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  1. #1
    Community Member Rog's Avatar
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    Default Equipment nerf for monks

    Checking out the loot for new content it says monks are allowed to wear the new handwraps only if they give up a glove slot.
    why?why?why?
    there are many great monk builds none so strong to hand cape any monk build.

  2. #2
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    There are a pair of Raid Handwraps (Fetters of the Forgewraith) and a pair of Syranian Handwraps available if you would not like to use the Platinum Knuckles debuting in Sharn There are a grand total of three pairs (two having Heroic variants for a total of 5) appearing in Epics, and you are more than welcome to pick any of them.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  3. #3
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    The wraps have not been shown in their final form yet. As long as they're balanced around the loss of gloves (8 abilities or something), they can be made worth it. But as Lynnabel said, if it falls short, there are other options.

    When it comes to "equipment nerfs" I still wish they nerfed reinforced fists rather than the deletion of a class feature. Hand wraps have an item (reinforced fists) and feat (improved martial arts) tax to reach end game values, and instead game concepts and heroics balance was kicked in the shins for an end game nerf (necessary or not).

    I truly wish the devs would reevaluate the need. It would be nice to have the core concept back, plus not be stuck at 1d3 when actually unarmed, another thing that happened when they deleted unarmed scaling from monk. I'd take the time to show the imbalance in heroic DPS, but that would take many hours to record even a fraction of the options, and there has not been a single dev acknowledgement of posts during the initial discussion, nor any indication of being willing to revisit it. Bah, sorry, it's easy for me to digress on this sore subject, so sorry for going slightly off topic.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  4. #4
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrawingGuy View Post
    I'd take the time to show the imbalance in heroic DPS, but that would take many hours to record even a fraction of the options, and there has not been a single dev acknowledgement of posts during the initial discussion, nor any indication of being willing to revisit it.
    Here you go: Handwraps DPS You just have to adjust the numbers at the top for a per level basis.

    As a side note I used someone elses doc originally and made a slight few changes.

  5. #5
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    There are a pair of Raid Handwraps (Fetters of the Forgewraith) and a pair of Syranian Handwraps available if you would not like to use the Platinum Knuckles debuting in Sharn There are a grand total of three pairs (two having Heroic variants for a total of 5) appearing in Epics, and you are more than welcome to pick any of them.
    Hey when are we going to get some armor with no boot slots? Or belt slot?
    Seriously, just think of all the two gear combos you can double down on?
    Is this idea trending?

    But not so seriously,
    I don't think it's good design
    I've already written those wraps off as a loss
    From the responses on the boards, seems no monk in their right mind is going to use them either
    Good use of dev time!

    And as an aside,
    With Sharn I will have to completely regear
    Ie farm up all the new stuff, run raids for a couple items
    And basically throw away away my ravenloft gear
    That is only a year old?
    Your not giving us choices,
    You're just replacing whole sets
    I guess the choice is I gotta buy Sharn to be cool
    But replacing gear every year?
    It just seems such a waste of accomplishing an end game
    Ya, I get it
    We live in a disposable society
    Same with our computers, cars, significant others
    Can't expect you to buck the trend

    But really, no ones gonna use those wraps
    Vishantii (the bird man)
    Kil (heroic and epic completionist)

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  6. #6
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    That is a very confounding design choice. I guess I can see some logic behind it - gloves/wraps they both go on the hands... but it's going to be a tough sell getting people to use them unless they are stupidly-broken-good. They'll have to be.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

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  7. #7
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    Is this the thread asking for more monk nerfs? Where do I sign?

  8. #8
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    Is this the thread asking for more monk nerfs? Where do I sign?
    Just need to proxy nerf Shintao by making Henshins and Ninjas more viable as 41+ AP builds.

    The current Shintao overpoweredness actually comes outside of Monk, Falconry and Aasimar synergies are super strong.

  9. #9
    Community Member Rog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    There are a pair of Raid Handwraps (Fetters of the Forgewraith) and a pair of Syranian Handwraps available if you would not like to use the Platinum Knuckles debuting in Sharn There are a grand total of three pairs (two having Heroic variants for a total of 5) appearing in Epics, and you are more than welcome to pick any of them.
    first thank you for time and your answer. to be honest if i had my choice i would go for 1 (Tank Focused) - Guardian of the Gates.
    since this fits my monk build but since i am not allowed that since there is no way i can wear heavy armor.
    I am looking at.
    (Melee DPS) - Part of the Family set:
    to do this i will have to give up my glove slot.
    it is my plan to get Raid Handwraps (Fetters of the Forgewraith)
    if this is part of the set bonus i would be really happy.
    if not then the entire dps set bonus is a monk nerf since you have to give up gloves.
    I do not have the big picture for ddo in my head. i will wait and see what happens.
    i been playing my monk since the monk class came out for like years.
    regardless i will still be playing my monk mojo for like years to come.

  10. #10
    Systems Designer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rog View Post
    (Melee DPS) - Part of the Family set:
    to do this i will have to give up my glove slot.
    As a monk you do not have to wear the Handwraps from the set - you can wear the Gloves, Armor(outfit), and Necklace. The Handwraps in that set are a monk-specific alternative. You can absolutely get the set bonus and wear the gloves at the same time. If you want to wear the new Raid wraps, you can do so at the same time you wear gloves.
    Last edited by Lynnabel; 04-11-2019 at 05:50 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    But not so seriously,
    I don't think it's good design
    I've already written those wraps off as a loss
    From the responses on the boards, seems no monk in their right mind is going to use them either
    Good use of dev time!

    And as an aside,
    With Sharn I will have to completely regear
    Ie farm up all the new stuff, run raids for a couple items
    And basically throw away away my ravenloft gear
    That is only a year old?
    Your not giving us choices,
    You're just replacing whole sets
    I guess the choice is I gotta buy Sharn to be cool
    But replacing gear every year?
    It just seems such a waste of accomplishing an end game
    Ya, I get it
    We live in a disposable society
    Same with our computers, cars, significant others
    Can't expect you to buck the trend

    But really, no ones gonna use those wraps
    Your narcissism is at a dangerously high level there. I know this may come as a shock, but the world(and this game) doesnt revolve around you. Just because you dont like something or something isnt the best thing for you personally does not mean it shouldnt be in the game and doesnt mean it is a waste of the devs time. you are one player in the game, there are many many other players here as well. She explained it was to have an option and if you dont like that option you dont have to take it. your complaint ranks up there with going into McDonalds and complaining that a sandwich comes with a topping you dont want, and then when the employee tells you that it can be made without that topping you dont want, you then complain that you shouldnt have to ask for the topping to be removed and they are just wasting their time by having it on there..

    TL;DR act like an adult, options are good things, you dont have to take the option if you dont like it, other people like it



    Lynnabel, I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to players and really appreciate the time you spend engaging with the player base. I also really appreciate the time you are spending working on gear in the game and look forward to having more options on gear in the future when you get around to redoing the old gear! (please get to low end epic gear soon, that stuff is just terrible!)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathmaster35 View Post
    Your narcissism is at a dangerously high level there. I know this may come as a shock, but the world(and this game) doesnt revolve around you. Just because you dont like something or something isnt the best thing for you personally does not mean it shouldnt be in the game and doesnt mean it is a waste of the devs time. you are one player in the game, there are many many other players here as well. She explained it was to have an option and if you dont like that option you dont have to take it. your complaint ranks up there with going into McDonalds and complaining that a sandwich comes with a topping you dont want, and then when the employee tells you that it can be made without that topping you dont want, you then complain that you shouldnt have to ask for the topping to be removed and they are just wasting their time by having it on there..

    TL;DR act like an adult, options are good things, you dont have to take the option if you dont like it, other people like it



    Lynnabel, I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to players and really appreciate the time you spend engaging with the player base. I also really appreciate the time you are spending working on gear in the game and look forward to having more options on gear in the future when you get around to redoing the old gear! (please get to low end epic gear soon, that stuff is just terrible!)
    The issue is, if its going to be an extremely unpopular option that few to no players will use seriously, then why are the devs wasting valuable time and resources on it?

    I keep hearing "SSG is a small outfit, they dont have many people, thats why they cant fix all those old bugs, they just dont have enough time and resources".

    Yet I keep seeing them make changes that literally nobody wants and nobody askes for. The Amber temple change being the most recent example. Literally not a single player wanted it. The time and resources used on that could have been spent fixing some bugs instead, which would have made people happy. It's a total win-win situation...bugs get fixed + customers get happy, money well spent. It's just totally baffling when companies make changes that none of their customers wants...its like if your HR department suddenly decided to issue paycheques in a foreign currency when none of the employees want that. It just makes everyone wonder what they are smoking.

    The smaller the company is, the more critical it is that you are using resources to make stuff that your customers actually want. because you don't have the deep pockets to screw around. Now, IF these handwraps turn out to be a total flop, in the sense that no sane person will use them (like, say, the lost at sea kamas...), how can you possibly justify that...I cant imagine the meeting where something like that gets approved..."hey guys lets make something nobody will want to use" "sweet! budget approved!". It just makes no sense whatsoever.

    Look at the Ravenloft expansion...I can't imagine how much time and money went into making the wilderness, that 99% of players avoid like the plague. All that time and money could have gone towards fixing long standing bugs, revamping older content, etc...countless examples can be found like that throughout DDO. Castle Ravenloft...full of optionals...that nobody wants to do because they give junk loot and minor xp...huge areas that nobody wants to go to because they serve no purpose. Entire second floor of Argynvolst is only used for a single room boss fight. Practically throwing money down the drain. Like buying hundreds of stools for the office that nobody wants to use and which gets shoved into a store room and forgotten.

    Of course nothing is set in stone yet, maybe the handwraps will be good, maybe it won't. But the point is, there is no reason for SSG to be wasting time and money making stuff that nobody wants to use. Make alternate choices that people will want to use, not avoid like the plague.

  13. #13
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathmaster35 View Post
    Your narcissism is at a dangerously high level there. I know this may come as a shock, but the world(and this game) doesnt revolve around you. Just because you dont like something or something isnt the best thing for you personally does not mean it shouldnt be in the game and doesnt mean it is a waste of the devs time. you are one player in the game, there are many many other players here as well. She explained it was to have an option and if you dont like that option you dont have to take it. your complaint ranks up there with going into McDonalds and complaining that a sandwich comes with a topping you dont want, and then when the employee tells you that it can be made without that topping you dont want, you then complain that you shouldnt have to ask for the topping to be removed and they are just wasting their time by having it on there..

    TL;DR act like an adult, options are good things, you dont have to take the option if you dont like it, other people like it



    Lynnabel, I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond to players and really appreciate the time you spend engaging with the player base. I also really appreciate the time you are spending working on gear in the game and look forward to having more options on gear in the future when you get around to redoing the old gear! (please get to low end epic gear soon, that stuff is just terrible!)
    Then you use those wraps,
    And tell me how it turns out for you

    Just expressing my opinion
    Pretty much everyone has commented on them as a bad idea
    Vishantii (the bird man)
    Kil (heroic and epic completionist)

    Sarlona, Heart of Wisdom

  14. #14
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    I agree with Vish, nobody will use those wraps. At least I think nobody. Honestly, he is also right that it does seem alot like every time new shiny gear comes out, its good for a year or so, and then woosh, we are back grinding out new gear. My opinion is that there is plenty of time to test this stuff. If it works, keep as is, if its overpowered, correct before release (I'm looking at you Duality).

    Just my 2 cents

  15. #15
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickodeamous View Post
    I agree with Vish, nobody will use those wraps. At least I think nobody. Honestly, he is also right that it does seem alot like every time new shiny gear comes out, its good for a year or so, and then woosh, we are back grinding out new gear. My opinion is that there is plenty of time to test this stuff. If it works, keep as is, if its overpowered, correct before release (I'm looking at you Duality).

    Just my 2 cents
    Should look at reflection of blackrazor if you think duality is overpowered :P

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post
    Should look at reflection of blackrazor if you think duality is overpowered :P
    Duality used to be fine until the barrage of nerfs to monks. I actually meant, if they did not nerf them and gave us all the current version, odds are we wouldn't care. I got them 2 weeks before the nerf, and it was a hit to my power for sure. I was ok with this, but when they touched our Ws, it was a double whammy. So, my point was that put something out there and leave it the heck alone. lol

  17. #17
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    I actually like the idea of the wraps. They're a flavor idea that makes sense, and I don't think it is a waste of time if they balance them right. The first Lam they were trash, but it isn't too late for them to fix that. I personally see two directions they can take: give them 8 abilities and have them simply be the power of two items in one (preferably with double the augment slots too); or to have them be extra DPS at the cost of the gloves. Though the latter is a dangerous balance game... especially when they already have skewed views of monk DPS.

    Lam 2 should show us soon.
    Pinc Punch - Unarmed Monk (Uber Completionist) // Porc the Orc - Paladin // Thunderborn - Warlock // Imustbe Emo - PewPew Rogue // Aquamine Artifact - Crafting Artificer (shelved)

  18. #18
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    I ran with a guy the other day that said Monks are overpowered and needed nerfs. I said, have you seen the nerfs we have received? (albeit he was also running a monk) He said Sharn would again make us overpowered. I kinda laughed and said that I don't really see much any gear that would do this, in fact, they have these handwraps that don't even let you wear gloves! Just an interesting conversation so thought i'd share.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rog View Post
    Checking out the loot for new content it says monks are allowed to wear the new handwraps only if they give up a glove slot.
    why?why?why?
    there are many great monk builds none so strong to hand cape any monk build.
    Not where gloves? It's a condition to use an item?

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    That is a very confounding design choice. I guess I can see some logic behind it - gloves/wraps they both go on the hands... but it's going to be a tough sell getting people to use them unless they are stupidly-broken-good. They'll have to be.
    Narrator: They are not.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • NEW - Setting Unarmed Strike back to what it was and attacking the real problem: Reinforced Fists items.
    • Fix the flipping non-proficiency penalties for Bear and Wolf wildshapes!
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.
    • Keep Lynnabel on task with updating the remaining legacy named loot to not suck.
    • Tiering the Runearms so that artificers aren’t screwed out of the advantages of Cannith Crafting in Epic levels on their signature item.
    • Finishing the enhancement tree passes (including racial PrE’s) before rolling out yet another DDOStore™ Enhancement Tree.

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