Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    629

    Default Maximum Dodge Cap is incorrectly calculated.

    My build uses Heavy Armor with a Maximum Dexterity Bonus of 11 and a Tower Shield with a Maximum Dexterity Bonus of 5 due to enhancements. The Dexterity Bonus is 13. From what I can tell it appears that dodge cap is incorrectly capped by maximum dexterity bonus.

    In addition the following Grim Barricade reaper enhancements are not increasing Maximum Dodge cap in reaper mode.
    Reaper's Defense VI
    Reaper's Heightened Evasion
    Reaper's Heightened Evasion

    The calculation should be based on the following algorithm for a given character.

    Let DexBonus = The character's dexterity bonus.
    Let ArmorDodgeCap = The maximum dexterity bonus of a character's Armor.
    Let ShieldDodgeCap = The maximum deterity bonus of a character's Shield.
    Let BaseDodgeCap = The minimum of DexBonus, ArmorDodgeCap, and ShieldDodgeCap.
    Let AdditionalDodgeCap = The sum of the character's stacking enhancements, feats, filigrees and items which increase their maximum Dodge Cap for a given instance difficulty.

    The character's true Dodge Cap in a given instance difficulty should be BaseDodgeCap + AdditionalDodgeCap.

  2. #2
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    From what I can tell it appears that dodge cap is incorrectly capped by maximum dexterity bonus
    Actually, no. It is calculated correctly according to how SSG have desgined Dodge to work at this time.

    It works by comparing the lower of Max Dodge Cap and Maximum Dexterity Bonus, and taking the lower one and work from there.

    Any further increase in the functional Dodge Cap needs an identical increase on Maximum Dexterity Bonus, otherwise the rule above will limit it to the lower of the two anyway.

    So if you have a Dodge Cap of 31, with a Dodge Bonus of 31, and a Max Dex Bonus of 7, then it will remain at 7 Dodge (and functional Dodge Cap of 7) until you increase the Max Dex Bonus further. So if you increase Max Dex Bonus by +3, then you will now have Dodge Cap of 31, Dodge Bonus of 31, and a Max Dex Bonus of 10, which gives you a 10 Dodge (and a funcational Dodge Cap of 10).

    Unless you are requesting a change to this instead?

    J1NG
    Last edited by J1NG; 05-01-2019 at 09:18 AM. Reason: spelling
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  3. #3
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    629

    Default

    No I view this as a bug. There is a maximum dodge value without any type of additional cap increase. If an effect says increases dodge cap without additional explanation then it should so just that. Since there is no further stipulation on this in game it's a bug since the example I presented should have a max dodge bonus of 8 not 5. There's no information in the ingame descriptions to support your claim.

    Bottom line here the documentation or the calculation is incorrect and someone from SSG will need to evaluate and prioritize this. There's no point in the community arguing further about it.

  4. #4
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    No I view this as a bug. There is a maximum dodge value without any type of additional cap increase. If an effect says increases dodge cap without additional explanation then it should so just that. Since there is no further stipulation on this in game it's a bug since the example I presented should have a max dodge bonus of 8 not 5. There's no information in the ingame descriptions to support your claim.

    Bottom line here the documentation or the calculation is incorrect and someone from SSG will need to evaluate and prioritize this. There's no point in the community arguing further about it.
    Then it's a bug in the description or maybe just a bad description (this is just as likely as what you're saying, without a statement from the devs).

    Rules lawyering in a computer game where there is a algorithm that computes these things makes it just as easy to say the text is wrong (or incomplete in this instance) and the algorithm is right, unlike PnP where you get to rationally try to talk to the DM. Furthermore DDO has precedent of not spelling out how algorithms work in descriptions so they can counter with everything is WAI and working fine.

    Good luck.

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    No I view this as a bug. There is a maximum dodge value without any type of additional cap increase. If an effect says increases dodge cap without additional explanation then it should so just that. Since there is no further stipulation on this in game it's a bug since the example I presented should have a max dodge bonus of 8 not 5. There's no information in the ingame descriptions to support your claim.

    Bottom line here the documentation or the calculation is incorrect and someone from SSG will need to evaluate and prioritize this. There's no point in the community arguing further about it.
    The descriptions could definitely be clearer, and the character sheet could make the calculation explicit (e.g. some text when you hover over wherever it displays dodge) and there are places where the terminology isn't consistent and that's sloppy (there are some things that say they increase "max dodge" when they should say "dodge cap", as max dodge is a calculated value as the minimum of dodge cap and max dex bonus).

    I know they're confusingly similar terms and you have to find a description on the wiki if you want to know how it works, but max dodge does not equal dodge cap. Anything that does say dodge cap is correctly labeled. The system itself is WAI and reasonably balanced where to be super dodgy you have to work to increase 2 things if unarmored, or 3 things with some armor.
    Nistafa on Khyber

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    716

    Default

    You're right, the description could be a tad better.

    Dodge Cap is your character overall maximum dodge.

    Max Dex is assigned to your character by its equipment. Your effective dodge cannot go above that number. It's not your dodge cap - it's your max Dex. Do note that that Max Dex can also suddenly drop by your character losing Strength, or looting something too heavy, and becoming encumbered.

    Here's the wiki's relevant page:
    https://ddowiki.com/page/Dodge_bonus..._maximum_dodge

    Your effective dodge cannot go above your Max Dex Bonus.
    Your effective dodge cannot go above your Dodge Cap.

    The enhancements you took increase the Dodge Cap without increasing Max Dex Bonus. Hence, your current situation.

    The game could do better to clarify how Dodge works, but that's what release notes and the Wiki are for - the mechanic itself is seldom explained ANYWHERE.

  7. #7
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Suffice it to say, it is WAI.

    Just descriptions need to be better (if that is possible, as it's a fairly length description and explanation even in wiki terms). So that's what I'm going to put down for a change (if and) when it is suitable to do so.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload