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  1. #1
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    Default Is there anything particularly good that can be obtained via thunder forge crafting?

    ML 24 thunderforged weapons are pretty useful I guess. But I still see people desperate to get phlogiston, which IIRC is only used for the ML 28 upgrades.

    I took a look at the upgrade list, but I dont see any reason to get the ML 26+ versions. At ML 26, a basic tier 2 LGS weapon blows the ML 26 one out of the water for most uses and can be obtained with a fraction of the effort. Unless you really, really want to make a ml 26 weapon just for killing undead with the armor piercing upgrade I guess.

    The ML 28 versions seem to have mostly gimmicky effects...elemental damage on vorpal, elemental damage clickies, etc....cant see them competing with any ML 28 weapons at all really. Dont get why anyone would want phlogiston for these given that you have ML 28/29 Ravenloft gear with way better stats.

    And the armor is a joke compared to the ML 27 ones you can get from leg tempest/hound.

    Am I missing something here?

  2. #2
    Community Member Loromir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    ML 24 thunderforged weapons are pretty useful I guess. But I still see people desperate to get phlogiston, which IIRC is only used for the ML 28 upgrades.

    I took a look at the upgrade list, but I dont see any reason to get the ML 26+ versions. At ML 26, a basic tier 2 LGS weapon blows the ML 26 one out of the water for most uses and can be obtained with a fraction of the effort. Unless you really, really want to make a ml 26 weapon just for killing undead with the armor piercing upgrade I guess.

    The ML 28 versions seem to have mostly gimmicky effects...elemental damage on vorpal, elemental damage clickies, etc....cant see them competing with any ML 28 weapons at all really. Dont get why anyone would want phlogiston for these given that you have ML 28/29 Ravenloft gear with way better stats.

    And the armor is a joke compared to the ML 27 ones you can get from leg tempest/hound.

    Am I missing something here?
    Nope...you're not missing anything. Just keep the level 24 versions to fill in those mid level epics.
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    Opening up the casual difficulty for raids would have been a much better solution. Since all the whiners are just complaining about not being able to play through the content they paid for. Just give them their casual difficulty. Since they are just a bunch of casuals.


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  3. #3
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    My understanding:
    - lvl 22 solid blanks, cheap and good, for example for recent Inquisitive action
    - lvl 24 vulnerability
    - lvl 26 armor-piercing if you can buy duped mats from AH
    - lvl 28 swap for Draconic Reinvigoration (requires raiding)

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    As with any of the systems of crafting in DDO YMMV.

    If you are looking at gear/weapons as a "must be an all inclusive" package then sure you will be able to point out others that perform better in "Situation X". Thunderforge weapons and armor are niche items. They have there place where they perform Well, good and poorly.

    If you approach gearing in the "golf bag" style, these items can be crafted in such a way to fill in a hole to your present choices of gear. Be it a boost in DCs/Spell Pen for a specific instance such as being able to boost Transmutation spells for a specific purpose, to handling a specific DR, or other situation. It amuses me that while people are willing to switch their weapons for a specific task they are not willing to switch their armor. Sure it takes longer, not something you can do in combat, but there are times you can prep to be better set for the situation at hand if you take the time instead of charging headlong into the fray.

    Additionally, with the changes to raids that bring runes for trading, it has become even easier to earn the needed materials (Even more so for those of us that play multiple characters and enjoy leading and teaching raids)

    @cru121 - Not everyone with 26+ items dup'd or bought dup'd ingredients. There are still those that simply ran these over time and earned each one via playing

  5. #5
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    lvl 24 vulnerability
    - lvl 26 armor-piercing if you can buy duped mats from AH
    I don't understand why you are recommending vulnerability and armor piercing. Sure these are nice stats to have for end game play... But there are so many better weapons that you should be using rather than thunderforged.

    I use my thunderforged just for leveling purposes, so I would get the on hit extra fire damage for tier 1, and for tier 2 the fire aoe. As AOE damage is what matters for leveling speed, not single target.

    Further more, most things when leveling up wont last long enough for the vulnerability to really matter... Or they shouldnt last long enough for it to really matter in comparison to other effects.
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  6. #6
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    Only source of shadow phase clickies, quick swap improved invis for robe/docent/outfit. Not horribly convenient for armor tho due to swap time but it can be useful sometimes.

  7. #7
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    ML 24 thunderforged weapons are pretty useful I guess. But I still see people desperate to get phlogiston, which IIRC is only used for the ML 28 upgrades.
    Although Mortal Fear was nuked into orbit by the development team, it is still insanely useful for farming lower Epic's (which I have seen those lucky enough to have such gear do). But its usefulness is so limited that I've noticed more recently that players leave those weapons in their TR cache for nostalgia only.

    I took a look at the upgrade list, but I dont see any reason to get the ML 26+ versions. At ML 26, a basic tier 2 LGS weapon blows the ML 26 one out of the water for most uses and can be obtained with a fraction of the effort. Unless you really, really want to make a ml 26 weapon just for killing undead with the armor piercing upgrade I guess.
    Caster Weapons were the only thing I can remember that held up to the ravages of Power Creep. Otherwise Vulnerable on 3rd Degree Burns is the only saving grace of melee lvl 26 weapons. Build stacks and switch weapons sets. Repeat as needed.

    The ML 28 versions seem to have mostly gimmicky effects...elemental damage on vorpal, elemental damage clickies, etc....cant see them competing with any ML 28 weapons at all really. Dont get why anyone would want phlogiston for these given that you have ML 28/29 Ravenloft gear with way better stats.
    Mortal Fear, but that was discussed above. Nothing else was ever used by melee/range as it was <censored> from day one.

    And the armor is a joke compared to the ML 27 ones you can get from leg tempest/hound.
    TF > Tempest/Hound for a long while. It was only with more recent gear introduction and them actually lowering the level of some of the raid gear did it lose its sheen.

    Am I missing something here?
    How power creep, nerfing, and "balance" have made the gear less valuable.

    In all honesty, the gear development from 20 to 30 needs to be dealt with. If the plan is to make Sharn gear with +22 stat bonus, it completely ruins large swaths of the game and work from previous developers.
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    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    Am I missing something here?
    TF can be feed to sentient gem, possible it's best use currently. 8)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by banjo174 View Post
    I don't understand why you are recommending vulnerability and armor piercing. Sure these are nice stats to have for end game play... But there are so many better weapons that you should be using rather than thunderforged.

    I use my thunderforged just for leveling purposes, so I would get the on hit extra fire damage for tier 1, and for tier 2 the fire aoe. As AOE damage is what matters for leveling speed, not single target.

    Further more, most things when leveling up wont last long enough for the vulnerability to really matter... Or they shouldnt last long enough for it to really matter in comparison to other effects.
    - I am not recommending anything. It's just what I use.
    - I value Vulnerability more than 17 extra fire damage. Even while leveling.
    - I just like armor-piercing. Also, it comes with extra bleeding damage on crit. Fire damage has a save and it is the most commonly resisted element.
    - Also, if you're killing stuff too fast, there's always the option to add a skull or three while leveling so that you have a chance to benefit from vulnerability. Unless you're already leveling at 10 skulls, in that case, congratulations.

  10. #10
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    Thunderforged stuff is also easy to get, along with the Barovian ones for lvl29.

    The materials often come up in the AH, the comms are obtained by just doing quests.

    As someone who doesn't raid, I find them pretty useful as there is no real grind in getting the things.
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  11. #11
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    Shadowdragon armor is the only place you can get a profane bonus to caster DC, if you want the absolute max numbers you have to wear it.
    Last edited by Mandelia; 04-25-2019 at 07:57 AM.

  12. #12
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    Sentient xp
    Heroic - Triple All
    Racial - Triple All
    Iconic - Triple All
    Epic - Triple All

  13. #13
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Easy to get boss beater for mid level epics. /shrug.

  14. #14
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    TF are good for weapon types that don't have any real support currently.

    Nice and easy to craft up a blank level 22 crossbow, and upgrade it as you go for your inquisitive which otherwise has very few options.


    Plus with a Good augment thunderforged makes a very good near-universal DR breaker (all metal types + good is 95% of DR in ddo)

  15. #15
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    Newb still on my first life... as a GxB wielding Mechanic, TF GxB was absolutely my best option at L22 and through mid-epics, just as heroic Divine Artillery was fading in effectiveness. I put Blinding on it for Tier 1 after seeing much debate over its effectiveness on this forum, and I was very happy with the results. It procs on the first shot almost every time, though only once every 12 sec does limit its usefulness somewhat in high mob count encounters. It was finally replaced by a Morninglord's GxB, but even now I still miss that Blinding first shot.

    As far as mats, I only ever went to ML24 so can only speak about ingots, but they are NOT often up for sale in the AH, at least on Cannith. I looked on the AH (plat and AS) every day for many months. I'd say over the past four months, I've seen a total of two batches of ingots for sale. It's possible I missed some that sold quickly, but I would not count on being able to buy them on the AH. I had to grind out all of mine from rares in Thunderholme, which was quite a challenge at first as I was soloing it at Level 22 on my first life, before I learned to throw up an LFM.

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  16. #16
    Community Member Shadow_Jumper's Avatar
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    Casters: Shadow Dragon Armor is still BiS (doesn't require raiding), and may still be even after Sharn, the jury is still out.
    DPS: Draconic Reinvigeration. If SWF a DI orb is probably BiS, other DPS builds generally keep on around for certain instances when they find themselves running low on ABs
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  17. #17
    Community Member Tricosene's Avatar
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    The base weapons are easy to get and cheap, and instead of hoarding them and using up valuable bank space, you can feed them to a sentient gem when you've moved on to something better.

    So, if you don't have a good level 22 weapon (or even a good level 24 weapon), or you feel you need a metalline type item for those levels, Thunderforged is a good option.

    For example, in my last life I didn't have an effective bastard sword for level 22. I made a thunder forged weapon, dropped a good ruby into it, and used it for a couple of levels. Even better, once I no longer needed it, I fed it to a sentient gem, so I got a bit of sentient experience and the weapon wasn't taking up bank space.
    Last edited by Tricosene; 04-25-2019 at 04:49 PM.

  18. #18
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    Thunderforged weapons aren't nearly as amazing as they were when they first came out, but they still have their uses. Dragon's Edge, Crippling Flames, and Burning Emptiness all do on crit damage which certain crit-heavy builds can really make use of. And sure, you're never going to hit 20 stacks of vulnerability on trash mobs, but raid bosses measure their HP in the millions in recent raids. A damage boost for the entire party outweighs any single weapon enchantment that could replace it. Slot a good augment or twist blessed blades and you can beat the most common damage reduction on mobs. I also run haunted halls quite a bit and greater dragon bane + fire AoE works wonders on the dragon boss.

  19. #19
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    Im referring specifically to the ML 26+ stuff, mainly the ML 28 ones. In particular, I dont get why people want the phlogistons so much...they are only used for the ML 28 weapon upgrades I believe, but they arent very good.

    Draconic reinvigoration isnt that good. Yea, you can regenerate action boosts, cool. But you are losing so much DPS from not using a real end game weapon that its not a net gain. Especially as newer end game weapons have expanded weapon dice.

    The ML 28 caster armor gets a +1 profane DC to spell DCs...cool, but that means losing out on the +2 artifact bonus to spell DCs from the beacon of magic set.

    The problem with thunder forged vulnerability is that first degree burns only applies once every 2 seconds, so it takes forever to get enough stacks to matter. 3rd degree burns only applies on vorpal, which is meh. And at ML 28, there are raid weapons that can apply max vul stacks in a few seconds.

    And most people dont sell thunder forged mats...they just hoard them. Like, right now there are no shadow dragon scales on the Cannith ASAH, not a surprise given how unpopular the raid is (hey guys, lets design a raid that takes 40+ mins to complete for most parties and make it give the exact same amount of threads as the 10 minute FOTP raid!). Nor are there any ingots at all.
    Last edited by Question2005; 04-25-2019 at 05:33 PM.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Question2005 View Post
    ...
    Draconic reinvigoration isnt that good. Yea, you can regenerate action boosts, cool. But you are losing so much DPS from not using a real end game weapon that its not a net gain. Especially as newer end game weapons have expanded weapon dice.

    ...
    This statement right here seems to indicate you don't have a full grasp on the DPS that Action Boosts provide.

    Sure if all you run is the 'dailies', short quests and quests with more shrines then you can shake a stick at, then regen of action boost will be meh. But if you run more quests where resources are a valuable commodity then these will come in handy as you crawl your way to a shrine or to the exit of a quest.

    Sure one could argue there is no hurry to get such an item and to that I would agree, but I would also point out that for those that do run these raids it is easier to get the mats with the new rune system then it has been. Again, the 'golf bag' approach. You can play the game of golf with a putter and a 7 Iron, but having options more appropriate can give you an advantage.

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