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  1. #1
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Default U.S. Legislation To Ban Loot Boxes And Pay-To-Win Microtransactions

    https://kotaku.com/u-s-senator-intro...ium=Socialflow

    If passed this likely will not affect DDO much as it stands now, but you can bet this will open the door for future, even more restrictive legislation which might.

  2. #2
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Good.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

    .57175.

  3. #3
    Community Member Eryhn's Avatar
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    indeed.

  4. #4

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    good news! If it passes, it might break the mobile gaming moneymakers and then the players will wander over here...ok long shot but hey
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  5. #5
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Lol just reading the first few lines says its just to protect minors.

  6. #6
    Community Member Kenpai's Avatar
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    Gee, if only there was SOME WAY for people to have control over their own money... some kind of... CONSCIOUS DECISION that they could make to NOT THROW HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THEY CAN'T AFFORD AT VIDEO GAMES...

    Hmm, nope, thinking is too hard for them, gotta cry to Big Brother to take away the """"""""evil"""""""" fun and ruin it for everyone.
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  7. #7
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    Minors need hard hats, not loot crates.

  8. #8
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    Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for lootboxes. It's a really lazy and unprincipled way to make money.

    The personal responsibility argument might sound fine superficially but it doesn't do anything for people with impaired judgement like children, the mentally deficient and people with gambling problems. Loot box sales thrive in environments where little to no customer screening is done because it preys upon the susceptible.

    Another issue is these companies don't provide enough information for us to make informed decisions about the value of the box. The odds of getting something good from it can be changed at any time and without notice and the value of items from the boxes can be reduced immediately by new offerings. It's an unfair game and arguing for the rights of companies to screw their customers like this just seems like madness to me.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 05-08-2019 at 08:24 PM.

  9. #9
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    Stuff like this has been coming ever since the WHO recognized Video Game Addiction as a psychiatric disorder in the DSM-5 last summer.

    More laws are definitely going to come. Some will be reasonable, some won't. Some people just really hate and demonize the existence of video games, some people just like to use them as a convenient scapegoat to distract from other things.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post
    Lol just reading the first few lines says its just to protect minors.
    That is the language necessary to pass it
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  11. #11
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    That is the language necessary to pass it
    Yea but its to broad atm it won't pass anyways.
    Last edited by Yamani; 05-08-2019 at 08:53 PM.

  12. #12
    Community Member DaviMOC's Avatar
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    Loot boxes just makes games worse. You can choose to not use those boxes but in the end, game desing and game mechanics gravitates toward its business model making the whole experience worse to everyone(even those who dont use it). Considering how lucrative is the mobile market to the point that big companies are redirecting its resources to mobile or converting desktop and consoles games to mobile business models I really hope it finds some end. But regulation can be dangerous as it tends to take the wrong turn and be used to not so wanted purposes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    https://kotaku.com/u-s-senator-intro...ium=Socialflow

    If passed this likely will not affect DDO much as it stands now, but you can bet this will open the door for future, even more restrictive legislation which might.
    I am a big fan of the idea of banning loot crates. Spending money on RNG-based rewards has always been ridiculous in my mind. With a pack of cards you get something physical, but in video games a lot of the time you're spending money on things you want and instead get basically nothing for it. It's essentially the lottery.

    My problem comes from the website of the senator who is proposing the bill:

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Hawley
    Pay to win: Pay-to-win games take two forms. In some cases, designers engineer games with artificial difficulty curves to induce players to spend money on upgrades simply to progress. These games are often offered for free, enticing players to download and even offering them a false sense of progression upon initial download before artificially increasing difficulty to induce compulsive purchases. In other cases, designers create multiplayer games offering players who purchase paid upgrades competitive advantages over other players.
    The last sentence I certainly agree with, but the first part is definitely describing DDO. If the bill itself has this sort of description in it and passes, we can say goodbye to earning DDO points from favor.
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  14. #14
    Founder & Hero cdbd3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hipparan View Post
    I am a big fan of the idea of banning loot crates. Spending money on RNG-based rewards has always been ridiculous in my mind. With a pack of cards you get something physical, but in video games a lot of the time you're spending money on things you want and instead get basically nothing for it. It's essentially the lottery.

    My problem comes from the website of the senator who is proposing the bill:



    The last sentence I certainly agree with, but the first part is definitely describing DDO. If the bill itself has this sort of description in it and passes, we can say goodbye to earning DDO points from favor.

    As a Mizzerian, I can attest that Josh Hawley is a Snake of capitalized proportions.

    Some comparisons that point out how ridiculous trying to legislate this kind of thing...

    CCG's = buying packs of cardboard with some printing on them, that in most cases will duplicate a handful of cards you already have, basically meaning you just bought 'nothing'. You buy MORE packs hoping to get one of those special few cards that have printing that says you're uber powerful if you have it. Those companies have no requirement to say what's in the packs, and can change those contents on a whim without notice. (this sounds familiar)

    Changing venues...

    True Dungeon, a very popular Gen Con (amongst other cons) staple. The treasure there consists of Tokens. (equipment, magic, etc) There, as well, are tokens of varying rarity right up to the rarest Ultra Rares. TD base company sells packs of these tokens, and bumps the incentive of those purchases with increased chances to obtain rarer tokens. TD runs are paid for, but if you pay extra for these special tokens, you're moar uberer. (Kinda the same thing, no?)

    Really getting carried away now...

    How about chest rerolls we have now. Another chance at that chest loot you want, as long as ya pay to 'reopen' that same chest. No guarantees of anything popping in the chest, nothing saying what CAN pop in that chest or if it's changed since the last time you were in that quest. Or heck, those of us that pay a sub to even run that quest open the chest the first time without knowing what is in it. Are we not "paying" to open that random box of stuff?


    Anyway...

    TL;DR:
    Agree or disagree with Loot boxes or whatever, letting the government stick it's nasty lil fingers into the mix will NOT end well for any of us.
    Last edited by cdbd3rd; 05-09-2019 at 08:09 AM. Reason: spellin stuff
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  15. #15
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenpai View Post
    Gee, if only there was SOME WAY for people to have control over their own money... some kind of... CONSCIOUS DECISION that they could make to NOT THROW HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS THEY CAN'T AFFORD AT VIDEO GAMES...

    Hmm, nope, thinking is too hard for them, gotta cry to Big Brother to take away the """"""""evil"""""""" fun and ruin it for everyone.
    I think it's good for people to be responsible with their own money. I also think it's good for companies to have someone tell them that they can't put in addictive things in their products in order to get customers hooked on skinner boxes/drugs/whatever and wreck their lives. And at least some companies are going to be sketchy enough to do it, so making a law that curbs the worst of the abuses isn't a bad thing.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Pay to win: Pay-to-win games take two forms. In some cases, designers engineer games with artificial difficulty curves to induce players to spend money on upgrades simply to progress. These games are often offered for free, enticing players to download and even offering them a false sense of progression upon initial download before artificially increasing difficulty to induce compulsive purchases. In other cases, designers create multiplayer games offering players who purchase paid upgrades competitive advantages over other players.
    Reaper fits that description.

    Some lawyer will have a field day and iterate that no one is forcing players to play that setting, but it still falls under artificial difficulty curves, while having its own progression system "as enticement or incentive."

  17. #17
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hipparan View Post
    The last sentence I certainly agree with, but the first part is definitely describing DDO. If the bill itself has this sort of description in it and passes, we can say goodbye to earning DDO points from favor.
    I agree. Thats the "false sense of progression" they are referring to. When we discussed this issue in the past people claimed the fact that it can "be earned in game" made it fine, but many of these laws in other countries (which the US is trying to parallel here) dont buy into that. When something is addictive, handing out the first bit free is what keeps people coming back for more.

  18. #18
    Community Member GrannyNooblet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdbd3rd View Post

    Anyway...

    TL;DR:
    Agree or disagree with Loot boxes or whatever, letting the government stick it's nasty lil fingers into the mix will NOT end well for any of us.
    This. We've been on a very slippery slope for a long time now and it's depressing to look ahead and see where it's going. I'm always reminded of a book called This Perfect Day, written by Ira Levin (the guy who wrote Stepford Wives and Rosemary's Baby).
    Button up, Jafar! Learn to have some fun! (the Sultan to Jafar in Aladdin)

  19. #19
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    Wow I hope this passes!

    To be fair, DDO should have been disclosing odds all along. Having it a legal requirement in the US would help them do what's right.

    Hopefully DDO has this in the works, since it's already law in China, and somebody could report them to the Ministry of Culture at any time. (https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/2/15...oot-box-random )

    Sad that it takes legal action to get companies to do what's right and fair, but at least there is hope that the laws will protect us soon.

    Also, how is this considered not of primary relevance to DDO? DDO does market to minors, though not exclusively or even predominantly, but this law does cover that. And chest re-rolls and daily dice rolls are purchased with shards, which are purchased with points, which are purchased with real world money, a direct chain from currency to competitive advantage.
    I am profoundly disappointed with the current state and direction of DDO, and my purchasing habits reflect this. A drastic improvement in quality of life, transparency, and honest communication would improve my spending. Promises and "more squeeze" will not.

  20. #20
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucidLTS View Post
    Wow I hope this passes!

    To be fair, DDO should have been disclosing odds all along. Having it a legal requirement in the US would help them do what's right.

    Hopefully DDO has this in the works, since it's already law in China, and somebody could report them to the Ministry of Culture at any time. (https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/2/15...oot-box-random )

    Sad that it takes legal action to get companies to do what's right and fair, but at least there is hope that the laws will protect us soon.

    Also, how is this considered not of primary relevance to DDO? DDO does market to minors, though not exclusively or even predominantly, but this law does cover that. And chest re-rolls and daily dice rolls are purchased with shards, which are purchased with points, which are purchased with real world money, a direct chain from currency to competitive advantage.
    Where has ddo not disclosed the odds of chance of loot? Chests have been disclosed openly in a forum post awhile back, daily dice its right their as you hit the roll button, and collectables crates are based on the tier they represent.

    As for competitive advantage, where does that even exist in ddo besides players ego's.

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