC, etc.) But, in part because of the powerful nature of those resistance buffs, there was a huge outcry, and it's been kept in. Even today we see people quite opposed to the idea of removing those buffs and the Cargo Hold. Realistically, I don't think it was ever the design intention to make the Cargo Hold the default gathering place on airships. Hard to say if there will ever be a time where this is addressed, but as others have elucidated, it's obviously not a priority.

    Oh, and as long as Lynnabel gets to remove something based on pet peeve (remember: this was all just casual weekend conversation) I vote for the old Guild Augment Slot NPCs in House Kundarak.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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  16. #196
    Hero Noir's Avatar
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    Default Yes they are OP

    Any player who has been playing the game as long as I have know the Greater Resist Shrine ( Elemental resist 30's) are indeed Op'd
    Are the convenient?? - YES.
    Do they trivialize low level content. Most assuredly they do.

    The best example of this I can come up with off hand is the second quest in the waterworks chain.
    Resist acid 30 allows you to completely ignore what one time was a very serious hazard in the quest.
    The acid tunnel. In the past that tunnel was serious business and you had to actually worry about turning off the valves as you progressed down it. With resist 30 acid you can now completely ignore the damage and run full speed (without evasion) right down the tunnel (both ways) without a care in the world ( on elite). Yes this is without a doubt OP in relation to what the designers of this quest intended when it was created. (Waterworks was required to be finished before you were even allowed access into the Marketplace.)

    In the past we treasured and utilized our resist element cloaks and I still have level 9 greater resist cloaks I collected back in the day.
    We did regular gear swaps to help curtail the damage and protection 60 potions were a thing at low levels.

    I still maintain all the greater resist shrines in my ship but if they disappeared I would certainly cope and adjust play to compensate for the new challenges not having the OP resists would bring back to the game. The resist 30's are just another "easy" button that players cling to and are reluctant to give up.

    I have always expected them to be removed based on what the DEVs stated when the new ships and amenities were introduced in the game.
    If they follow through with what they said it should come as no surprise to anyone.
    Last edited by Noir; 05-13-2019 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Grammer
    Originally Posted by grodon9999
    "I'm beginning to think a lot of people play this game because it's cheaper than paying for a Dominatrix."
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  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The situation with the Cargo Hold is a good example of plans that changed based on community want. Initially that entire Cargo Hold was meant to go away, along with all of those old ship buffs and the system underlying it (maintenance NPC, etc.) But, in part because of the powerful nature of those resistance buffs, there was a huge outcry, and it's been kept in. Even today we see people quite opposed to the idea of removing those buffs and the Cargo Hold. Realistically, I don't think it was ever the design intention to make the Cargo Hold the default gathering place on airships. Hard to say if there will ever be a time where this is addressed, but as others have elucidated, it's obviously not a priority.
    All I can say is thank goodness. Every time this topic comes up a folks come out of the woodwork to try and get the system removed it makes my blood boil. We don't all have maxed out guilds or are willing to $100 drop on an airship.

    If you don't like doing the maintenance or running back for the buffs...don't do it. When did we become such toddlers that we can't decide for ourselves whether an entirely optional system is fun and worth using or not?

    And if you think the resistance buffs are OP, then suggest ways that they could be brought in line. Don't pretend that the only solution to this minor issue is to completely remove the cargo hold system, and gut the functionality of every low level guild in the game.

    Ok, rant off. I'm done.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 05-13-2019 at 10:29 PM.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Then don't?

    You can leave the buffs in and just not do it... There are times when I don't bother to go get fresh buffs and I just work around it. There are times I do go get fresh buffs. I see no reason to take them out at this point.
    Saying people that could abuse the game using unintended systems can choose not to do so isn't a rational argument.
    The presence of those buffs causes strain on low level balance, which limits the amount of low level quests the devs can release.
    Much like players could choose not to dupe items, but the ones that DID ruined a few events for the community as a whole.

    Saying "then don't" didn't change the fact that some items got around a LOT faster than they should have, lowering their value to no end for the people that did it without duping.
    Saying "then don't" doesn't change the fact that average resists are MUCH higher at those levels than they should be, making the monsters deal more damage to compensate, which actually negatively impacts those that don't, making the buffs, and the run to the airship every death, almost mandatory.

  19. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xgya View Post
    making the buffs, and the run to the airship every death, almost mandatory.
    The only way to remove the tedious drudgery of rebuffing would also have to:

    1) Remove item wear (maybe keep it in-quest, but on leaving your gear heals the same way your character does)
    2) Automate vendoring/decon so that you can do it in any public place and with a single click

    Without addressing those two issues, many people will still be running to the ship every hour or so even without a cargo hold.

    Once my guild got a decked out ship, every hour I would return to repair all my stuff, decon all my loot, maybe a quick bio/smoke/drink refill, and then rebuff and head out. The "rebuff" part of that equation is way less tedious than deconning, that's for sure.

  20. #200
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post

    Oh, and as long as Lynnabel gets to remove something based on pet peeve (remember: this was all just casual weekend conversation) I vote for the old Guild Augment Slot NPCs in House Kundarak.
    IMO, those could just be moved to a corner of the Hall of Heroes; could be called "The Corner of Legacy". Also in this corner could go the box to exchange old CC loot for the new, the alter that currently lets us redeem old raid items for new ones, and a Stone of Change with a plague that explains old conversion recipes.
    That's not lag, it's just DDO trying to become turn-based again.

    Feature wishlist: colour-coded HP bars; red/blue teams in raids; rez-timer in party menu; equip-able halflings

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