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  1. #21
    Community Member Bunker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
    that might be it then, I ran it on 3 different capped characters so I could also get the favour on them
    Confirmed that the 3rd completion of Threnal does indeed give the player the option of EVERY named end reward. Must be completed by same character on the same life.

    Other xbows: has anyone made an alchemical lately? I have a great crossbow tier 3 alchemical and am in the process of making a light crossbow. If you need a xbox from levels 20-25, I feel it is a good choice. Not sure of the value vs. time to get ratio, but nice all the same.

    -Bunk
    Mothergoose - Kardinal - Bunks

  2. #22
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    Default Greensteel

    For heroics not even the ratcatcher competes with them once you hit 12. Greensteel is a weapon that most newer players shy away from but trust me if your doing tr's they are imho bis. As I asked earlier, do dual xbows proc in each hand and was rewarded by Steel that yes they do. Thats a lot of dps. At moment im specced fully in inquisitor tree with only first core in mech taken and leading kill count by almost double. Dual radiance xbows have double the chance to proc blind each shot and thats huge in heroics. Yes kill count does not mean anything since who knows if 90% of my kills were steals which with xbows thats easy to do but I have ratcatcher and I can tell you the damage is not even close to the dual radiance fire/good/fire greensteel. Ive always had a gxbow radiance greensteel, but have passed on making a heavy greensteel xbow. Now I wish id made them two lifes back.

    P.s. Make sure your teammates know you are squishy and that you will be taking ALL of the aggro. At lvl 12 you get NHB and trust me, even with diplo as high as can be reached...it will do nothing to keep you alive.
    Last edited by iPuffinstuff; 06-07-2019 at 12:19 PM.

  3. #23
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iPuffinstuff View Post
    Ive always had a gxbow radiance greensteel, but have passed on making a heavy greensteel xbow. Now I wish id made them two lifes back.
    I suspect you have rogue as an underlying class. Without sneak attack, blindness won't do anything for your DPS. For instance, my inquisitive has v.little sneak attack (1 bard 2 art 17 ranger). Things like improved deception and blindness are still useful and desirable, but they're not quite the instant win they are for a rogue.

    BTW, why no rogue? 'Cuz I didn't care enough to buy a TR+1 to get rid of the bard. And, yeah, it doesn't matter how high your diplomacy is or how much distant diversion. You will pull agro. The only things I've found that can keep stuff away in a party are coffee and/or a timmy-tank.

  4. #24
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    I suspect you have rogue as an underlying class. Without sneak attack, blindness won't do anything for your DPS. For instance, my inquisitive has v.little sneak attack (1 bard 2 art 17 ranger). Things like improved deception and blindness are still useful and desirable, but they're not quite the instant win they are for a rogue.
    I disagree.. blindness is a 50% miss chance on enemy attacks, meaning you won't take as much damage & as everyone knows, dead characters don't do DPS - also, even if you don't have sneak attack dice yourself, other party members will benefit from mobs being blind too.

    There's also the very handy thing that against eyeballs, even on legendary elite (& presumably reaper? don't run reaper much), getting a blindness effect on them is an instakill - and a heroic greensteel radiance is the old style effect which only relies on you scoring a crit, it has no internal cooldown & no save

    Having said that, I also really like ooze2 on a repeater & figure it'd be great on a regular xbow for an inquisitive too, gunking the place up with puddings is just fun & surprisingly effective crowd control.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  5. #25
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    Default Misunderstanding

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    I suspect you have rogue as an underlying class. Without sneak attack, blindness won't do anything for your DPS. For instance, my inquisitive has v.little sneak attack (1 bard 2 art 17 ranger). Things like improved deception and blindness are still useful and desirable, but they're not quite the instant win they are for a rogue.

    BTW, why no rogue? 'Cuz I didn't care enough to buy a TR+1 to get rid of the bard. And, yeah, it doesn't matter how high your diplomacy is or how much distant diversion. You will pull agro. The only things I've found that can keep stuff away in a party are coffee and/or a timmy-tank.
    I probably worded that wrong. I wasnt meaning radiance is the be all end all. I meant greensteel as a hole is great for inquisitor. With all the great xbows and repeaters that game out greensteel kind of lost its edge. Even so, gs was still a contender for bis. But now you have two..... Yes weve had two before with melee but offhands never truly procced like they should. Here though we have 100% proc rate. Like another poster said, like pudding?
    I was running madstone crater yesterday on r3 and a teammate asked me what was my bow. After showing him he posted a return of his own. It was also a gs heavy xbow. His was pure dps no radiance. He had 0 rogue. Im also positive the pudding greensteel has no cap or time to summon right? Unlike legendary but thats a lot of hilarity. Ive never made one but I think I will just for the fun of it.

  6. #26
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iPuffinstuff View Post
    I meant greensteel as a hole is great for inquisitor.
    Greensteel a special-case. It's more than 30% lower DPS than Ratcatcher, but the extras it can provide can't be found anywhere else and they can be MUCH nicer than more DPS; eg. radiance for sneak+helpless, salt for CC, and ooze for hilarity (and it actually helps survival and dps, especially with druid PLs).

    However, I'd always want to use Rat and regret every second I felt compelled to pick greensteel. For instance, got a caster doing mass-hold, sleetstorm, or a solid timmy-tank? Great! Time for a greensteel field goal and good riddance.

    I really wish they'd added ANY nice regular xbows, but there are still only two improved profile regular xbows in game: Ratcatcher and Epic Storm. For raw DPS gains, profile stomps out nearly every other consideration for any build that gets it's DPS from a weapon.

    It's also likely why SSG seems so wary of adding improved profile weapons near the cap; every time I look for one for a new build, the ones that turn up are VERY old. It's frustrating as a player and makes the new non-profile weapons feel like junk, but I can see why they're doing it (or rather not doing it).

  7. #27
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    Default Ratcatcher

    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
    With any luck there'll be another 1 or 2 new ones added in the next update, but yeah at the moment your options are pretty limited, though Ratcatcher is a beast - unfortunately, 3 elite runs on a capped toon in the past couple of weeks & still no Ratcatcher in the end list Barovian is a good performer though & since I'm running racial reincarnations on that particular character I've invested in a rad2 light xbow & those things are still very solid.

    The ones you get from eveningstar challenge turn-ins can be another potential option if you get lucky with the effects, and if you can stand the grind the ToEE crafted ones can be good too - best bet IMO is 2 or 3 full run-throughs of part 2 with a group & everyone calls a different element mushroom if you want to make it more bearable.
    I get Rat has a better chance at doing damage but for me that just is not the case. Whenever I use Rat all I get is yellow numbers. Im sure this is due to me not understanding dr but....? With the increased crit range and multiplier rat does crit more, way more but in heroics it seems the procs from barovian or greensteel more than makes up for the damage loss of crits. Am I doing something wrong? I run armor pierce and fort pass yet still I get yellow numbers. When switching to barovian xbow i get the purple bursts and as I said those extra numbers equal out or surpass ratcatchers damage output in heroics. Maybe they dont and im just thinking it does because i see more numbers, ive never tested it.

  8. #28
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iPuffinstuff View Post
    I get Rat has a better chance at doing damage but for me that just is not the case. Whenever I use Rat all I get is yellow numbers. Im sure this is due to me not understanding dr but....? With the increased crit range and multiplier rat does crit more, way more but in heroics it seems the procs from barovian or greensteel more than makes up for the damage loss of crits. Am I doing something wrong? I run armor pierce and fort pass yet still I get yellow numbers. When switching to barovian xbow i get the purple bursts and as I said those extra numbers equal out or surpass ratcatchers damage output in heroics. Maybe they dont and im just thinking it does because i see more numbers, ive never tested it.
    Good tests are hard to come by -- we badly BADLY need a parser. What I currently do is time the solo kill on the Impossible Demands boss. It's has a lot of advantages in ease of access except for one: it's L21. That means you have to play a minimum of 5 levels to get there. You can't just roll up an iconic and stroll out to it.

    For DR, especially in heroics, I ignore it and pay attention to the kill time. Most fights, the DR is just flavor and essentially meaningless. Bypass is definitely not meaningless, though, for crit-based. Anyway, what I found in my kill-time tests was that nothing beat Ratcatcher until ML29 Ravenloft. I was surprised that ML22 TF didn't beat it. I do, however, still carry TF just in case I trip over a fight with non-trivial DR.

    With all that said, I am testing Rat on a mob that can't be blinded or made helpless. Helpless adds +50%. Rat's profile adds at least +30% (simple calc, not detailed). Radiance is a crit-based proc, so that +50% damage is diluted by f(crit-chance, mob hp). Still, I can see how Green can beat Rat on non-boss fights if radiance blindness proc applies pre-damage rather than post-damage or on trash with high HP.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    Good tests are hard to come by -- we badly BADLY need a parser. What I currently do is time the solo kill on the Impossible Demands boss. It's has a lot of advantages in ease of access except for one: it's L21. That means you have to play a minimum of 5 levels to get there. You can't just roll up an iconic and stroll out to it.

    For DR, especially in heroics, I ignore it and pay attention to the kill time. Most fights, the DR is just flavor and essentially meaningless. Bypass is definitely not meaningless, though, for crit-based. Anyway, what I found in my kill-time tests was that nothing beat Ratcatcher until ML29 Ravenloft. I was surprised that ML22 TF didn't beat it. I do, however, still carry TF just in case I trip over a fight with non-trivial DR.

    With all that said, I am testing Rat on a mob that can't be blinded or made helpless. Helpless adds +50%. Rat's profile adds at least +30% (simple calc, not detailed). Radiance is a crit-based proc, so that +50% damage is diluted by f(crit-chance, mob hp). Still, I can see how Green can beat Rat on non-boss fights if radiance blindness proc applies pre-damage rather than post-damage or on trash with high HP.
    The thing about Ratcatcher DPS.... the better your stats are, the stronger it becomes. If you have high extra damage (high int, kta, deadly, insightful, artifact); high seeker, high fort bypass, ratcatcher shines. If your opponent has high fort, high DR, and ratcatcher only hits for piddly damage, a different weapon could be better. If you have access to a lot of sneak attack but you don't have a way how to apply it to mobs, then obviously blindness is an easy fix for that.

  10. #30
    Community Member Jeromio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    Small update. When my inq/xbow char reached 29, I took her out to Impossible Demands to test Nightmother versus Ratcatcher. Night won by a very small margin -- just a couple seconds on the kill. The extra DR break and tiny vampirics further tipped the scale in favor of Nightmother. So, that's what she uses 29-30.

    Finally got all the parts for epic storm (except storm itself). Last part likely has to wait on 20th ADQ run. I'd burn timers to get there if it was possible, but ADQ is bugged, timers don't work on it, and SSG hasn't shown interest in fixing it. So, in 30 days or so I'll post how Epic Storm compares to Ratcatcher.

    Rat should beat dumb Epic Storm, but chatty Epic Storm should beat Rat. If not, well, I guess I farmed a very rare skin upgrade.

    Have you been able to make an epic storm yet and compared it with ratcatcher?
    Proud officer of Spellbinders: http://spellbinders.shivtr.com/
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