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  1. #1
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    Default Only Reaper 1 and how to solve it

    I would limit what is accessible by Tiers to associated Reaper difficulty.
    Run R1 and only Tier 1 unlocks tiers 2+ require you to up reaper difficulty to 2+ skulls.
    Cores still fully apply , only tiers are limited by skull choice.
    This way the points don't matter as much since to benefit from the higher tiers you need to run higher Skull difficulty.
    Limits the accessing full reaper points on R1 difficulty and giving full power access at lowest entry difficulty.
    Last edited by Whisper1; 04-19-2019 at 02:14 PM.

  2. #2
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    That's no good because it literally separates the haves from the have nots as a best case scenario, having little to no impact on high reaper players and making reaper much harder to break into for newer players who will see no benefit for ages of grinding. It also takes away the reward people put time and money into earning, not a good idea for a company that sells grinds.

  3. #3
    Community Member awar1234's Avatar
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    Or what if they just remove the reaper trees altogether....

    The trees were never asked for or neeeded????

  4. #4
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awar1234 View Post
    Or what if they just remove the reaper trees altogether....

    The trees were never asked for or neeeded????
    Don't you touch my power creep! POWER CREEP NOM NOM NOM
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by awar1234 View Post
    Or what if they just remove the reaper trees altogether....

    The trees were never asked for or neeeded????
    I never wanted those trees, but now that they're there and people have already spent time, effort, and potentially money to get them up, I'd be against removing them. It'd be just as unfair as the system currently is to newer players.

    Kinda like it'd be unfair to remove all TR benefits. One GOOD thing about Reaper trees is they're concurrent with TR benefits, meaning people can earn both at once. I once suggested the same should happen with racial and class TRs to help bridge the gap in that direction too.

    Any system that brings powercreep should at least have that option. This is the case for Reaper/TR/Gear.

  6. #6
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Leave it as is, this only affects leveling up, which is fine. It still takes about 20-25 points before it becomes globally easier than elites, and raids are still harder on r1 for most players compared to elite. The ubers with 80+ points should be able to enjoy their points, the rest who struggles to keep up dont need another hardwall for progress, DDO is all about progress walls.

  7. #7
    Community Member Hawkwier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awar1234 View Post
    Or what if they just remove the reaper trees altogether....

    The trees were never asked for or neeeded????
    This.

    I argued reaper challenge should have been it's own reward before they introduced it.

    I enjoy great benefits from the reaper trees, but I'd gladly take one for the team if the trees were removed.

    Sadly I do think that ship has sailed now. But I'd be perfectly OK if they took them away entirely.

  8. #8
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awar1234 View Post
    Or what if they just remove the reaper trees altogether....
    or just remove Normal / Hard / Elite...Reaper is the new Normal.
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    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Leave it as is, this only affects leveling up, which is fine. It still takes about 20-25 points before it becomes globally easier than elites, and raids are still harder on r1 for most players compared to elite. The ubers with 80+ points should be able to enjoy their points, the rest who struggles to keep up dont need another hardwall for progress, DDO is all about progress walls.
    It should not be easier than Elite, even with full reaper trees unlocked.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by acemonkey View Post
    That's no good because it literally separates the haves from the have nots as a best case scenario, having little to no impact on high reaper players and making reaper much harder to break into for newer players who will see no benefit for ages of grinding. It also takes away the reward people put time and money into earning, not a good idea for a company that sells grinds.
    New players have few reaper points so it wont change anything for them.
    % less bonus from few points is few.

    As i wrote in my post "they have few reaper points so % change in benefit for them is little of importance to them".

  11. #11
    Community Member noinfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awar1234 View Post
    Or what if they just remove the reaper trees altogether....

    The trees were never asked for or neeeded????
    Same with TR and RTR get rid of all of it.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whisper1 View Post
    Most of time reaper difficulty is done in heroics is on Reaper 1. Most of time same is true for epic difficulty. Players with many (50+) reaper points join and for them this difficulty is easier than doing Epic elite. Reaper, even reaper 1, should be more difficult than elite.

    So i propose this changes:

    Benefits from reaper points scale with reaper difficulty. For example: you got 1000 hp from reaper enchancement tree. In reaper 1 they are scaled to 100 (10% from 1000), in reaper 5 scaled to 500 (50% from 1000) and in reaper 10 they get full benefit (100% of 1000 hp). This will both encourage to play at higher reaper difficulty and stops making reaper 1 easier than elite difficulty for anyone who got some reaper points already. Also this wont make it harder for new players, who are just learning reaper and therefore play on reaper 1 (they have few reaper points so % change in benefit fromt hem is little of importance to them).
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alled78 View Post
    You are playing from 20 days...

    U already reached vl 30?

    Stop asking nerf, use your true account
    Bye
    I play for 3 months, i didnt register untill some days ago on forum.

    And i see how powerful Reaper is atm. Past life of Barbarian? Extra 10 hp. 1 (one) reaper point in right tree =+18 (10+8) hp. And those people will many reaper points play on Reaper 1 most of time, because its easier for them than Elite.

  14. #14
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whisper1 View Post
    Most of time reaper difficulty is done in heroics is on Reaper 1. Most of time same is true for epic difficulty. Players with many (50+) reaper points join and for them this difficulty is easier than doing Epic elite. Reaper, even reaper 1, should be more difficult than elite.

    So i propose this changes:

    Benefits from reaper points scale with reaper difficulty. For example: you got 1000 hp from reaper enchancement tree. In reaper 1 they are scaled to 100 (10% from 1000), in reaper 5 scaled to 500 (50% from 1000) and in reaper 10 they get full benefit (100% of 1000 hp). This will both encourage to play at higher reaper difficulty and stops making reaper 1 easier than elite difficulty for anyone who got some reaper points already. Also this wont make it harder for new players, who are just learning reaper and therefore play on reaper 1 (they have few reaper points so % change in benefit fromt hem is little of importance to them).
    As often you are not completely wrong but the question is how right you are and if there is a need to act and how.
    The problem behind it is out of my sight a fundamental contradiction in basically any game where you achieve progression in the form of more power while you play.
    The reward for playing (or even worse paying) DDO is more character power and this is not only reaper experience it is also better items etc.
    This means you play the game and it gets basically easier and easier for you with the result that it gets less challenging.
    This means the game gets basically less and less fun the more you play if you want a challenging game.

    Now back to your suggestion, if you think your suggestion consequently further this means that it basically applies to any character progression and therefore also benefits for better equipment and past lives etc. need to be scale down in the same way.
    If your character is equipped for the elite difficulty he gets a penalty in normal etc.
    And at this point, you should see how questionable your suggestion is.

    The solution for this fundamental contradiction I described before is in DDO and many other games the availability of higher difficulties.
    And as a side note, the ability to play a higher difficulty is of course not only a question of your character power in DDO, also knowledge and skill of the player are important.
    The player earned the improved character power with playing in DDO and the question is would you seriously like to change this?
    And then the question is for what would you like to play DDO, for cosmetic items or medals of honor or something?
    Therefore you should not try to take the freedom away to play the difficulty of your choice even if your character is objectively too strong for the chosen difficulty.
    Of course, the game should make the most challenging way in a game also most rewarding so players who are able to play higher difficulty are animated to play a difficulty that is challenging for them.


    A newer player might feel disadvantaged because he plays together with veterans and they have big benefits from there past lives rxp etc. and they are right, they are disadvantaged.
    But the question is how to deal with this problem?
    Remember DDO is a Player versus Environment game and not a Player versus Player game.
    I recently heard a rumor of a party leader who made a group member leave his party because he got a higher kill count than him...
    Should one not be happy if one's party member is stronger than he is, so he can get the task done faster?
    And after all, almost everyone has to deal with the problem that someone e.g. runs 100 meters faster than him besides of one person and this is the world record holder on this distance.
    Of course, it is for most people a better feeling to be the "King of the Hill" but if you are not, for whatever reason, you have to deal with it.
    And also the one who is the "King of the Hill" has his problems...
    The question for everyone is what they do with there power advantage, do they help others with it or do they use it only for themselves?

    You can see the described "problems" as a disadvantage or you can also see it as another aspect of the game where players have to decide if they want to play a challenging game with there achieved character power or use it to have an easy and relaxing time in the game.
    As almost always there is much more to say while I have already written too much...
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  15. #15
    Hopeless Romantic dunklezhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    or just remove Normal / Hard / Elite...Reaper is the new Normal.
    Wow no, no it isn't. It's the new normal for LFMs maybe, which is why I don't bother with the LFM panel - even posting elite with 'not reaper' in the text still results in people joining finding out no you really did in fact mean just elite and then quitting. Or posting for hard and never filling. So yeah. LFM - its the new normal.

    In guild? In static groups? I don't know. Everyone I play with regularly generally wants to just play your basic elite on heroic and hard on epic. Reaper 1-2 and Epic Elite are just... slogs. They're not particularly tougher for the most part, they're just more dull because of the inflated HP. R3 and up was where it started to get actually *tough* in my experience. I have a mighty 1 reaper point after all this time because I just stopped bothering when I realised reaper just wasn't fun (for me). I'd rather have fun than moar power, and I'd certainly rather have fun than moar grind (case in point... I've slotted a sentient gem for laughs, of course. I just ignore the filigrees though, I'm never going to random-drop my way into a full set so... bleh. Not interested in pursuing just for the sake of a bit of power, I'm happy to stop just at adding the personality for fun).
    Last edited by dunklezhan; 04-19-2019 at 04:48 AM.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whisper1 View Post
    So i propose this changes:

    Benefits from reaper points scale with reaper difficulty.
    Nope.
    My take on "the grind": https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6220972

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  17. #17

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    easy answer: reaper tree benefits do not actually unlock until cap.

    So you can earn reaper xp at any level but reap the benefits (forgive pun) if you remain at cap.


    I have been vocally opposed to the trees from their inception—see my horror in those early threads—and nothing has happened that has changed that. However, once you are at cap, the reaper tree growth has some sense to it because your toon is not getting anything out of normal xp (assuming capped destiny). So you run reaper 1-29 in preparation for endgame play but get no benefits until then. This is the sense of lower-level play—preparation for endgame if that is your goal.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    You can't make wide sweeping generalizations.

    Yes, some people claim R1 is easier than elite. IMO, that is because they play casters and replenish their SP.
    But except for that, R1 is not easier than elite.
    I do believe that many things are equal between the two however. But R1 does add things that (besides the lost souls) make it more difficult.

    As for running R1
    R1 is my favorite difficulty, but it has little to do with difficulty level and more to do with rewards.
    I want the favor anyway. And I cannot get reaper xp on elite.
    While the reaper xp is small, it does add up.

    I'm not one of those power-gamers. But I have been playing this game a long time.
    I feel I belong in reapers.

    I'm willing to run lower difficulties with people if they want to. But my goals are once and done each life. Get the favor. Get some reaper xp.
    And I can usually handle it.
    Soooooo R1 for me.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    You can't make wide sweeping generalizations.

    Yes, some people claim R1 is easier than elite. IMO, that is because they play casters and replenish their SP.
    But except for that, R1 is not easier than elite.
    I do believe that many things are equal between the two however. But R1 does add things that (besides the lost souls) make it more difficult.

    As for running R1
    R1 is my favorite difficulty, but it has little to do with difficulty level and more to do with rewards.
    I want the favor anyway. And I cannot get reaper xp on elite.
    While the reaper xp is small, it does add up.

    I'm not one of those power-gamers. But I have been playing this game a long time.
    I feel I belong in reapers.

    I'm willing to run lower difficulties with people if they want to. But my goals are once and done each life. Get the favor. Get some reaper xp.
    And I can usually handle it.
    Soooooo R1 for me.
    Why not add some challenge and play on R2 for example? It is like people who make on Epic Normal while Epic Hard gives better xp and is not actually harder than Epic Normal (anyone notices difference)? But no, LFM is filled with dailies for EN.

  20. #20
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    or just remove Normal / Hard / Elite...Reaper is the new Normal.
    I could get behind this IF instead of being first time bonus for reaper, it was first time bonus for Reaper 1, first time bonus for reaper 2, first time bonus for reaper 3 etc.

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