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  1. #1
    Community Member Puntos_mx's Avatar
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    Question Help respeccing Drow Bard/Rogue

    Hi!

    I returned after almost 2 years of not playing, and it seems I missed the Bard pass.
    So, I'm planning on respeccing my Bard and setting up a progression for it. I'll use a simple Wooden Heart, and am currently on Lev 5.
    Mostly, I'm looking for feedback on the Enhancements, but I guess some context will also be needed. Soooooo......

    Race: Drow
    Classes: Rogue 1, Bard 4

    Level Order

    1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue . . . . .11. Bard . . . . . 16. Bard
    2. Bard . . . . . .7. Bard. . . . . .12. Bard . . . . . 17. Bard
    3. Bard . . . . . .8. Bard. . . . . .13. Bard . . . . . 18. Bard
    4. Bard . . . . . .9. Bard. . . . . .14. Bard . . . . . 19. Bard
    5. Bard . . . . . 10. Bard. . . . . .15. Bard . . . . . 20. Bard


    Stats

    Dexterity. . . . 20 ~ Putting all increases here
    Charisma. . . . 14-16
    Constitution. . 12-14 ~ I just fed it tomes: +2 Con
    Everything else is up on the air

    Skills

    I plan on following Ellis' Trapper. It looks nice.

    Feats

    Weapon Finesse, SWF, Precision..... and that's as far as I have.

    Spells

    I'll be swapping them all the time, so whatever.
    One or two heals.
    Lots of buffs.
    Some damage/CC.

    Enhancements (80 AP) ~This is mostly what I'm concerned about~

    Swashbuckler (40 AP)
    • Confidence, Swashbuckling, Uncanny Dodge, Panache, Roll with the Punches
      1. Blow by Blow III, On Your Toes III
      2. Deflect Arrows
      3. Swift Strikes, Dexterity I, Dashing Scoundrel, Resonant Arms II
      4. Battering Barrage, Dexterity II, On the Mark III, Slap in the Face
      5. Thread the Needle, Exploit Weakness, Coup de Grace: Melee

    Warchanter (34 AP)
    • Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit, Victory Song
      1. Inspired Bravery III, Rough and Ready III, Poetic Edda III
      2. Arcane Shield III, Words of Encouragement III
      3. Ironskin Chant III, High Spirits II, Obstinance III
      4. Reckless Chant III

    Drow (6 AP)
    • DR I, Dexterity I, DR II, Dexterity II


    Leveling Guide

    1. (bank 4 AP)
    2. Confidence, Blow by Blow III, Skaldic: Constitution, Inspired Bravery III
    3. On Your Toes II, Rough and Ready II
    4. Swashbuckling, On Your Toes III, Weapon Training, Arcane Shield I
    5. Deflect Arrows, Arcane Shield II SR I
    6. Swift Strikes, Dexterity I
    7. Dexterity I, Arcane Shield III, SR II
    8. Uncanny Dodge, Dashing Scoundrel, Song of Heroism, Ironskin I
    9. Resonant Arms I, Ironskin III
    10. Resonant Arms II, Words of Encouragement II
    11. Battering Barrage, Dexterity II
    12. Dexterity II, Words of Encouragement III, Rough and ready III
    13. On the Mark I, High Spirits II
    14. Panache, Slap in the Face, Fighting Spirit, Recklessness I
    15. On the Mark II, Recklessness III
    16. Exploit Weakness, Poetic Edda II
    17. Thread the Needle, Poetic Edda III, Onstinance I
    18. On the Mark III, Obstinance III
    19. Roll With the Punches, Coup the Grace, Victory Song


    Code:
    First draft (I forgot that you can't get Lev 5 Enhancements from 2 tracks)
    
    1. (bank 4 AP)
    2. Confidence, Blow by Blow III, Skaldic: Constitution, Inspired Bravery III
    3. On Your Toes II, Rough and Ready II
    4. Swashbuckling, On Your Toes III, Weapon Training, SR I
    5. Deflect Arrows, Dexterity I
    6. Swift Strikes, Arcane Shield II
    7. Dexterity I, Arcane Shield III, SR II
    8. Uncanny Dodge, Dashing Scoundrel, Song of Heroism, Ironskin I
    9. Resonant Arms I, Ironskin III
    10. Resonant Arms II, Charisma I
    11. Battering Barrage, Rough and Ready III, Words of Encouragement I
    12. Dexterity II, Dexterity II
    13. On the Mark I, Words of Encouragement III
    14. Panache, Slap in the Face, Fighting Spirit, Recklessness I
    15. On the Mark II, Recklessness III
    16. Exploit Weakness, Charisma II
    17. Thread the Needle, Poetic Edda II
    18. On the Mark III, Poetic Edda III, High Spirits I
    19. Resonant Arms III, Chant of Power II
    20. Roll With the Punches, Coup the Grace, Victory Song, Chant of Power III
    So, Enhancement Tree v2.0!
    I took off the Chant of Power (noob mistake). That lowered the points required for Warchanter. I'm still skipping the cold-based Enhancements.
    BUT I find that Poetic Edda and Obstinance feel like padding to just meet the points for Victory Song.
    Drow Enhancements look more organic. Still, further Drow Enhancements would be too weak for Character Levels 19 and 20, so I'll skip those.
    Talking about which, I have 5 points unassigned.... and nothing looks particularly enticing to round out the character. Nope, I don't have Harper not Falconeer.
    And I'm still undecided between DeshingScoundrel/Slap in the Face or swapping that for Arcane Marauder/Loud and Clear....

    So, comments?
    Last edited by Puntos_mx; 04-11-2019 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Enhancement tree V 2.0

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  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I posted a DEX-based drow Swashbuckler here. The fighter splash is optional but the extra feats and defensive stance are really nice to have.

    It's counter-intuitive, but you don't really need so much base CHA on a bard if you're not going caster-specced or Warchanter freeze effects. Whereas higher INT gets you more skill points and (if you have Harper) can boost your melee DPS further with Know the Angles.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Puntos_mx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I posted a DEX-based drow Swashbuckler here. The fighter splash is optional but the extra feats and defensive stance are really nice to have.

    It's counter-intuitive, but you don't really need so much base CHA on a bard if you're not going caster-specced or Warchanter freeze effects. Whereas higher INT gets you more skill points and (if you have Harper) can boost your melee DPS further with Know the Angles.
    Hi, Thank you!

    Yes, I'm aiming for the Cores at 5, so I'd need to skip the Fighter splash in your build.

    Now, I did notice you frontload the Skirmisher, and then start on the Warchanter Enhancements after the Kensei reset by Lev 12.
    Would you reccomend that approach of developing one tree before moving to the second?
    Also, you rush the SR, Dex, Keen senses and Nothing is Hidden to Lev 20, although I find them useful early in the peep's life (I know by heard the location of most traps of Korthos and the Port, but very few starting on the Market). Does it make a difference that close to Epic levels?

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    Weapon Finesse. If you're willing to use Daggers and/or Kukri, this feat can be replaced by a single AP in Assassin.
    Precision. This is mainly an Epic level feat. In heroic levels, you'll rarely have sufficient fortification bypass to do much of anything even with Precision. The +5% accuracy is also not terribly great, generally being the equivalent of +1 or +2 to hit. However, it does become worthwhile with Thread the Needle.
    Dexterity. I have a lot of trouble buying into the notion of a non-Charisma Bard. There just isn't much upside to it while there is tremendous downside.
    Trapping. If you plan on trapping, you'll need a solid starting Intelligence and probably Intelligence tomes to really make it work.

    Swashbuckler Enhancements. Blow by Blow is terrible. En Pointe and Fast Movement are great. On the Mark is terrible.
    Swashbuckler vs. Warchanter. Swashbuckler cores are generally mediocre and Swashbuckler T5 probably isn't all that great for your purposes. Coup de Grace is primarily a Reaper ability that isn't much use outside of very difficult content. The rest of Swashbuckler T5 is nice, but nothing special. More importantly, you can save an enormous number of AP in mediocre enhancements by simply sticking with T3 Swashbuckler.

    Vistani Knife Fighter. This is a universal tree. If you have access to it, then Daggers are probably your best weapon option.

    Third Class. If you're going into Epic levels, it would be common to splash a level or two of FvS (for Divine Presence). This is admittedly less worthwhile on a Dex-based Bard. If you're just sticking with heroic, a few levels of Fighter can make your leveling progression easier.

  5. #5
    Community Member Puntos_mx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    Dexterity. I have a lot of trouble buying into the notion of a non-Charisma Bard. There just isn't much upside to it while there is tremendous downside.
    Hi!
    I always had a problem with non-Cha Bards.... and then we had a deluge of Str-based Barth Thugs..... So I gave up.

    For everything else....
    Nope, no Vistani Tree access here. I find the 1d4 base damage is lowish and named daggers seem.... underwhelming.
    I plan to do epics long enough to TR into something else. I may push Precision to the moment I can get Threading the Needle, then.
    As I aim for T5 Core enhancements, I don't want to multiclass further. And getting a Brd18/Rog1/Somethingelse1 would kill Evasion and reduce Skills available for trapfinding.
    I'll be using this toon mostly to play along with my son (Tempest), so we would be covering each other, and may even pack both hires in case extra firepower is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    Swashbuckler Enhancements. Blow by Blow is terrible. En Pointe and Fast Movement are great. On the Mark is terrible.
    Swashbuckler vs. Warchanter. Swashbuckler cores are generally mediocre and Swashbuckler T5 probably isn't all that great for your purposes. Coup de Grace is primarily a Reaper ability that isn't much use outside of very difficult content. The rest of Swashbuckler T5 is nice, but nothing special. More importantly, you can save an enormous number of AP in mediocre enhancements by simply sticking with T3 Swashbuckler.
    Care to elaborate?
    I find that +3d6 sonic damage solid, and decreasing Threat helps reduce aggro on a weak-ish build. The increased Crit range is a nice addon. Also, I need somehthing down in Tier-1 Enhancements, and the other 3 options don't look very appealing.
    En Pointe is in my wishlist. But I found shinier stuff in higher Tiers. And I ran out of AP.
    On The Mark is terrible? How? I mean, it should stack with Seeker, right?. It translates directly to +9 Damage on a critical hit and +6 on an En Pointe hit (which is almost guaranteed to crit, with that +12 range increase). It's not amazing, but far from terrible in my books.
    Yes, Roll with the Punches is not great. Specially compared to Victory Song or Virtuoso. But the second Will Save is useful to prevent becoming useless on a failed Save. That seems to be its only saving grace, though, as Dodge and Doublestrike mechanics are..... making my head hurt. But I'll skip CdG, then, as I won't be going into Reaper much.

    Thanks for the feedback!

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  6. #6
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puntos_mx View Post
    ... I'll use a simple Wooden Heart, and am currently on Lev 5...
    At only Lvl 5, do you need to respec? You only have 2 Feats - between Fred and simple Enhancement changes (which are relatively cheap at Lvl 5!), are you sure this is not salvageable without burning the Heart'?

    We know where you want to go - what does your current build look like? Stats, skills and your 2 Feats - let's start there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puntos_mx View Post
    Hi! I always had a problem with non-Cha Bards.... and then we had a deluge of Str-based Barth Thugs..... So I gave up.
    Over the history of DDO, the balance between spreading your stats and focusing your stats has shifted back and forth. We're currently in a 'focus your stats' stage - especially given the importance of trance abilities. This makes Strength Bards less viable than they were in the past. It's also worth mentioning that prior to Swashbuckler, you had to be a Strength Bard or you couldn't deal damage.

    But the fact remains that if you don't use Charisma as your primary stat, there isn't much reason to play a Bard. Every key Bard ability - every reason to play a Bard - is Charisma-based.

    I find that +3d6 sonic damage solid, and decreasing Threat helps reduce aggro on a weak-ish build. The increased Crit range is a nice addon. Also, I need somehthing down in Tier-1 Enhancements, and the other 3 options don't look very appealing.
    Reducing aggro is only really worthwhile if you're likely to take aggro. While there are high dps Bard builds, they're almost exclusively endgame builds (and not your particular build). You don't need to reduce threat because your allies will already have it.

    In terms of Blow by Blow, it's not bad in the early levels. But these sorts of attacks rapidly become pointless in most cases because the slight increase in damage they give you on a single attack is swamped by the enormous number of attacks you get during the cooldown period. Admittedly, there isn't much on Swashbuckler T1, but you wouldn't miss Blow by Blow if you took it off your bars at higher levels so you might as well gain some passive benefit.

    On The Mark is terrible? How? I mean, it should stack with Seeker, right?. It translates directly to +9 Damage on a critical hit and +6 on an En Pointe hit (which is almost guaranteed to crit, with that +12 range increase). It's not amazing, but far from terrible in my books.
    It's 6 AP for a 3 AP ability - and it's not a particularly strong 3 AP ability.

    Yes, Roll with the Punches is not great. Specially compared to Victory Song or Virtuoso. But the second Will Save is useful to prevent becoming useless on a failed Save. That seems to be its only saving grace, though, as Dodge and Doublestrike mechanics are..... making my head hurt. But I'll skip CdG, then, as I won't be going into Reaper much.
    Part of the reason that Roll with the Punches isn't all that great is that most Bards use the primary stat (Charisma) for Will saves so they don't fail them except on a 1 anyway. However, getting two Will save rolls isn't that great an ability in the first place. Let's say you have a 50% chance to save. With Slippery Mind, that means you have a 75% chance to save - the equivalent of +5 Will. That's not really all that impressive for a 5th Core ability.

  8. #8
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puntos_mx View Post
    Yes, I'm aiming for the Cores at 5, so I'd need to skip the Fighter splash in your build.
    Not sure what you mean by "the Cores at 5"... you can't mean Bard 3 Core at Level 5, because you have those at Level 4... :?

    If you mean the Bard 18 Cores, you have to weigh those against the +25 PRR (etc. etc.) that Fighter 3 provides. Your call, but +25 PRR is pretty tempting by itself, and the rest (including faster leveling from early Precision) is gravy.

    (You can also grab the Kensai combat boost for 4 AP that adds +8 to hit and damage, which is huge at early levels. Respec back out once it doesn't scale.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    But the fact remains that if you don't use Charisma as your primary stat, there isn't much reason to play a Bard. Every key Bard ability - every reason to play a Bard - is Charisma-based.
    In DDO, there are very few "absolutes" - https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5520367

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    In DDO, there are very few "absolutes" - https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5520367
    I don't remember the history well enough to know if there's some justification for that build. However, in the modern day, it's definitely a "why are you playing Bard?" build - the 15 levels of Bard are just a lodestone on the 5 levels of Ranger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    I don't remember the history well enough to know if there's some justification for that build. However, in the modern day, it's definitely a "why are you playing Bard?" build - the 15 levels of Bard are just a lodestone on the 5 levels of Ranger.
    Until recently*, 15 levels of bard were required for Inspire Excellence, which that build takes. More bard levels also means longer/better Frozen Fury, which it also takes

    * I found out it was "recently", not "currently" when I did a bard life a couple of months ago. Probably less than a year ago?

  11. #11
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    "why are you playing Bard?"
    For the superior spell selection that Bard has over Ranger.

    Or, possibly, for a Bard PL.

    (And to say you did.)

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    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Sorry for the off-topic comment, but may I suggest "Brogue" as the official name for the bard-rogue multiclass?
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

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    Community Member Puntos_mx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    At only Lvl 5, do you need to respec? You only have 2 Feats - between Fred and simple Enhancement changes (which are relatively cheap at Lvl 5!), are you sure this is not salvageable without burning the Heart'?

    We know where you want to go - what does your current build look like? Stats, skills and your 2 Feats - let's start there.
    Why, certainly.
    I simply wanted to find my destination before I started moving towards it.

    Drow - Bard 4, Rogue 1

    Str 10
    Dex 17
    Con 10 (+2 Tomes)
    Int 14
    Wis 8
    Cha 19

    Balance 4
    Bluff 7
    Disable 8
    Haggle 8
    Jump 8
    Open 5
    Perform 8
    Search 5
    Spot 4
    Tumble 4
    UMD 5

    Feats: Improved Feint, Weapon Finesse
    Spells: Meh
    Enhancements: Waiting for a reset.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    If you mean the Bard 18 Cores, you have to weigh those against the +25 PRR (etc. etc.) that Fighter 3 provides. Your call, but +25 PRR is pretty tempting by itself, and the rest (including faster leveling from early Precision) is gravy.
    Certainly other classes do look tempting.
    I'm going for Bard because I love bards. Yes, I'm silly.
    I'm going for Rogue 2 for trapfinding and Evasion.
    Any further splashing is very tempting, but it eats away at the Bard part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    Sorry for the off-topic comment, but may I suggest "Brogue" as the official name for the bard-rogue multiclass?
    I'm all for it.

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  14. #14
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puntos_mx View Post
    Certainly other classes do look tempting.
    I'm going for Bard because I love bards. Yes, I'm silly...
    No, not silly - you are you, not anyone else. So don't let "the general population" tell you what you want, or what to do - you want Bard, stick w/ Bard, 100%. "Fun" is how you define it, not anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puntos_mx View Post
    Str 10
    Dex 17
    Con 10 (+2 Tomes)
    Int 14
    Wis 8
    Cha 19
    Yeah, I'm trying to work with those... and failing. The Str 10 is a little painful (for carrying capacity), but the Con 10 is worse by far. Rule of thumb is always at least 6 points into Con, unless you really know what you're doing (so, for an Elf or Drow, 12 Con minimum).

    As for the Cha 19, if you're not going to be an offensive caster (and hence, worried about your DC's), you can dump Cha quite a bit and do very nicely.

    So, you have to decide if you're (primarily) going to be a Caster, and work on Cha, or (primarily) be Melee, and work on Dex. And either way, let the other one slide some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puntos_mx View Post
    Search 5
    Spot 4
    These are not the skills of a Trapper. Yeah, dealbreaker, agreed, time to respec.

    A Trapper wants to keep the core 3 skills maxed - Spot, Search, and Disable (in that order, if necessary). Those maxed, and decent gear (both skills and stats), and you can trap at-level np.

    You can slide for a level or two just before you take Rogue 2 and then crush the trapping skills (thus saving on cross-class costs), but you want to skimp on Disable - first you must Spot that there's a trap in the area, THEN you must successfully Search for it - both of those are no-roll involved, you either make the DC, or you don't. Only then can you try to Disable it, and you can re-roll if you only miss by -4 or less (so being -2 down on DD isn't a dealbreaker). So Disable is the one to cheat with right before Rogue 2, if you do at all.

    (You can also let Open Lock slide by quite a bit, as it has a d20 added to it. You just have to be prepared to re-roll until you roll high, and accept that (rarely) a "20" won't open every lock in the game.)

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    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    Rule of thumb is always at least 6 points into Con, unless you really know what you're doing (so, for an Elf or Drow, 12 Con minimum).
    I'd say, minimum 12 CON will be quite painful unless a good tome and some gear is involved. Especially for lower hit dice classes like Bard and Rogue. So if the OP is like me, unwilling to invest real money into character power, it'll be an overall much better experience if the starting CON is at least 16 (so 14 on a -2 CON race, but really no reason to do an elven bard other than flavor purposes, IMO).

    I'd also avoid odd numbers, it's a bit of a waste of build points.

    A Trapper wants to keep the core 3 skills maxed - Spot, Search, and Disable (in that order, if necessary). Those maxed, and decent gear (both skills and stats), and you can trap at-level np.

    You can slide for a level or two just before you take Rogue 2 and then crush the trapping skills (thus saving on cross-class costs), but you want to skimp on Disable - first you must Spot that there's a trap in the area, THEN you must successfully Search for it - both of those are no-roll involved, you either make the DC, or you don't. Only then can you try to Disable it, and you can re-roll if you only miss by -4 or less (so being -2 down on DD isn't a dealbreaker).
    This is a bit misleading. Technically you don't HAVE to have spot to find and disable a trap. Search will work even if you don't spot a trap, so if you know where the traps are, you can make do without. Also, spot DCs tend to be quite a bit lower than Search and Disable DCs, so I definitely wouldn't prioritize Spot quite as much as the other two skills.
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    Community Member Puntos_mx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    This is a bit misleading. Technically you don't HAVE to have spot to find and disable a trap. Search will work even if you don't spot a trap, so if you know where the traps are, you can make do without. Also, spot DCs tend to be quite a bit lower than Search and Disable DCs, so I definitely wouldn't prioritize Spot quite as much as the other two skills.
    OTOH, Spot does allow you to see hiding enemies farther away, so keeping it high also helps getting the landing attack on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    I'd also avoid odd numbers, it's a bit of a waste of build points.
    Unless you have every last piece of gear planned out, AND own/create every piece of said gear to bump stats at exactly the right cutpoints, then starting with an odd or even value has the same 50/50% chance to end up even at different levels.

    If you can't start w/ your most important stat "max", start w/ everything you can squeeze into that stat. Between gear and Leveling points, an odd number will reach the next even number ~about~ 2 levels earlier than an even number would. And that's a good thing.

    This is a bit misleading... if you know where the traps are, you can make do without...
    Except in the quests where trap placement is random. Unless you have every possible location memorized - then all you have to do is Search every last one of those, and you're fine.


    @ OP - You joined the Forums in 2017, and say you're coming back after 2 years. You have a Level 5 toon. Altho' those facts are not airtight, I went out on a limb and assumed this was your first life, and you did NOT, in fact, have every trap location in the game memorized. If, in fact, you do, then by all means, ignore Spot. GL w/ that.

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    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    Any newbie with an ounce of sense playing pure Rogue (and wants to Disable Traps) will invest ranks in both: Search and Disable skills. Even the premade Rogue spends 'Skill points' at each level in those two skills. The Rogue receives more Skills and more skill points than any other class those two are 'core skills' if you want to deal with traps. Spot with the 'Trapfinding' Feat will help warn you of impeding Trap danger.

    The Enhancement "Nothing Is Hidden" allows the Character to automatically perform Search checks if their Spot skill is sufficient to spot the trap. Though there's always a huge [Search] penalty, e.g. "Tier I, Nothing is Hidden" Search check occurs at a massive [-12] penalty! You still NEED to meet the actual Search DC, for it to be of any use for revealing the trap in the first place... Nothing Is Hidden; is not something I'd ever choose to spend Action Points on, and I exclusively play pure Rogue Assassins when at Epic.

    The [Spot] and [Search] DCs for Trap Control Panels actually have equal DC values. However, on rare occasions the Spot DC to detect the proximity of an actual "damage area" can be slightly lower (maybe 1 or 2 DC) than the Spot DC that is required for detecting the actual 'Control Panel' itself. You of course will need an adequate Search DC, to "reveal" the Control Panel.

    The generic Disable DC tends to be ~ +10 higher than Search DC but Disable DCs will typically vary a lot more with quests.

    I've done extensive testing on [Spot] and [Search] DCs: https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_informa...pot_and_Search so can make educated guesses on such things. :-)
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 04-13-2019 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Who wants to be there, to sweep the debris. To harness dead horses, to ride in the sun.

  19. #19
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    Except in the quests where trap placement is random. Unless you have every possible location memorized - then all you have to do is Search every last one of those, and you're fine.


    @ OP - You joined the Forums in 2017, and say you're coming back after 2 years. You have a Level 5 toon. Altho' those facts are not airtight, I went out on a limb and assumed this was your first life, and you did NOT, in fact, have every trap location in the game memorized. If, in fact, you do, then by all means, ignore Spot. GL w/ that.
    Thanks for being cheeky (*rolleyes*), but please don't misinterpret what I wrote. I simply pointed out that it's technically possible to find traps without points in spot, because your initial post made it seem like it's mandatory , which is highly misleading. I'm not arguing that Spot has no use.

    I do, however, completely disagree with prioritizing Spot over Search (per your post), since, as I pointed out, in most cases Spot checks are significantly lower than Search checks.

    ______________________

    @Puntos_mx true, but so does Listen or a True Seeing item / spell. Again, I'm not arguing that Spot is useless or should be dumped, but rather that it's secondary.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  20. #20
    Community Member Puntos_mx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Dog View Post
    @ OP - You joined the Forums in 2017, and say you're coming back after 2 years. You have a Level 5 toon. Altho' those facts are not airtight, I went out on a limb and assumed this was your first life, and you did NOT, in fact, have every trap location in the game memorized. If, in fact, you do, then by all means, ignore Spot. GL w/ that.
    Well, I tend to restart too much for my own good.
    I had a previous account. It's lost. My highest toon has 1 TR under its belt.
    So, I know the traps of Korthos by heart. That won't cut the rest of the game, though

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    @Puntos_mx true, but so does Listen or a True Seeing item / spell. Again, I'm not arguing that Spot is useless or should be dumped, but rather that it's secondary.
    Indeed.

    Soooooooooo...... anybody else has something to chime in about my enhancements?

    Cannith Server: Sergy d'Cannith (2nd life, Ftr 8)

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